Do Catholics still support Trump

[PaulinVA]

Now from his perspective, it is not a “lie” but an innocent form of exaggeration. But the outright contradictions of the truth that have occurred over the course of the last two years tells otherwise.

Yes, it helps us to understand his thinking. Thanks. In his mind he’s not a liar, but he is.

 

[PaulinVA]

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www.cnn.com

Superb Statesman. The. Greatest.

 

[twf]

Boasting of sexually assaulting women, boasting of serial adultery, stating that he’s never asked God for forgiveness, constantly lying and contradicting himself, constantly trashing and insulting anyone who criticizes him on Twitter, promoting the use of intrinsic evil (i.e. torture), etc… these are the marks of a man of God on CAF these days…
And before a Trump supporter jumps in with “no one said he was a man of God…we just like his policies” (that’s the answer I usually get)… please read through all the posts even on this thread alone… without naming names, posting a prayer that all Catholics rise up to defend and honour Trump? Please explain to me how that isn’t a cult of personality.

 

[upant]

that are true

why won’t you define what truth you are using?

General statements about vaugue groups are not

general statements define the group. is the democratic party pro the items above or not? would you say the democratic party is anti-abortion? anti-trans gender, anti-ssm, etc

All things are “allowed”

the church says you can do this. how far you can go is negotiable.

 

[godisgood77]

Now from his perspective, it is not a “lie” but an innocent form of exaggeration. But the outright contradictions of the truth that have occurred over the course of the last two years tells otherwise.

Yes, his ‘truthful hyperbole’ has grown in to gross exaggerations and lies. This style has jumped the shark for those that are not lured in by this cheap approach to persuading people. And it has become dangerous… That fact that we give this dude the platform of most powerful person in the world to lie and grossly exaggerate is unfortunate (to say the least)…

I, for one, want the words of our President to mean something. I want him to be held accountable for what he says he is going to do and HOW he is going to do it… Mr Trump as a civil servant doesn’t seem to get that he works for the American people, not his own personal benefit… not the benefit of his friends and cohorts.

 

[dvdjs]

why won’t you define what truth you are using?

Not sure there is a real point to doing so.
But I would define truth apophatically; it is relatively easy to tell what is not true.

the church says you can do this. how far you can go is negotiable.

Uhhhh…
Where does this idea come from?

 

[guanophore]

Mr Trump as a civil servant doesn’t seem to get that he works for the American people, not his own personal benefit… not the benefit of his friends and cohorts.

People said they wanted a “change” from the Washington lifers and were pleased to have an “outsider”. What they seemed to discount is that he has no concept of civil service. He has never served anyone but himself. When asked how he sacrificed for his country, he said he “built buildings” while others were away serving in the military. What distinguishes him is precisely that he has no concept of working for the people. He firmly believes that what he wants for himself is what is good for the people. And it is, if you are in the top 1% financially.

There was talk about cancelling the meals on wheels program for homebound seniors. It costs about the same as one weekend trip to Mara Lago for him and his large entourage. He has spent about 1/3 of his time in the White House at Trump owned hotels, resorts, and resturants.

 

[PaulinVA]

He firmly believes that what he wants for himself is what is good for the people. And it is, if you are in the top 1% financially.

Welcome to Trumpistan.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He has never served anyone but himself.

Don’t cash your 2018 tax refund check then or, for that matter, your paycheck if it’s bigger than it was in December. We wouldn’t want to give him credit for benefitting you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He firmly believes that what he wants for himself is what is good for the people. And it is, if you are in the top 1% financially.

Don’t cash your 2018 tax refund check then or, for that matter, your paycheck if it’s bigger than it was in December. We wouldn’t want to give him credit for benefitting you.

It’s refreshing to see people refuse the tax benefit they are going to receive because they’re so filled with righteous anger that a few upper middle class people are going to get one too.

 

[PaulinVA]

It’s refreshing to see people refuse the tax benefit they are going to receive because they’re so filled with righteous anger that a few upper middle class people are going to get one too.

A tax cut in an up economy is stupid. S-t-o-o-p-i-d.

1.5 trillion added to the deficit over time. No thank you. If a tax cut is tied to spending cuts, fine. If not, it’s bad fiscal policy.

 

[guanophore]

Don’t cash your 2018 tax refund check then or, for that matter, your paycheck if it’s bigger than it was in December. We wouldn’t want to give him credit for benefitting you.

If there is a refund or a reduction, which I doubt there will be for me, I would be aware that whatever apparent “savings” I might experience will be more than offset by the costs of other things that will no longer be supported, such as services for the indigent and disabled in my family.

It’s refreshing to see people refuse the tax benefit they are going to receive because they’re so filled with righteous anger that a few upper middle class people are going to get one too.

You are making an erroneous assumption here, Ridgerunner. I am not angry, I am sad and disappointed. I am sure, if I was able to pay 35-40% of my income in taxes (because I had a higher income) I would resent giving that much of it to the government. I also don’t begrudge anyone else getting a tax break. I can see how the rich cringe when people talk about “sharing wealth”. I heard a social worker giving a talk to day use this term. It must sound like communism or socialism to those who are at the high income end of the economy.

I have spent my whole life in public service for the indigent and sick. I know first hand that the loss of benefits will result in much suffering and early death for this part of the population. I think that it might do Trump and maybe the rest of the top 1% to spend some time being homeless or without sufficient income to pay for medication, food, heat, clothing, utilities, etc. I am not having “rightous anger” about it, I just think the man has no clue about how people on the other end of the economic scale live.

He said during the campaign

he was going to be “greedy for America”. When did “greed” become a virtue? What does it mean to be “greedy for America”? Does that reflect any of the values of civil service?

 

[Ridgerunner]

A tax cut in an up economy is stupid. S-t-o-o-p-i-d.

1.5 trillion added to the deficit over time. No thank you. If a tax cut is tied to spending cuts, fine. If not, it’s bad fiscal policy.

Watching wages drop year after year without attempting to do anything about it is also stupid.

But is the economy’s ability maximized? I’m inclined to doubt it, in view of the wage stagnation. (Remember Gerald Ford and “stagflation”?) And while $150 billion per year is a lot of money to an individual, but it’s within “guesswork fudging” for, say, the CBO.

But regardless, and realizing the Trump efforts might fail to bring about the desired result, the tax cut for individuals is not the only thing. Nor is the corporate cut. Nor is the easing of regulations. The attempt to bring the economy up is multifaceted.

 

[godisgood77]

eople refuse the tax benefit they are going to receive because they’re so filled with righteous anger that a few upper middle class people are going to get one too.

Honestly, I’d rather not cash it Ridge… I’d rather we rework the Tax Plan to benefit all and not add our debt.

Your say that people are angry because a few middle class people are going to get one too is silly… no one is suggesting that; even remotely. This is not class warefare of the poor vs. the rich… this is anti greed and cronyism

 

[guanophore]

This is not class warefare of the poor vs. the rich

I am not sure this is true. It seems that the war on poverty has become more like a war on the impoverished.

 

[PaulinVA]

But regardless, and realizing the Trump efforts might fail to bring about the desired result, the tax cut for individuals is not the only thing. Nor is the corporate cut. Nor is the easing of regulations. The attempt to bring the economy up is multifaceted.

But it IS up. He should have kept a tax cut in his back pocket in case he needs it next year or the year after.

Meanwhile, my kids are paying for Trump and his friends to get a cut.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My wife is an RN who works with the developmentally disabled. While, with her agency, they are able to support their clients decently (excessively when it comes to medical, but that’s a story all its own) the resources such as SSI are scandalously low.

One of my daughters is an NP who provides medical care (largely psych, but also general practice) to a clientele that is mostly very poor. While the federal and state resources are not great, one thing might actually be instructive. Her agency requires that the clients see her for referral before going to an ER for treatment of anything other than catastrophic conditions. And the state pays her agency well for doing that. Why? Because ER care is so terribly costly to the state through Medicaid, that even very generous payment to her agency for her care is a bargain.

And it does work. Almost always, the clients get better care than they would in the ER, because the qualifications of ER physicians varies tremendously, they know almost nothing about psych, and the likelihood of consistent followup is almost nil. What, if anything, does that tell us? Well, it tells us that medical care for the poor can be a lot cheaper than it is, but the delivery system is flawed.

Trump is now in his second year of administration. There is no certainty that he will not decently address the issues of the poor. But experience has shown that the Dems sure didn’t…not even when they had an overwhelming congressional majority and the white house. They did nothing for the poor. Nothing. Oh, well, they did pass “cash for clunkers” to subsidize people who could afford new cars. But they also destroyed the “clunkers” the poor rely on for transportation.

It’s like Trump said to black voters. What do you have to lose?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Honestly, I’d rather not cash it Ridge

Then don’t cash it. I’m sure going to cash mine. And I’ll either give it to a Catholic charity or spend it on something that supports somebody else’s livelihood. And I won’t lose a minute of sleep over it either.

I really don’t think people realize that almost all of us are going to pay less, and that the reduction to the upper middle class is the smallest reduction of all, percentage-wise.

But I think you need to recognize that you can’t reduce taxes under any plan and not at least risk adding to the debt. Since the Dems will not allow any budget cuts except to defense, it’s a big risk. But in the grand scheme of things $150 billion per year isn’t all that much. Obama gave Iran that much in one planeload.

For myself, I would much rather even see a rich person in America get it than some murdering Mullah in Iran.

But who, among the upper middle class (the truly rich never pay the high end, so no sense discussing them) is really going to get a net benefit? After all, they’re the ones who pay the big end of state taxes and property taxes. ARe they going to really get a net benefit if they get a 2% lower income tax bill, but then can’t deduct that much or more under the new tax bill? I’m not sure they gain at all. They must not or the rich Dems who represent the coasts and Yankeedom wouldn’t be howling about how “unfair” it is for the multi-million dollar homeowners to get smaller tax deductions for their property taxes than they did before.

 

[upant]

The Wall? Senior Church officials has spoken out against it… did they not consider the topic fully

i don’t think they did. is open borders working in europe?

Relative to America paying the most, that is what comes with leadership…

china is the new leader but they will continue to build new coal burning plants until 2030. it is a wealth distribution scheme.

it is relatively easy to tell what is not true

from what standpoint? subjective truth or objective truth

Where does this idea come from?

the ccc. the death penalty should rarely be used. how we define rarely is negotiable. rarely does not mean never.

I’d rather we rework the Tax Plan to benefit all and not add our debt

we have been adding to our debt for years and the middle class has received nothing for it. why is debt only bad when everyone gets a little. when the dems get back in, let them raise the tax on the rich to pay down the debt if trumps plan doesn’t work.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Meanwhile, my kids are paying for Trump and his friends to get a cut.

A stunningly unwarranted assertion.

It could be that at the end of Trump’s term the addition to the deficit might not be a large as Obama’s donation to the billionaire Mullahs in Iran. It might not add at all.

Right now I assume Trump’s “residence” is the white house. After his term or terms, it will be an entire floor in Trump Tower. Imagine what the real and personal state and local property taxes are on that? He probably has enough tax lawyers to minimize taxes on his business even without the tax cut. But he’s not going to escape taxes on his residence, and his maximum deduction for those will be $10,000. I think it’s more likely he’ll lose.

And if your kids’ employment chances improve, they’ll be better off too.

Shouldn’t just assume everything is dark just because your ideology demands it of you. Life might turn out better than your politics assume.