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paradoxy
Guest
Are you absolutely certain they weren’t chotki or prayer ropes/beads? They can be similar to rosaries.
Do Eastern Catholics have stations of the cross? rosary? adoration?
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Aramis
Guest
I’ve seen Rosaries used as chotchkis by the RO. Ease of obtaining them.
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Aramis
Guest
Moleben: a non-eucharistic liturgy for a special intention.
Jesus Prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” or “Oh, Lord Jesus, Have Mercy upon me, a sinner.” Used in a manner similarly to the Marian Rosary.
Four Fasts: four periods when eating is reduced, and meat (at the very least) is avoided some days (at least on wednesdays and fridays); Some correspond to the two remaining Roman fasts: Advent (Phillip’s Fast) and Lent (Great Lent).
Akathists: Hymns praising a saint, and teaching what is to be taught about them.
Prayer before the Icons upon entry: It is common to reverence the icon of the feast upon entry, then to go pray before the Icon of Christ, then of the Theotokos.
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Joab_Anias
Guest
What might the special intention be?
I can only think of one time a year when we have a non-eucharistic service.
We were taught this as kids in the parochail school. Never knew of its Eastern origins until about a year ago.
Yes of this I was aware as well.
Yea, we have the litanies and gregorian chant. I acutally had some music on the radio stir my soul a day ago. I was suprised by it as it was modern.
We first acknowlege Christs presence in the tabernacle and offer repentance for our sins upon entering the church, then I often take note of the surroundings in the stations and art as well.
Peace.
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Patchunky
Guest
This isn’t done in the Ruthenian Catholic or Orthodox church, nor the Ukrainian Catholic or Orthodox church and not in the Russian Catholic or Orthodox church.
The only time I’ve seen it done was when some visiting Antiochean converts (not cradle Antiocheans) were visiting an OCA that a friend of mine attends. They went to venerate the ikons on the ikonostas and nearly knocked them over. The ikonostas is free standing and not anchored down. My friend who painted the ikons near had heart failure…
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Aramis
Guest
I’ve seen it done every weekend in a Ruthenian Parish. By myself and half the parish. Many also stop at the icon of Christ’s Body, and reverence that, as well.
I’ve seen it done regularly in Russian Orthodox Parishes in Alaska.
It is not uncommon to place candles in the candlestands while doing so.
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Irish_Melkite
Guest
It’s common in most EO and EC Churches with which I’m familiar, including all the above, as well as the Antiochians and Melkites.
Many years,
Neil
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Daisiegirl
Guest
As a Ukrainian Catholic, I loved having the best of both worlds… it makes me very sad that they have taken the “latinization” from my parish,it’s what I was raised with from birth… now i hop from rite to rite…
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JohnPaulSteve
Guest
Very interesting!!
That’s how I would feel, too. I would want the best of both worlds.
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Woodstock
Guest
I don’t think it is possible to have the “best” of both worlds outside of living one’s tradition in full union with other traditions. Both east and west are full packages and the best comes in the finer points. If you are mixing and matching, you won’t have the opportunity to get deeper in any one tradition.
Some things blend nicely, like pumpkin pie and ice cream, but other things are best appreciated in their own context. I like oatmeal and I like broccoli, but I couldn’t appreciate the best of both at the same time.
Some things blend nicely, like pumpkin pie and ice cream, but other things are best appreciated in their own context. I like oatmeal and I like broccoli, but I couldn’t appreciate the best of both at the same time.
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East_and_West
Guest
So you think a Latin Catholic like myself should drop the “Jesus Prayer”, veneration of Icons, Divine Liturgy of St. John Crysostem, and use of the term theosis?
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wannabee
Guest
NO - certainly not.
BUT the time does come when you realise that your personal praxis is way over 50% Eastern that you should really stop and take account of where you are - and where you feel God is calling you to settle.
This business of the latinisations because of historical events , a nice way to put it I think
] does however put a strain on Parishes.
To my mind the Priest should be doing an incredible amount of teaching - explaining why some things are just not part of our tradition and were brought in. People should not be told " Don’t do it " the reason for tailing off a devotion like the Rosary needs to be explained carefully and sympathetically.
I realise that many folk don’t want to give up the Rosary etc - as has been said time and time again - fine for personal devotion. What about First Communions - still common in some Parishes I know ? Should we still ba having them ? They aren’t really First Communions - the children receive Communion for the first time at Baptism. What they have come to be is a perfect opportunity to lavish presents on the child , and take lots of pics . Grrrrh
BUT the time does come when you realise that your personal praxis is way over 50% Eastern that you should really stop and take account of where you are - and where you feel God is calling you to settle.
This business of the latinisations because of historical events , a nice way to put it I think
] does however put a strain on Parishes.To my mind the Priest should be doing an incredible amount of teaching - explaining why some things are just not part of our tradition and were brought in. People should not be told " Don’t do it " the reason for tailing off a devotion like the Rosary needs to be explained carefully and sympathetically.
I realise that many folk don’t want to give up the Rosary etc - as has been said time and time again - fine for personal devotion. What about First Communions - still common in some Parishes I know ? Should we still ba having them ? They aren’t really First Communions - the children receive Communion for the first time at Baptism. What they have come to be is a perfect opportunity to lavish presents on the child , and take lots of pics . Grrrrh
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
I think we can get too caught up in some of these higher forms… The beauty and call of the East to me is a simplicity of keeping fasts & feasts, praying, recieving the mysteries, and liturgical celebrations. You show me what might be termed a “piously over devotional” babba like mine - replete with her little plastic rosary, a print of the Last Supper in the dining room, and a few sappily sacharine turn-of-the-last-century Italian holy card prints of Our Lady or Saint Francis, I will show you someone who is both eastern and orthodox. It is a prayeful and pius simplicity.
I really can’t criticize the prayerful pious soul who does some mixing and matching in their devotional life.
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
I have to beg - how much are you seeing this where you are at? Certainly it must be rather small and it is an odd holdover.
I was in seminary in Pittsburgh when the directive came down for the ArchD of P. that this was to cease. Parishes that had children who were a few weeks or months or a year away were told “Everyone is making first communion this week…” It caused some consternation in some circles, but it was survived and the praxis is standard.
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JohnPaulSteve
Guest
I don’t think we should straitjacket anyone’s spirituality. It may sound great to say, “Well, if your spirituality is over 50% such and such, then you should delve more deeply into that rather than spreading yourself too thin across both traditions.” But the problem is–we’re human beings, not computers. And human beings have very individual, complex needs, including spiritual needs. So if someone craves both icons and statues–well, why not? At least on the level of personal piety, there should be tremendous latitude. Parish praxis may be another thing altogether, but wrt personal piety–again, it’s like the old Gershwin tune: “No, no, they can’t take that away from me.”
First Communion is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. Some of us Latins even think the wedding-like festivities are excessive. OTOH, parents and assorted relatives love 'em. It gets complicated…
First Communion is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. Some of us Latins even think the wedding-like festivities are excessive. OTOH, parents and assorted relatives love 'em. It gets complicated…
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
I got a similar well considered reply from another onliner that I was discussing the matter with. I think it reasonable and wholly sensible for personal application. Having said that, it is still the pious opinion of one persons world view of prayer, spirituality, East/West sythesis… and it should be understood as just that.
During my time in the Greek Catholic Holy Land (i.e. Pittsburgh) I saw the whole gamut - the “old school” heavily Latinized “High Greek Catholic Slovak Mass” parishes and the parishes so Byzantine the patriarch of Moscow would be jealous…
I am happy with the general tendancies and directives to reclaim the fullness of our Byzantine spiritual heritage… But I can’t deny the simple piety of the “high Greek Catholic” babbas with their rosaries and stations of the cross.
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Daisiegirl
Guest
I am far from being a Babba! 
I sincerely believe that the Blessed Mother would NEVER exclude or prohibit Eastern Catholics from praying Her Holy Rosary! Or, desire that statues be thrown in the trash by Ukrainian Catholic priests, like my former parish priest, who was brain-washed into feeling contempt for latinisation…
Does anyone here truly believe that Heaven is divided into groups and categories, based on tradition???
I sincerely believe that the Blessed Mother would NEVER exclude or prohibit Eastern Catholics from praying Her Holy Rosary! Or, desire that statues be thrown in the trash by Ukrainian Catholic priests, like my former parish priest, who was brain-washed into feeling contempt for latinisation…
Does anyone here truly believe that Heaven is divided into groups and categories, based on tradition???
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Joab_Anias
Guest
Nope
Mat 15:3 But he answering, said to them: Why do you also transgress the commandment of God for your tradition?
Mar 7:9 And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy and vain deceit: according to the tradition of men according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ.
1Pe 1:18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers:
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Woodstock
Guest
If there were two springs which both led to the same underground cavern, both having their own obstacles and requiring their own strengths, and your goal was to get to the cavern, what would be the best way to get there?
You could go down one until you hit something you don’t like or have the strength to face then surface and go down the other, alternating back and forth in this way. You are sure to find plenty of wonders and to grow through the experience, but is that the best course to reach your goal? You might find the practice to be beneficial to you to get you to there, but at some point in time you have to choose one side, to accept its strengths and weaknesses, and to fully submerge yourself into that course of action.
I think anyone who reaches the depths of faith will submerge himself in one tradition and live it to its fullest. Unfortunately for many of us, we never reach those depths.
That’s nice. Your priest believing that the Theotokos would never exclude or prohibit Eastern Catholics from coming to her through their traditional means of molebens, icons, and akathists means he suffered from mind control. If you don’t think heaven is divided by tradition, why do you oppose your priest clinging to the eastern traditions? If it is all equal, what’s the problem?I am far from being a Babba!
I sincerely believe that the Blessed Mother would NEVER exclude or prohibit Eastern Catholics from praying Her Holy Rosary! Or, desire that statues be thrown in the trash by Ukrainian Catholic priests, like my former parish priest, who was brain-washed into feeling contempt for latinisation…
Does anyone here truly believe that Heaven is divided into groups and categories, based on tradition???
You can go to any of dozens of Catholic Churches for rosaries and statues. Why, if it is equal, is it wrong for your priest to provide a place to live the faith with a different expression?
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Daisiegirl
Guest
To ALL my Ukrainian Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ!
“The Rosary is the most beautiful and the richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day.” Pope St Pius X
“The Rosary is the most excellent form of prayer and the most efficacious means of attaining eternal life. It is the remedy for all our evils, the root of all our blessings. There is no more excellent way of praying.” Pope Leo XIII
“Among all theh devotions approved by the Church, none has been so favored by so many miracles as the Rosary devotion.” Pope Pius IX
“The Rosary elevates minds to the truthes revealed by God and shows us Heaven opened. The Virgin Mary herself has insistently recommended this manner of praying. All Graces are conceded to us by God through the hands of Mary.” Pope Pius XI
IMHO, only the Devil would want us to abandon the Rosary.
I often ponder if our UGCC hierarchy has fallen victim to false ecumenism. Anybody else feel this way?
“The Rosary is the most beautiful and the richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day.” Pope St Pius X
“The Rosary is the most excellent form of prayer and the most efficacious means of attaining eternal life. It is the remedy for all our evils, the root of all our blessings. There is no more excellent way of praying.” Pope Leo XIII
“Among all theh devotions approved by the Church, none has been so favored by so many miracles as the Rosary devotion.” Pope Pius IX
“The Rosary elevates minds to the truthes revealed by God and shows us Heaven opened. The Virgin Mary herself has insistently recommended this manner of praying. All Graces are conceded to us by God through the hands of Mary.” Pope Pius XI
IMHO, only the Devil would want us to abandon the Rosary.
I often ponder if our UGCC hierarchy has fallen victim to false ecumenism. Anybody else feel this way?
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