Do Catholics really want to be aligned with MAGA?

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Gary1961

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Hi,

I’m brand new to Catholic Answers and the Forums. I listened to @Trent Horn on EWTN (1/21/19) about the controversy surrounding the kids from Covington, Ky. I have a few rhetorical questions I would like to submit, but my real question is do Catholics or the Catholic church really want to be aligned with MAGA and Donald Trump?

First, let me say I am a solid Roman Catholic and am Pro-Life. Politically, I don’t identify with either of the two major political parties as I believe they are both corrupt. When it comes to national politics, I generally vote a third-party line as a way of ‘voting my conscience’. My answer to those who tell me I’m throwing my vote away is that I would rather vote my conscience than vote for the lessor of two evils.

Anyway, my rhetorical questions are in regards to the Covington kids wearing “Make America Great Again” hats. Do they really know and understand what that means?

To “Make America Great Again”…
• Do the Covington kids align themselves with President Trump’s humanitarian views on immigration and human rights abuse when it comes to separating children from their families?

Granted, President Trump ‘claims’ to be Pro-Life and nominated a conservative, pro-life judge to the Supreme Court.

• Do they really believe Mr. Trump is pro-life in his heart given his treatment of women in his private life (sexual assault, abuse, and adultery)?

• Do they realize that he may just be pandering to a voting block as a way to get elected?

I agree abortion is a major offense to God in American society and must be stopped but I have to go back to my original question: Do Catholic’s really want to be aligned with Donald Trump and MAGA?
The intent of this question is not to stir up political rants and debates. I would appreciate thoughts regarding the slippery slope of “voting your conscience” and the realities of politics. Voting for the lessor of two evils is still voting for evil. Where do you draw the line?
 
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The Catholic Church is not to be identified with any political organization or movement. But Catholics themselves–the laity in particular–are called to participate in the political process and if they believe a particular politician’s or political movement’s policies will better serve the common good than another’s, they are free to support it. And since none of us are omniscient as to which policies would be most effective in our particular circumstances, there can be disagreement about this.

So to answer your real question, some do and some don’t.
 
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I agree, the laity is called to be involved and some do and some don’t.

BTW, I most certainly do not, although I am staunchly pro-life and have never voted for a Democratic party presidential candidate and only in 2016 decided to not vote for a GOP presidential candidate.
 
From a political standpoint it doesn’t much matter what’s in somebody’s heart. What matter is their political actions. Do they support abortion or do they support life. Nominating pro-life judges advances the pro-life cause.
 
As does just about any politician in the US over the last 80 years.

I am Catholic, pro-life, and support many of Trump’s plans.

I live in NYS, our Governor, who is Catholic and Democrat just signed a bill to legalize infanticide under the guise of women’s healthcare. He is also living with his girlfriend after he left his wife and family.

Trump and the Republicans do not have the market on immoral behavior.
 
To answer your title question:
I would rather be “aligned” (whatever you mean by that) with making America great again than pulling it down to what the Democrats offer.
 
I think different people have vastly different views of what a MAGA hat stands for.

Some people seem to view it with equal disdain as a swastika. For them, it is a symbol of white supremacy, racism, and every imaginable bad thing.

I very much doubt this is what those Catholic high school students had in mind when they put those hats on. As to why they did exactly, you’d have to ask them. We can only speculate.

But I will note that simply wearing a politicians campaign slogan does not imply that you agree with every single thing the person says or does, nor that you hold him out as some sort of ideal to be imitated. Would we say that someone with a “Yes We Can” bumper sticker is completely aligned with Obama and all of his pro-abortion policies, and that they desire to force nuns to pay for contraception? Hopefully not.
 
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I have a feeling that if the boys were from a school in Kentucky, it may be the first time some of them visited Washington, D.C… What better souvenir to those that “like” the POTUS than a MAGA hat? As Joe mentioned, it doesn’t mean you like everything he stands for. Some would say it could also mean it stands against everything the Democrats stand for. I also agree with Joe that it has become a symbol that is scorned by many in the media on the level of a swastika, or even a confederate flag. That is not a fair assumption to make and only shows the close mindedness of the media.
 
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If Catholics don’t want to be aligned with MAGA, they’re free to not be aligned with MAGA. I know plenty of Catholics who wouldn’t touch MAGA or Trump with a 10-foot pole. To me it’s like when a lot of Catholics I knew back in the day didn’t want to vote for Reagan because they didn’t like his approach to the domestic economy or to nuclear weapons, so they just didn’t vote for him.

Being a Catholic doesn’t mean we get some marching order from on high as to who to vote for. The Church is huge and I guarantee whatever political position you do or don’t take up, you can find other Catholics who agree with it (maybe not in your own parish depending on demographics, but they’re out there).

I really don’t understand why Catholics have so much heartburn over this rather than simply realizing that the Church is huge and encompasses a very wide variety of ideas, positions, priorities.
 
Victoria33 said:
I think Obama is a man of integrity, is basically a good man
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I think so too and I think this of the vast majority of politicians. There are a few exceptions, such as the politician I watched a documentary on last night who was some national politician in Australia who was suspected of murdering people and finally got convicted of a murder and nearly hanged but ended up being imprisoned for life instead and died there. But these are extreme cases.

However, saying that someone is “basically a good man” does not mean they are sinless. There are huge numbers of “basically good” politicians who have committed sexual sins in their life, whether by Catholic standards or even by the standards of the secular world (like they cheated on their wives). And politicians who did borderline shady things while in office because that’s how dirty ol’ politics worked in their day. Politicians aren’t saints. If you think one is then you’re probably just kidding yourself. I don’t throw stones at them because I’ve done my share of bad in my life too.
 
My rule is I vote pro-life.

A few Catholic kids at the March of Life in DC wearing MAGA caps out of a country of 330,000,000 citizens hardly qualifies as Catholics being aligned with MAGA. In fact, the insinuation is absolutely ridiculous. In fact, it seems like mudslinging. I’ve really seen enough of these posts that amounts to card stacking and ignores a lot of other issues.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I think so too and I think this of the vast majority of politicians. There are a few exceptions, such as the politician I watched a documentary on last night who was some national politician in Australia who was suspected of murdering people and finally got convicted of a murder and nearly hanged but ended up being imprisoned for life instead and died there. But these are extreme cases.

However, saying that someone is “basically a good man” does not mean they are sinless. There are huge numbers of “basically good” politicians who have committed sexual sins in their life, whether by Catholic standards or even by the standards of the secular world (like they cheated on their wives). And politicians who did borderline shady things while in office because that’s how dirty ol’ politics worked in their day. Politicians aren’t saints. If you think one is then you’re probably just kidding yourself. I don’t throw stones at them because I’ve done my share of bad in my life too.
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And the flip side is, just for myself, I’m voting for a leader. not sainthood.

You can be a good man but your decisions can have much more disastrous consequences than the so-called sinner.
 
As a disclaimer, I voted for Donald Trump. Primarily because Republicans in general are more friendly toward the Catholic Church (e.g., Republican legislatures are not going to be forcing Catholic hospitals to perform abortions anytime soon) and because of the Supreme Court. I do not agree with everything Trump says or does, or every position of the Republican party platform. At the same time, I am not going to denigrate a Catholic that voted for Hillary Clinton if they voted for her in good conscience. I might challenge their view that Clinton was a better overall choice for her policies than Trump (based on things like support for abortion, hostility of the Democratic party towards religion, etc.), but I am not going to call for their excommunication over it.

On the flip side, I would take more issue with someone with a “Catholics for Choice” bumper sticker than a Clinton/Kaine bumper sticker. And I would ask for the the same respect from Catholics on the other side when it comes to supporting Trump; wearing a MAGA hat does not make you a racist, white supremacist, Nazi, pro-slavery fanatic. If they’re wearing a swastika armband or a white hood, then fine, I’m not going to defend them. Otherwise, then I reserve the right to call any Catholic who supports Hillary Clinton (or the next Democratic presidential candidate) a baby murderer.
 
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HOMM said:
Just playing devil’s advocate:

Isn’t that a bit difficult when some candidates and some parties are anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment?

It leave us in the conundrum of are we pro-life, or just pro-birth; and does the sanctity of human life only apply to some life?

Not an easy situation.
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Yes, it is an easy situation.

The Catholic Church doesn’'t make this distinction That is almost creating one’s own belief system which I am not a part of and only seems to muddle the waters. Comparing 24 men say, executed a year by less than half the states of the US to 1,500,000 abortions a year seems cruel to even consider
 
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Victoria33 said:
Comparing 24 men say, executed a year by less than half the states of the US to 1,500,000 abortions a year seems cruel to even consider
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unless, perhaps, you have a connection with both an unborn child and a convicted killer and sinner being robbed of life, I suppose. not an easy proposition, as I have stated.
 
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The Catholic Church isn’t aligned with any political organization or ideology, but everyone must make up their own minds how to apply the faith.

Regarding president Trumps behavior; principles come before a persons behavior. I would rather have a pig who runs the country according to true principles than a saint who runs it according to bad principles. I don’t care if you think deep down he isn’t prolife, as long as the principles he is guided by as president by good principles.

Regarding supposed humanitarian crimes or whatever, you should be careful trusting the narratives you are presented with.
 
HOMM said:
unless, perhaps, you have a connection with both an unborn child and a convicted killer and sinner being robbed of life, I suppose. not an easy proposition, as I have stated.
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It’s easy for me because I will follow the Catholic catechism… I am not a participant here, to establish my own system of beliefs and what I see as good or bad. If I am confronted with such a dilemma, I will pray about it. We are given guidance on these matters, maybe I would seek to talk to a priest if it really bothered me.

As Babaganoush touched on, I’d say, we have probably had presidents who appear very virtuous but actually did a lot of harm. It’s not easy to establish what is truly good and bad.

I am experiencing close to an internet outage here. Maybe it’s the cold weather, I am having problems posting.
 
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The church has never claimed that all killing is morally evil. There is a just war doctrine, and the church has always taught that a state has the right to kill for the sake of the protection of the society.

What it does claim is that it is always evil to intentionally harm an innocent person. I can’t kill a man who has done no wrong and is not a serious and direct threat to my life. It doesn’t matter what the result is. Even if I were to save ten other people by killing this one man, it would still be evil. Abortion is killing an innocent person. The death penalty isn’t. You could argue that the death penalty isn’t justified under modern circumstances, but it isn’t a knock against being prolife to support it. I tend to oppose the death penalty, because I don’t want any progressive to have the power to take any persons life. They already think they have the right to determine the start of a persons life, I don’t want to give them the idea that they also have the right to determine the end of a persons life.
 
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