Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

[Frank_Cox]

Hi

Thanks for rephrasing the question rationally.

Regards

Being a monotheist and worshiping the one true God are not at all the same thing. The Egyptians worshiped Ra the sun god as the one true god, at times the Greeks picked one god to worship etc.
Apparently you are confused as to what Christians believe. They do not believe that man became a god as you Imam have deceitfully led most Muslim to believe but that God became a man because He loved us so much He was willing to pay our sin debt.

Christians are monotheists, there is only one God but in 3 persons. This is hard to understand but we are only human.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Your statement that you are a peaceful Muslim is a bit vague and incomplete. Why? The versus in the Quran that preach peace with Christians and Jews were abrogated and replaced with Allah’s command to kill them or convert them. Not to mention the Hadeeths .It is dishonest to not teach Christians that are ignorant of this the truth . A peaceful Muslim is disobeying the moon crescent god Allah.

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.
[33.61] Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.
[5.60] Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan;

Apes and swine are Christians and Jews.

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.​

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

 

[ralphinal]

According to the Bible Jesus Christ is God and the creator of the universe . The Nicene Creed confirms that. Jesus Christ Himself said that He was the only way to the Father and if you rejected Him as God you would die unsaved, spend eternity in hell.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

One must decide to believe God’s word or man’s. The RCC has stated clearly that they trump the Bible.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

Pope Benedict confirms this view enthusiastically.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/in_the_beginning.html

He states original sin is a lie therefore eliminating the need for a savior and rendering Christianity and its scripture of no account, worthless. The Bible claims to have existed in heaven before the world was created, the RCC changes its dogma constantly. Again one must choose, the word of God or the teachings of man.

First, this is not the thread for this kind of stuff. Please start a new thread instead of using one on a different topic.

Second, the Times article that you cite DOES NOT say that the RCC teaches that it trumps the Bible. The article, which is poorly written and misleading, is trying to restate Catholic Teaching that the Bible is not a science book and that Revelation may not say what people want it to say. There is nothing wrong with either point.

Thrid, the article that you cite on the pope is not accurate, either. Original Sin is both the act of Adam and Eve (the first sin) and the State that we are born into. When it refers to the state into which we are born, it is not a sin that we commit but a discription of our fallen nature. At no point has the Pope EVER said that we do not need a savior. On the contrary, he speaks of it often.

Now, if you wish to discuss further, please start a new thread.

 

[Frank_Cox]

First, this is not the thread for this kind of stuff. Please start a new thread instead of using one on a different topic.

Sound like you wish to silence dissent not to debate. What I said was true and relevant to the topic.

Second, the Times article that you cite DOES NOT say that the RCC teaches that it trumps the Bible. The article, which is poorly written and misleading, is trying to restate Catholic Teaching that the Bible is not a science book and that Revelation may not say what people want it to say. There is nothing wrong with either point.

No it blatantly states that part of the Bible, particularly Gen 1-11 are not the true. Science books are out of date before they go to press, God’s word was settled in heaven before the world began.
It i blasphemy to say otherwise.

" But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”."

Jesus Christ quoted Gen 1 and 2 as literal history so I am asked to put the RCC above the word of God.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

I guess you never did or else you prefer teachings of man to the words of our creator.

Thrid, the article that you cite on the pope is not accurate, either. Original Sin is both the act of Adam and Eve (the first sin) and the State that we are born into. When it refers to the state into which we are born, it is not a sin that we commit but a discription of our fallen nature. At no point has the Pope EVER said that we do not need a savior. On the contrary, he speaks of it often.

These are the word of the Pope.
I In the Beginning, 1986, p. 72: “In the Genesis story that we are considering, still a further characteristic of sin is described. Sin is not spoken of in general as an abstract possibility but as a deed, as the sin of a particular person, Adam, who stands at the origin of humankind and with whom the history of sin begins. The account tells us that sin begets sin, and that therefore all the sins of history are interlinked. Theology refers to this state of affairs by the certainly misleading and imprecise term ‘original sin.’”

“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, 1986, p. 50: “All of this is well and good, one might say, but is it not ultimately disproved by our scientific knowledge of how the human being evolved from the animal kingdom?

So the Pope says the Bible is a lie . Jesus Christ is the creator not time and chance , that is atheism. It is relevant that the RCC has decided it is above the word of God. How can they say who the one tue God is? If your authority is the word of God then to say that Muslims who worship the Capricious one -Allah, and you woship the same God then I need to witness to you as you will join the Muslims who do not repent in being cast from the presense of God for all eternity.
Only those who believe Jesus Christ paid fo their sins on the cross and that God raised Him from the dead will be saved.
Muslims learn from the Hadeeths that Jesus never really died and will come back to slit the throats of the Jews and Christians and the Jews who try and escape will hide behind rocks and trees and on that day Allah will give voice to the rocks and trees and they will say, Oh Muslim pursuer, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.
Is that your god?

Now, if you wish to discuss further, please start a new thread.

I can but why? If you are going to claim the church has the power to overrule God then what’s the point? If you worship a Jesus that is coming to slit the throats of Jews and Christians that is your prerogative.

 

[ralphinal]

Sound like you wish to silence dissent not to debate. What I said was true and relevant to the topic.

I’ll explain it later

No it blatantly states that part of the Bible, particularly Gen 1-11 are not the true. Science books are out of date before they go to press, God’s word was settled in heaven before the world began.
It i blasphemy to say otherwise.

" But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”."

Jesus Christ quoted Gen 1 and 2 as literal history so I am asked to put the RCC above the word of God.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

I guess you never did or else you prefer teachings of man to the words of our creator.

First, show me where the Bible existed before earth. Second, the Article is misrepresenting what the Church teaches. SHow me where Jesus said that Genesis is literal history.

These are the word of the Pope.
I In the Beginning, 1986, p. 72: “In the Genesis story that we are considering, still a further characteristic of sin is described. Sin is not spoken of in general as an abstract possibility but as a deed, as the sin of a particular person, Adam, who stands at the origin of humankind and with whom the history of sin begins. The account tells us that sin begets sin, and that therefore all the sins of history are interlinked. Theology refers to this state of affairs by the certainly misleading and imprecise term ‘original sin.’”

“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, 1986, p. 50: “All of this is well and good, one might say, but is it not ultimately disproved by our scientific knowledge of how the human being evolved from the animal kingdom?

Have you even read the works that they are citing?

So the Pope says the Bible is a lie . Jesus Christ is the creator not time and chance , that is atheism. It is relevant that the RCC has decided it is above the word of God. How can they say who the one tue God is? If your authority is the word of God then to say that Muslims who worship the Capricious one -Allah, and you woship the same God then I need to witness to you as you will join the Muslims who do not repent in being cast from the presense of God for all eternity.
Only those who believe Jesus Christ paid fo their sins on the cross and that God raised Him from the dead will be saved.
Muslims learn from the Hadeeths that Jesus never really died and will come back to slit the throats of the Jews and Christians and the Jews who try and escape will hide behind rocks and trees and on that day Allah will give voice to the rocks and trees and they will say, Oh Muslim pursuer, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.
Is that your god?

The Pope never said that the Bible is a lie. You are either intentionally misrepresenting the facts ( lie) or you are ignorent. One is a sin, the other is not. If you really want to learn, I will discuss. If you are pleased to either be a lier or be ignorant, waist someone elses time.

I can but why? If you are going to claim the church has the power to overrule God then what’s the point? If you worship a Jesus that is coming to slit the throats of Jews and Christians that is your prerogative.

The way this forum works, people look at the thread titles and decide if this is a topic of interest. WHen you try to add new topics into the discussion, you miss out on people who may want to talk. Very few posters on here discuss the Muslim/Christian stuff, so this is a very ineffective place to put this.

And, so that there is one less thing that you are ignorant about, I do not hold that the Isa of Islam is the Jesus of Christianity.

 

[Frank_Cox]

Arrogant? A Catholic calling me arrogant ? ROFLUMEB!!!

Why don’t you learn about Islam instead of believing what you are told to? Read the Qu-Ran and the Hadeeths , educate yourself instead of attacking those who have. The Bible is a piece of heaven on earth few Catholics have ever bothered to read.Most that I have met preferred to let the church to think for them. The ex-Catholics I know get absorbed in it.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Jesus Christ knew the Scriptures thoroughly, even to words and verb tenses. He obviously had either memorized vast portions or knew it instinctively: John 7:15.
He held it as infallible.
He believed Scripture was more powerful than His miracles:
Luke 16:29, 31.

The RCC did not exist then so to be a good Catholic you must deny the words of Christ. That is you prerogative.
The Bible has always existed or it is all a lie. This story that the RCC wrote the Bible is absurd.

 

[Frank_Cox]

First, show me where the Bible existed before earth. Second, the Article is misrepresenting what the Church teaches. SHow me where Jesus said that Genesis is literal history.

I am not responsible for you ignorance of scripture.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away

Where do you suppose Christ’s words are written?

How can you claim to be a mature Christian and not know that Genesis is written in historical narrative and Genesis 1-11 is referenced by all the prophets and all the apostles and the Son of God always as literal history? If your authority is the church you may be a Catholic but not a follower of Christ.

He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

The RCC taught that it was literal history until the 19th century so the RCC of today cannot claim to be the same church . God does not change and neither does His word, the RCC changes dogma constantly.

* Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
* Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
* John 8:56–58—Abraham
* Matthew 10:15; 11:23, 24 (Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
* Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
* Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
* John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
* John 3:14—Serpent
* Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
* Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah

He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:

* Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (‘Book of Moses’—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (‘Christ’s Canon’); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (‘The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.’)5

Have you even read the works that they are citing?

The Pope never said that the Bible is a lie. You are either intentionally misrepresenting the facts ( lie) or you are ignorent. One is a sin, the other is not. If you really want to learn, I will discuss. If you are pleased to either be a lier or be ignorant, waist someone elses time.

He said in reference to the creation account in Genesis , and I quote:
“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, 1986, p. 50: “All of this is well and good, one might say, but is it not ultimately disproved by our scientific knowledge of how the human being evolved from the animal kingdom? "

He is an atheist and the True Catholics agree, they cal him a heretic, an anti-Pope. And yes that is saying that the Bible is a pack of lies. The Bible teaches we are a special creation of God and if all it takes is a vague just so story to convince you otherwise you never believed in the first place.
What do you know that I do not? For one thing I know that you cannot spell liar . A lier is someone in a prone position.

The way this forum works, people look at the thread titles and decide if this is a topic of interest. WHen you try to add new topics into the discussion, you miss out on people who may want to talk. Very few posters on here discuss the Muslim/Christian stuff, so this is a very ineffective place to put this.

And you seem a bit disoriented, I did not start this thread and it is about Islam.
Earth calling ,come in please?. The thread is titled " "Re: Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

And, so that there is one less thing that you are ignorant about, I do not hold that the of Islam is the Jesus of Christianity.

Well the RCC claims that the Muslims pray to the same god and they are saved so either you are denying Christ or the Pope. Jesus is God.If you and the Muslims worship the same God you have denied Christ and damned yourself.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When your best argument is to call your opponent names you have lost . Have you ever bothered to read the Vatican 2 ? , I have, it is boring. However when someone told me the RCC taught that there are over 100 anathemas condemning me to hell while claiming Muslims are saved I did not want to believe it. Unlike you I did not call them a liar {lier to you} but asked them to back it up. I was told to read the Vat 2 and see if it reiterated the Canons of Trent, it did. The anathemas are there.

Your church lists over 100 reasons why I should be put to death and sent to hell but I am arrogant? Please be serious!
All that has changed since the Satanic Canons of the Council of Trent were published is that at present the RCC lacks the power to enforce them.

Jesus taught us to love each other, you support this Satanic hatred . You have elevated the church over God. The Jews are the chosen ones , not the Romans . Why would God name His church after a Roman goddess anyway?

 

[Reuben_J]

I am not responsible for you ignorance of scripture.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away

Where do you suppose Christ’s words are written?

How can you claim to be a mature Christian and not know that Genesis is written in historical narrative and Genesis 1-11 is referenced by all the prophets and all the apostles and the Son of God always as literal history? If your authority is the church you may be a Catholic but not a follower of Christ.

He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

The RCC taught that it was literal history until the 19th century so the RCC of today cannot claim to be the same church . God does not change and neither does His word, the RCC changes dogma constantly.

* Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
* Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
* John 8:56–58—Abraham
* Matthew 10:15; 11:23, 24 (Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
* Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
* Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
* John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
* John 3:14—Serpent
* Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
* Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah

He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:

* Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (‘Book of Moses’—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (‘Christ’s Canon’); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (‘The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.’)5

He said in reference to the creation account in Genesis , and I quote:
“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, 1986, p. 50: “All of this is well and good, one might say, but is it not ultimately disproved by our scientific knowledge of how the human being evolved from the animal kingdom? "

He is an atheist and the True Catholics agree, they cal him a heretic, an anti-Pope. And yes that is saying that the Bible is a pack of lies. The Bible teaches we are a special creation of God and if all it takes is a vague just so story to convince you otherwise you never believed in the first place.
What do you know that I do not? For one thing I know that you cannot spell liar . A lier is someone in a prone position.

And you seem a bit disoriented, I did not start this thread and it is about Islam.
Earth calling ,come in please?. The thread is titled " "Re: Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

Well the RCC claims that the Muslims pray to the same god and they are saved so either you are denying Christ or the Pope. Jesus is God.If you and the Muslims worship the same God you have denied Christ and damned yourself.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When your best argument is to call your opponent names you have lost . Have you ever bothered to read the Vatican 2 ? , I have, it is boring. However when someone told me the RCC taught that there are over 100 anathemas condemning me to hell while claiming Muslims are saved I did not want to believe it. Unlike you I did not call them a liar {lier to you} but asked them to back it up. I was told to read the Vat 2 and see if it reiterated the Canons of Trent, it did. The anathemas are there.

Your church lists over 100 reasons why I should be put to death and sent to hell but I am arrogant? Please be serious!
All that has changed since the Satanic Canons of the Council of Trent were published is that at present the RCC lacks the power to enforce them.

Jesus taught us to love each other, you support this Satanic hatred . You have elevated the church over God. The Jews are the chosen ones , not the Romans . Why would God name His church after a Roman goddess anyway?

This thread is nearly one year old. I thought it’s a new one and the title caught my attention but it’s an old, old thread. Why you should dig an old thread to put through your discussion bothers me. You could always start a new one with specific title. Or are you trying to hide behind some facade, afraid to show your true color and intention. If that’s the case, it’s truly an undignified thing to do.

So what’s your problem? As far as I am concerned your posts don’t impress me. There is visibly on your part lack of understanding of the institution that you want to condemn. You would do better to acknowledge factual truth of the Catholic Church even if you don’t agree with them and then start from there. You don’t understand the true church position on Muslims worshipping the same God and I am quite embarrassed to say the least at your seemingly trying to be a smart Joe on topic you don’t have much insight about.

You can profess to be right all the way but I don’t think Catholics are moved by your argument. We have heard more than that and hey, we are still here.

 

[ralphinal]

I am not responsible for you ignorance of scripture.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever.

How do you know that this is not the same Word as is John 1?

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away

It does not say that they were there before the heaven and the earth…

Where do you suppose Christ’s words are written?

I don’t now? Which version of the Bible? Tell me this, when was the New Testement written?

How can you claim to be a mature Christian and not know that Genesis is written in historical narrative and Genesis 1-11 is referenced by all the prophets and all the apostles and the Son of God always as literal history? If your authority is the church you may be a Catholic but not a follower of Christ.

Is it really written as a historical narrative? Can you prove that? By the way, the fact that other Bible figures quote it does not make it history. They quote the psalms, too.

He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Shows that there is an established order to things. This does not prove your point

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Same

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh

Same

Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Same

The RCC taught that it was literal history until the 19th century so the RCC of today cannot claim to be the same church . God does not change and neither does His word, the RCC changes dogma constantly

This statement shows that you have never read any of the early Church fathers. They teach that there is more to it that history. I suggest that you look into it a little.

* Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
* Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
* John 8:56–58—Abraham
* Matthew 10:15; 11:23, 24 (Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
* Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
* Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
* John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
* John 3:14—Serpent
* Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
* Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah

This is why it is difficult to discuss with you. You pull an article from a secular news source and run with it. The Catholic Church HAS NEVER TAUGHT that none of those people existed. You are able to read. PLease pick up a Catechism of the Catholic Church and read it. Also, read the Early Church Fathers, catholic.com, and EWTN.com, then think about that article.

He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:

* Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (‘Book of Moses’—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (‘Christ’s Canon’); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (‘The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.’)5

So? The Catholic Church still calls them the Mosaic books.

He said in reference to the creation account in Genesis , and I quote:
“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, 1986, p. 50: “All of this is well and good, one might say, but is it not ultimately disproved by our scientific knowledge of how the human being evolved from the animal kingdom? "

Did you ever think that the pope might have said more than that?

To be continued…

 

[ralphinal]

Continued…

He is an atheist and the True Catholics agree, they cal him a heretic, an anti-Pope. And yes that is saying that the Bible is a pack of lies. The Bible teaches we are a special creation of God and if all it takes is a vague just so story to convince you otherwise you never believed in the first place.
What do you know that I do not? For one thing I know that you cannot spell liar . A lier is someone in a prone position.

I never said I could spell. In fact, had you been on here longer than a few days before you began your campaign of hate, you would know that. The Pope is not an atheist. There are no “True Catholics” who call him such.

And you seem a bit disoriented, I did not start this thread and it is about Islam.
Earth calling ,come in please?. The thread is titled " "Re: Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

Correct. The teachings on creation by the Catholic Church as spelled out by a newspaper are not about the topic. Neither is the teachings of the pope on original sin. Further, the rantings of a anti-Catholic hater have nothing to do with it, either

Well the RCC claims that the Muslims pray to the same god and they are saved so either you are denying Christ or the Pope. Jesus is God.If you and the Muslims worship the same God you have denied Christ and damned yourself.

Yet again, you misquote the Catholic Church. Where do you get your informaiton? Jack Chick? Hillsboro Baptist? The true teachings of the Catholic Church are easy to find. There is no need to trust in those who are of the devil

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

When your best argument is to call your opponent names you have lost . Have you ever bothered to read the Vatican 2 ?

Yes. As well as many other Church documents

, I have, it is boring. However when someone told me the RCC taught that there are over 100 anathemas condemning me to hell while claiming Muslims are saved I did not want to believe it. Unlike you I did not call them a liar {lier to you} but asked them to back it up. I was told to read the Vat 2 and see if it reiterated the Canons of Trent, it did. The anathemas are there.

Prove it. You cannot. Yes, the anathemas are there for the Protestants who split the Church, but show me that they are still in effect for modern people. Further, show that Muslims are saved.

Actually, just show me where Muslims are saved.

Your church lists over 100 reasons why I should be put to death and sent to hell but I am arrogant? Please be serious!
All that has changed since the Satanic Canons of the Council of Trent were published is that at present the RCC lacks the power to enforce them.

Did I call you arrogant? I am sorry if I did. Now, you call us Satanic

Jesus taught us to love each other, you support this Satanic hatred . You have elevated the church over God. The Jews are the chosen ones , not the Romans . Why would God name His church after a Roman goddess anyway?

Goodness. Show me where we are named after a Roman goddess. That is too much. Catholics do not put the Church over God.

Please tell me where you get this information. Honestly. There are Protestants on here who would refute everything you have stated.

 

[Reuben_J]

Does not reflect highly on his belief or his denomination. If he continues preaching the idea that the CC is Satanic, I can forsee that he won’t be here for long. This is a Catholic forum and using word like that may get himself banished from here at no time.

 

[ralphinal]

Does not reflect highly on his belief or his denomination. If he continues preaching the idea that the CC is Satanic, I can forsee that he won’t be here for long. This is a Catholic forum and using word like that may get himself banished from here at no time.

He really needs to step out from this discussion and open the floor up to his ideas. It would be interesting to see how some of the other Protestants see his posts.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that some of our non-Catholic brethren on here hold advanced degrees and are even clergy in their faiths. I have never seen these people say such. In fact, I have seen them refute a lot of it.

Maybe after he destroys the Catholic Church, he will go after the Anglicans or Lutherans…

Then again, Jesus said that he would never leave us and that the gates of hell will not prevail against us, so who cares what this cat does?

 

[Frank_Cox]

You can profess to be right all the way but I don’t think Catholics are moved by your argument. We have heard more than that and hey, we are still here.

No it is you who profess to be right , I gave you hard data. Catholics prefer ignorance to truth as they don’e bother to read the V2 or the Council of Trent. What a cop out to just say I am right and you are wrong.

From Tent:
But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

In other words it is the death penalty to print or read a Bible written in the original tongue or any translation other than theirs
.
Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,–in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,–whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,–hath held and doth hold; [Page 20] or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.

Catholics killed anyone who dared to question their private interpretation, that is heresy, it was murder, it is Satanic.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

CANON XV.–If any one saith, that the keys are given to the Church, only to loose, not also to bind; and that, therefore, priests act contrary to the purpose of the keys, and contrary to the institution of Christ, when they impose punishments on those who confess; and that it is a fiction, that, after the eternal punishment, has, by virtue of the keys, been removed, there remains for the most part a temporal punishment to be discharged; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that Extreme Unction is not truly and properly a sacrament, instituted by Christ our Lord, and promulgated by the blessed apostle James; but is only a rite received from the Fathers, or a human figment; let him be anathema.

CANON IV.–If any one saith, that the Presbyters of the Church, whom blessed James exhorts to be brought to anoint the sick, are not the priests who have been ordained by a bishop, but the elders in each community, and that for this Cause a priest alone is not the proper minister of Extreme Unction; let him be anathema.

CANON VI.–If any one denieth, either that sacramental confession was instituted, or is necessary to salvation, of divine right; or saith, that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Church hath ever observed from the beginning, and doth observe, is alien from the institution and command of Christ, and is a human invention; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.

CANON V.–If any one saith, that it is an imposture to celebrate masses in honour of the saints, and for obtaining their intercession with God, as the Church intends; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood; or that there is not any power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord, and of forgiving and retaining sins; but only an office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel, or, that those who do not preach are not priests at all; let him be anathema.

Perhaps you can show me where this is in the NT?

 

[ralphinal]

No it is you who profess to be right , I gave you hard data. Catholics prefer ignorance to truth as they don’e bother to read the V2 or the Council of Trent. What a cop out to just say I am right and you are wrong.

From Tent:
But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

In other words it is the death penalty to print or read a Bible written in the original tongue or any translation other than theirs
.
Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,–in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,–whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,–hath held and doth hold; [Page 20] or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.

Catholics killed anyone who dared to question their private interpretation, that is heresy, it was murder, it is Satanic.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

CANON XV.–If any one saith, that the keys are given to the Church, only to loose, not also to bind; and that, therefore, priests act contrary to the purpose of the keys, and contrary to the institution of Christ, when they impose punishments on those who confess; and that it is a fiction, that, after the eternal punishment, has, by virtue of the keys, been removed, there remains for the most part a temporal punishment to be discharged; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that Extreme Unction is not truly and properly a sacrament, instituted by Christ our Lord, and promulgated by the blessed apostle James; but is only a rite received from the Fathers, or a human figment; let him be anathema.

CANON IV.–If any one saith, that the Presbyters of the Church, whom blessed James exhorts to be brought to anoint the sick, are not the priests who have been ordained by a bishop, but the elders in each community, and that for this Cause a priest alone is not the proper minister of Extreme Unction; let him be anathema.

CANON VI.–If any one denieth, either that sacramental confession was instituted, or is necessary to salvation, of divine right; or saith, that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Church hath ever observed from the beginning, and doth observe, is alien from the institution and command of Christ, and is a human invention; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.

CANON V.–If any one saith, that it is an imposture to celebrate masses in honour of the saints, and for obtaining their intercession with God, as the Church intends; let him be anathema.

CANON I.–If any one saith, that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood; or that there is not any power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord, and of forgiving and retaining sins; but only an office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel, or, that those who do not preach are not priests at all; let him be anathema.

Perhaps you can show me where this is in the NT?

Before we continue, perhaps you want to learn what the word “anathema” means. It is NOT a death sentence. It means totally cut off from the Church.

Can you show me where it means death sentence?

 

[ralphinal]

I know. Sad.

 

[wcknight]

Mr Cox seems to be one hard core dyed-in-the wool fanatic. It’s very odd hearing these folks condemn Catholics for not reading scriptures, when we were the ones who authored it (the NT anyway), preserved it throughout the centuries.

I don’t remember any protestant monks or priest copying scriptures for posterity. Ohhh they didn’t exist prior to the 1500’s, that would be impossible, and there are no protestant monks or priests-well maybe a few Anglicans here or there.

Maybe IF the put back the books that they removed, they could get a true picture of what is real and what is not.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Posters such as these give charitable and rational protestants a bad name. I’m sure Catholics are not the only ones offended by this propoganda and hatred.

As a Catholic, I want to offer for those non Catholic Christians here that I do NOT believe all protestants are lumped together with this guy. Extreme, fanatical anti-Catholics seem to have an agenda to set ecumenism back generations. Our Lord prayed for unity among Christians, and I know many protestants and Catholics who make this their prayer as well

As for “debunking” the accusations in this thread…I’ll leave it to those who might have a little more time, as my kiddos are demanding more of my time these days. God bless

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

No it is you who profess to be right , I gave you hard data. Catholics prefer ignorance to truth as they don’e bother to read the V2 or the Council of Trent. What a cop out to just say I am right and you are wrong.

From Tent:
But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

In other words it is the death penalty to print or read a Bible written in the original tongue or any translation other than theirs

Okay, I had to stop here because I couldn’t handle the laughter any more. My tummy hurt.

The death penalty, eh? My dear misguided Frank, what can I say? This is what happens when you: a) don’t understand the text delivered, b) consider the historical context and c) haven’t done your homework.

Anathema in the Catholic Church is “separation” from the Church. It means you can no longer be a member in good standing. Where do you get your definition of anathema that equals the death penalty?

 

[Frank_Cox]

I have yet to meet one I consider a student . On the other hand I know some ex-Catholics who are and ALL ex-Catholics I have met say they were never encouraged to read the Bible and almost never did before they got saved.

Btw, obviously Catholics did not write the entire bible - the OT is essentially for the most part fhe work of the Jewish people. But Catholics DID compile the books that make up the bible and if you are going to attempt to prove those doing the compiling were not Catholic you will be unable to do so.

The RCC did not exist until the 4th century , the False Credetals have been exposed, get over it. The Bible was not written by the RCC at all. You say compile ad write as if they are the same word, that is fallacious. And the scriptures have been retranslated from the original language by non-Catholics so your argument is from ignorance.

Also, you ask us to educate ourselves regarding the Q’uran, yet you elevate the Bible as an uncreated work that has always exsisted to the same position that Muslims place the Bible in. Since there was no Bible as we know it now for the first few centuries of the church were these early Christians not true Christians?

I do not elevate the Bible I simply believe it, you do not. It claims to be the word of God and that was good enough for Jesus who is God .You are more ignorant of Islam that Christianity. They say the evil Jews and Christians changed the Bible.
As we know it? There ae enough commentaries from the second century to recreate the New Testement so you are still dishonestly trying to claim the Romans wrote the Bible, God did that.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You cannot pick and choose what to believe in the Bible and claim the RCC is a Bible believing Church, it is its bitter enemy. It has burnt people alive to force its Satanic interpretation.

There are a number of bibles in use today ,the Catholic version, the version members of the Orthodox church such as my wife use which has some more books in it than either the KJV or the Douay-Rheims and the Ethiopian Orthodox church which agains has more books than all those examples. There are other more translations in use which slip my mind at the moment as I am typing before going to work.

There are also books like the Book of Mormon and the QuRan, I am aware of this, so what? The New Testament was mostly finished by the mid 60’s and Revelation by 90 so these Ethiopian gospels are just as bogus as the Gnostic Gospels. The Maccabees etc are history books, interesting , but not inspired. Of course you claim the Bible is a pack of lies and not inspired anyway so why do you mention that? And the RCC claims it is the original Church despite admitting it made the greatest fraud in world history to try and prove it so do you tell you wife the Greek Orthodox are condemned to hell? Have you read Trent? How does it feel to know your wife will burn in hell ? Or are you one of those Catholics who decides the RCC was not really serious?

If you walk into a Catholic website talking about Satanic councils please don’t expect us to sit passively while you rant!

I am not ranting , I posted the Satanic councils that condemn me and your wife to death and hell, you never bothered to read them. I am right you are wrong is a childish argument.

Why don’t you read the V2 and Trent so you will know the RCC has not only failed to apologize for murdering Christians that disagreed with them but they back the laws used to do that to this day with great enthusiasm. I have no reason to believe they would not start burning us again tomorrow if they could and you would not light the fire .

forerunner.com/chalcedon/X0020_15._Council_of_Trent.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent
Vatican II, Pope John XXIII stated that the precepts of the Council of Trent continue to the modern day, a position that was reaffirmed by Pope Paul VI.

That means they reaffirm the same laws that were used to murder dissenters.

Also from Wiki

Recognized only by Roman Catholic
Constantinople IV (869-870) · Lateran I (1123) · Lateran II (1139) · Lateran III (1179) · Lateran IV (1215) · Lyon I (1245) · Lyon II (1274) · Vienne (1311-1312) · Constance (1414-1418) · Basel-Ferrara-Florence (1431-1445) · Lateran V (1512-1514) · Trent (1545-1563) · Vatican I (1869-1870) · Vatican II (1962-1965)

So the RCC has absolutely condemned you wife to death and hell and you need a Baptist to point that out.

 

[Lujack]

So the RCC has absolutely condemned you wife to death and hell and you need a Baptist to point that out.

Perhaps you should learn what the word anathema means.

 

[Frank_Cox]

Perhaps you should learn what the word anathema means.

I know what it means, I am better educated than you because I think for myself. This is from New Advent-a Catholic source.

“To understand the word anathema”, says Vigouroux, “we should first go back to the real meaning of herem of which it is the equivalent. Herem comes from the word haram, to cut off, to separate, to curse, and indicates that which is cursed and condemned to be cut off or exterminated, whether a person or a thing, and in consequence, that which man is forbidden to make use of.” This is the sense of anathema in the following passage from Deuteronomy 7:26: "Neither shalt thou bring anything of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an anathema." Nations, individuals, animals, and inanimate objects may become anathema, i.e. cursed and devoted to destruction. It was thus that the people inhabiting the Promised Land were anathematized as Moses says (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2): “When . . . the Lord thy God shall have delivered them to thee, thou shalt utterly destroy them.” When a people was anathematized by the Lord, they were to be entirely exterminated. "

Sounds like I am correct and your dear wife is condemned by your church to be entirely exterminated.,.

And you support it, think about it.