Do Catholics have to pray to Mary?

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I am not posting to convince you. I am posting so readers of the thread will not get the wrongheaded notion that it is somehow acceptable for Catholics to exclude the idea of prayer to Mary out of principle.
 
Oh really…so what do you do at Mass when the Confiteor is prayed? Remain silent until the problematic prayer is over?
 
According to the church we are allowed to make that choice, so I to am posting so that others can see that they have a choice although others may have their opinions to the contrary.
 
The Church does not allow us to ignore a prayer of the Mass because we don’t like it.
 
I pray to God as evidenced in my response. I do not keep silent.
 
Well the Confiteor has a prayer to Mary in it, so you’re praying to Mary.
 
You misunderstand me. I do not say that prayer, instead saying a prayer to God.

That is a choice I am allowed to make and have.
 
This is really an un-Catholic position: rejecting the official prayer of the liturgy out of principle and substituting a private one. It is, to be 100% honest…the essence of Protestantism.
 
I am going to leave this thread now as it is going round and round in circles.

I bid you all fair well.
 
Catholics are required to assist at mass on Sundays and holy days. Mary and the communion of saints are invoked in the penitential rite, the Nicene creed, and the canon of the mass. The whole Church in heaven, earth, and purgatory prays with us at every mass. You cannot separate yourself from the important doctrine of the communion of saints and remain Catholic.
 
Okay guys I think I get the picture. Please no more posts! Let’s give this a rest
 
This came up right after I hit send on my last post, so I am going to respond.

If this is the case, then I guess I should move on and find a different denomination, because if its as you said, I cannot remain Catholic.
 
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To give my take:

I don’t think a Catholic needs to have a private devotion to Mary.

I do think that they should be able to say the confetior during Mass and be able to do whatever penance is given to them - or at least work towards it.

I can understand a convert from a Protestant Church having difficulty with it at first but do not understand a cradle Catholic having such issues., especially with the confetior.
 
KMG said:
Again, the obsession with “requirements.” If one emphasizes over and over the point that one need only do the minimum (which, by the way, is written down nowhere)…well, that’s a pretty impoverished spiritual life.

The point, though, remains the issue of having a problem with praying to Mary. I don’t pray to St Joseph, but I don’t have a PROBLEM praying to St Joseph. This thread has revealed a definite attitude on some persons’ parts of having a problem with praying to Mary, and that is what is frankly not a Catholic position. Because we pray to Mary in the liturgy and not only in private devotion…and if we’re at the point of telling a priest, give me a different penance because I refuse to pray one of the most venerable prayers in Christendom…well…THAT is the real problem.
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Hi all… this has gotten a little snarky.

I’ll offer one last opinion on the subject… First, this should not be a polarizing subject. the idea that, as Catholics, we can outright reject Mary is foreign to Catholicism. It is equally as absurd to say that adhering and giving assent to the Church’s teachings on Mary - Immaculate Conception, Assumption, Divine Motherhood, Perpetual Virginity is offering the minimum. Both of those ideas a pretty short sighted…

During the Mass, we ask Mary, the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to the Lord our God for us. That is part of the public prayer of the Church…asking those people to pray for us to God. I don’t know how anyone could refute that. I also don’t know how anyone can insist that Catholics must add to this with special devotion or additional prayer to… seems a little militant to me.

Further, it seems to me that one can be a perfectly good Catholic by going to Mass, participating in the Mass - which includes praying all the parts with the faithful, following the commandments, engaging in corporal and spiritual works of mercy… loving God above all else and loving neighbor as self… If everyone did that, we would be on the right track. If someone wants to have a special devotion, they are welcome to, but please do not force your special devotion on another person as something they must do… besides being kind of annoying, it is not what the Church teaches.

Pax,
Dan

“God Alone!” - the motto of St. Louis de Montfort.

With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of
God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”. Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had
and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them. - St Louis de Montfort, True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
 
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NeedImprovement said:
“Prayer is a conversation with a friend” ; which concurs in a linear fashion with John 15:15 .

Carrying that thought a step further, prayer with the Blessed Virgin Mary would be a conversation with our Mother.
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I feel uncomfortable thinking of prayer as a conversation with a friend. I have a conversation with my wife, or with my friends over a drink. A conversation with a friend implies a conversation where both parties are on a more or less equal level, it also implies a certain informality.

When I talk to me earthly mother, I am not having a conversation with an equal, I am not having a conversation with a ‘friend’. I may be 55 years old, but my mother is my better, on a different level, and she has authority over me.

If that is my relationship with my earthly mother then how much more is my deference to Mary my heavenly, spiritual mother, the Queen of Heaven, the mother of God?
 
lonegreywolf20 said:
If you tell your priest that you do not pray to Mary and ask for another penance they will give it to you.

Mine did. I could penance without saying one word to Mary.
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It is possible for the sacrament of penance, however the Mass includes such prayers so one cannot properly participate and ignore prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
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Vico said:
It is possible for the sacrament of penance, however the Mass includes such prayers so one cannot properly participate and ignore prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Well to be clear… in the Mass we ask Mary and others to pray for us to God. If that is what you mean, then yes, you can not avoid asking Mary, the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to God. Also in the Creed, we clearly talk about God’s action in the incarnation which clearly involved Mary. But, based on what we actually say, do and mean during Mass, I wouldn’t say that we are praying to Mary during the Mass.

I know that my comment is being a little particular, but it is confusing to me to say we are praying to Mary to pray to God for us… seems much clearer and easy to understand (and accurate using the English language) to say we are asking her and the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to God for us…
 
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godisgood77 said:
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Vico:
It is possible for the sacrament of penance, however the Mass includes such prayers so one cannot properly participate and ignore prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Well to be clear… in the Mass we ask Mary and others to pray for us to God. If that is what you mean, then yes, you can not avoid asking Mary, the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to God. Also in the Creed, we clearly talk about God’s action in the incarnation which clearly involved Mary. But, based on what we actually say, do and mean during Mass, I wouldn’t say that we are praying to Mary during the Mass.

I know that my comment is being a little particular, but it is confusing to me to say we are praying to Mary to pray to God for us… seems much clearer and easy to understand (and accurate using the English language) to say we are asking her and the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to God for us…
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It is called hyperdulia which is not adoration – adoration is reserved for God alone and is termed latria. However, hyperdulia, dulia, and latria are all forms of worship.

Modern Catholic Dictionary, Worship.
Acknowledgment of another’s worth, dignity, or superior position. In religion, worship is given either to God, and then it is adoration, or to the angels and saints, and it is called veneration. Divine worship actually includes three principal acts, namely adoration (or the recognition of God’s infinite perfection), prayer or the asking for divine help, and sacrifice or the offering of something precious to God. Worship as veneration also has three principal forms, whereby the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity, asked to intercede before the divine Majesty, and imitated in their love and service of God.

(Etym. Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth, worth +ship.)
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http://www.therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
 
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Vico said:
Worship as veneration also has three principal forms, whereby the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity, asked to intercede before the divine Majesty, and imitated in their love and service of God.
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I hadn’t heard of veneration as worship before… learn something new everyday!

Veneration isn’t what happens during Mass however; nor is it prayer to Mary or the saints. No doubt, some indulge in those things, but that is not the purpose… now asking saints and Mary to pray for us is is part of the mass for certain. But acts of veneration are not part of the Mass as far as I can tell… do you see acts of veneration in the Mass?

I guess the definition you presented asking Mary and the other saints to pray for us is veneration… but that point doesn’t really change the intention does it?
 
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