Do Christians and muslims worship same God?

[Crusader13]

I think the “can” vs “will” is where the confusion is coming from.

Is the Church saying they can be saved as a certainty. Meaning, so long as they remain faithful Jews and Muslims, they can be saved, but it’s a matter of how faithful they follow their religion’s teachings?

 

[adf417]

I think the “can” vs “will” is where the confusion is coming from.

Is the Church saying they can be saved as a certainty. Meaning, so long as they remain faithful Jews and Muslims, they can be saved, but it’s a matter of how faithful they follow their religion’s teachings?

You know the church doesn’t even give this certainty to Catholics, right? but of how faithful they follow the call of God to the best of their ability.

 

[adf417]

The Church teaches that Muslims and Jews can be saved without converting to Catholicism. The Church does not teach that they will, but does teach that they can. That is very plain from the quoted text, but also from the other teachings of the Church and from what the Popes have said.

…and, BY VIRTUE OF, they (others as well as us Catholics) will enter heaven through the body of Christ, the church, the one Jesus established, the Catholic Church.

Peace!!!

 

[Crusader13]

You know the church doesn’t even give this certainty to Catholics, right? but of how faithful they follow the call of God to the best of their ability.

Of course, but our faith is dependent upon the TRUTHS that the Catholic Church has upheld and shared throughout it’s entire history. We can’t just pick and chose what to believe and then claim, invincible ignorance because through no fault of our own, we didn’t know the truth.

…and, BY VIRTUE OF, they (others as well as us Catholics) will enter heaven through the body of Christ, the church, the one Jesus established, the Catholic Church.

It’s this statement and others that gives the impression that all faiths / religions will lead to heaven, simply because in the end it was Jesus who was leading them to seek God.

I’m not opposed to the idea of there, being a possibility of non-Catholics being saved outside of the Church, yet these are rare cases and should not be expressed as an alternative to embracing the faith. What I am opposed to, is the idea that the Church has now cast an ecumenical/universal blanket of salvation over every single individual and requirements such as baptism and a correct understanding of faith in Jesus Christ is no longer required.

One cannot claim invincible ignorance simply because they choose not to believe in the requirement of baptism and accepting Jesus Christ as God. Those religions that deny the divinity of Jesus, I feel, don’t fall under the invincible ignorance umbrella, because they are being taught about God for one, and in their teachings they are instructing their believers that the TRUTH, according to what the Catholic Church teaches and other protestant churches who profess an orthodox view of Christianity, are not truths, but errors. So yes they are being taught about God, but with respect to Jesus, they are being taught to outright deny that only through Jesus can we be saved.

We cannot tell people that they don’t need to convert from their faiths, which outright deny Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior and then tell them, to remain in their errors, because they CAN be saved, simply by being faithful to their own teachings and views.

 

[womanatwell]

We cannot tell people that they don’t need to convert from their faiths, which outright deny Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior and then tell them, to remain in their errors, because they CAN be saved, simply by being faithful to their own teachings and views.

I agree. Christ said, But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven (Matthew 10:33, NIV).

It is our responsibility to stand for what is true. People that hear then have free will to choose what they will believe. God alone knows every heart and what opportunity each person has had to know the full truth.

 

[adf417]

One cannot claim invincible ignorance simply because they choose not to believe in the requirement of baptism and accepting Jesus Christ as God.

I agree, the only problem with this is it implies this person who chooses to not believe in Jesus the way we believe, chooses his position after having the kerygma explained perfectly to them.

Im not perfect when i explain the faith to others and i don’t know any human who is. Therefore if a person who is open minded does not accept the faith after we have explained it to them the best we can, is it his fault, our fault, or the Holy Spirit’s fault? It cant be the Holy Spirit. Its not his fault because we have stipulated “with an open mind”, it must be our fault in our imperfect explanations. Therefore, invincible ignorance has as much to do with our explanations and teachings as it does with those who are being taught.

If you explain the faith to an unbeliever and this unbeliever still does not accept the faith can you have complete confidence in yourself you have explained it as perfectly as that person needed it explained? Can you do this every time? If so you must be perfect yourself. If not you may want to allow let them play invincible ignorance card?

Peace!!!

 

[Finn]

As did the chosen people before the incarnation

Chosen people & pre-incarnation being fairly significant distinguishing features.

 

[Crusader13]

I don’t fully agree with your premise in that, since we are all human and flawed, by your logic everybody would have a valid reason for not accepting the truths as we’ve shared them, because anyone can say, well that person wasn’t an official representative of the church, or that person had no degrees to backup up their theology or that person was rude or condescending or ignorant or judgmental, etc etc.

If a person is truly openminded to learning about Catholicism and salvation, I don’t think they could adequately claim, “well John Doe Catholic told me all about Catholicism and I found their arguments wanting.” The burden falls on the individual who is seeking God to make the effort to discern truth from falsehood. If they are willing to put for the effort into studying with the Witnesses, or LDS or even looking into atheism as a way to prove God doesn’t exist, that is an openness and willingness to discover teachings as they pertain to what they are trying to understand. That cannot be mistaken for ignorance.

 

[otjm]

So does Juadaism; what is your point?

 

[adf417]

If a person is truly openminded to learning about Catholicism and salvation, I don’t think they could adequately claim, “well John Doe Catholic told me all about Catholicism and I found their arguments wanting.”

Which is why we have faith in Holy Mother Church and not John Doe Catholic.

The burden falls on the individual who is seeking God to make the effort to discern truth from falsehood.

Yes and no. The burden certainly falls on the seeker but also on the teacher which is why Jesus said “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.” James 3:1

Peace!!!

 

[Eric_Hyom]

The Jews are God’s chosen people, if God has first chosen them, how can we change them? Christians are first chosen by Christ; and in Islam it says, Allah chooses whom he wills.
Did the same God make a mistake when he chose our seemingly diverse paths?
If people have been chosen by the same God, how can we ever change what God has put in place?

 

[adf417]

The Jews are God’s chosen people, if God has first chosen them, how can we change them? Christians are first chosen by Christ; and in Islam it says, Allah chooses whom he wills.
Did the same God make a mistake when he chose our seemingly diverse paths?
If people have been chosen by the same God, how can we ever change what God has put in place?

You are conflating “teaching them” with “changing them”. It is not or job to change them that is up to the Holy Spirit. Our job to baptize them and to teach them to obey everything Jesus commanded.

We, as individuals, all fall short of following Him perfectly and to varying degrees. We say the Trinity cannot be fully understood by man yet we raise our expectation of others to accept it as the truth or else… Why do our expectations of others exceed our own faults and understandings? Why is it we teach our 6 year olds (and adults) about the Trinity and see the deer in the headlight look as work in progress for these young Christian but condemn others to the point of professing they don’t even worship the same God. Most Christians don’t understand the incarnation as fully as Thomas Aquinas and we don’t accuse them of worshiping a different God.

Peace!!!

 

[Odilon]

What does reality say? Mohammad tells us all about his God and how he wants believers to act in this world. Jesus tells us all about God and how we are to act in this world. Do these two men tell us the same thing? Certainly not!

 

[Salibi]

There’s nothing crazy about it. You just misunderstood. He meant that God would guide the God-fearing Muslim to the truth of the Catholic Church.

One can say that Christians have also murdered those who did not believe as they do throughout history.

 

[Babaganoush]

There is only one God and can only be one. So it doesn’t really make sense to say Muslims worship a different god since they are also monotheistic.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

There is only one God and can only be one. So it doesn’t really make sense to say Muslims worship a different god since they are also monotheistic.

This is also my thought. There is only one God. We say we believe this when we say our creeds, so there is no other god that they could be worshipping but just because their worship is focused to the same God it does not mean it is a saving worship. Their understanding or belief of who God is, is what is wrong.

Jesus said He is the only way to the Father and there is no salvation outside the Catholic church.

We need to pray for muslims and all who are outside the Catholic church.

 

[Malcolm]

God is so gracious He might save a person in spite of their wrong beliefs about God but never because of them.

 

[Odilon]

So they will then become Catholic Christians?

As for Christians killing others, some misguided Christian might have done that, but Jesus never said we should have a “Holy War” against unbelievers. We are to love our enemies, not exterminate them.

 

[Odilon]

I agree. God will save those whom He will have mercy on. The good Jew, the good Muslim, or the good Hindu. It’s living a Christlike life is what He sees that will save someone right into heaven.

 

[Odilon]

There is one God and there is one Evil One. The world has the version of God by Mohammad and the world has the version of God by Jesus Christ. I’m going with the belief in the loving God as related by Christ, God our Father in heaven.