Do modern Protestants know what they are protesting?

[dronald]

Purgartory…Trinity…

So what exact words did Jesus say in regards to Purgatory and the Trinity? Besides Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, which is in the Bible.

Does this refer to the written words or spoken words?

He says, “My words will never pass away.” I’m wondering what He said specifically that is not in the Bible?

 

[pilgrim_NL]

From Chapter 3:

 

[pilgrim_NL]

So what exact words did Jesus say in regards to Purgatory and the Trinity? Besides Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, which is in the Bible.

**
He says, “My words will never pass away.” I’m wondering what He said specifically that is not in the Bible?**

Yeah me too!!

 

[pablope]

So what exact words did Jesus say in regards to Purgatory and the Trinity? Besides Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, which is in the Bible.

He says, “My words will never pass away.” I’m wondering what He said specifically that is not in the Bible?

The…common teaching, common life, and common worship of the Church, since Pentecost.

What He said or instructed the Apostles is contained in the way the Church has always taught, has lived and worshipped.

 

[pilgrim_NL]

As the passage says…know from whom you learned…trace it to the Apostles.

 

[pilgrim_NL]

The…common teaching, common life, and common worship of the Church, since Pentecost.

What He said or instructed the Apostles is contained in the way the Church has always taught, has lived and worshipped.

Isn’t the common teaching the same as what we find in the Gospels? And if not, do you have some examples?

Greetings

 

[pablope]

pablope;12338139:

Again, from Chapter 3:

The Gospels, then, are incomplete, and fragmentary, giving us certainly the most important things to know about Our Saviour’s earthly life, but still not telling us all we might know, or much we do know in fact now and understand better, through the teaching of the Catholic Church, which has preserved traditions handed down since the time of the Apostles, from one generation to another. These Gospels were read, as they are now among Catholics, at the gatherings of the Christians in the earliest days on the Sundays—not to set forth a scheme of doctrine that they knew already, but to animate their courage, to excite their love and devotion to Jesus Christ, and impel them to imitate the example of that Beloved Master, Whose sayings and doings were read aloud in their ears.

What specific tradtions is the author refering to? What are they?

Sacred Tradition: mark-shea.com/tradition.html

Sacred Tradition is the living and growing truth of Christ contained, not only in Scripture, but in the common teaching, common life, and common worship of the Church.

 

[pilgrim_NL]

pilgrim_NL;12338158:

Sacred Tradition: mark-shea.com/tradition.html

Sacred Tradition is the living and growing truth of Christ contained, not only in Scripture, but in the common teaching, common life, and common worship of the Church.

Thnx!

 

[dronald]

The…common teaching, common life, and common worship of the Church, since Pentecost.

What He said or instructed the Apostles is contained in the way the Church has always taught, has lived and worshipped.

So what did He say exactly?

 

[pablope]

So what did He say exactly?

If I knew, I would have told you…but I trust the CC teaches according to what was handed down from Christ to the Apostles to us today.

calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/
Aquinas believed that faith in Christ necessarily involves trusting the Church, because Christ cannot fail to guide and protect the development of His Church.

I came to see that faith in Christ is not something to be exercised invisibly, from my heart directly to Christ’s throne, as though Christ had not appointed an enduring line of shepherds. Inward faith was to be exercised outwardly, by trusting Christ through those shepherds Christ sent and established. Jesus had said, “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”29

This is the sacramental conception of faith, not simply belief that, but belief through. This is the sacramental conception of the Church, the basis for the priest speaking in persona Christi.

But upon coming to understand that Christ founded a visible hierarchically organized Body of which He is the Head and which He promised to preserve, I came to see that the way to trust Christ is to trust His Church of which He is the Head, just as the early Christians trusted Christ precisely by trusting the teaching of the Apostles. Trusting the Apostles did not subtract from (or compete with) their trust in Christ. On the contrary, when Jesus tells the Apostle Thomas, “Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed,”30 He implies that greater faith is required and shown in those who trust in Christ not by seeing Him, but by believing the testimony of the Apostles. Jesus refers to this way of believing when He prays, “I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.”*

 

[pablope]

pablope;12338139:

Can all roman teachings be traced to the apostles? Can you help me with that if I look up some things which I am struggeling with (in private message)?

Yes, And yes, you can send me a private message. I will be glad to help you.

 

[dronald]

If I knew, I would have told you…but I trust the CC teaches according to what was handed down from Christ to the Apostles to us today.

calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/
Aquinas believed that faith in Christ necessarily involves trusting the Church, because Christ cannot fail to guide and protect the development of His Church.

I came to see that faith in Christ is not something to be exercised invisibly, from my heart directly to Christ’s throne, as though Christ had not appointed an enduring line of shepherds. Inward faith was to be exercised outwardly, by trusting Christ through those shepherds Christ sent and established. Jesus had said, “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”29

This is the sacramental conception of faith, not simply belief that, but belief through. This is the sacramental conception of the Church, the basis for the priest speaking in persona Christi.

But upon coming to understand that Christ founded a visible hierarchically organized Body of which He is the Head and which He promised to preserve, I came to see that the way to trust Christ is to trust His Church of which He is the Head, just as the early Christians trusted Christ precisely by trusting the teaching of the Apostles. Trusting the Apostles did not subtract from (or compete with) their trust in Christ. On the contrary, when Jesus tells the Apostle Thomas, “Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed,”30 He implies that greater faith is required and shown in those who trust in Christ not by seeing Him, but by believing the testimony of the Apostles. Jesus refers to this way of believing when He prays, “I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.”*

Yes, but likewise Jesus said that whoever is not against Him is with Him. And I think that’s an issue that Jesus says, “my words will never pass away” and yet all of His words have passed away save what the Bible says.

 

[Sy_Noe]

The offerings in masses are completely optional anyway. You might feel under pressure to pay but once or twice I’ve arrived at Mass realising to my horror that I forgot to bring any money. When it came to the offering the people collecting(I was standing at the back because the church was full) were really good in that they didn’t stop so no one really noticed.

99% of the time I do put in money, of course.

The offertory collections during Mass, yes. But I’ve gone to a Catholic parish office on behalf of an acquaintance to pay for a Mass intention with X number of dollars in hand (a double digit number) and was told they require a higher minimum than had been given to me. So I had no choice but to add out of my own pocket to the amount given me in order to schedule the Mass at that parish. Which is what I ended up doing but could have kicked myself for doing so. Or my other option would have been to try another parish a bit further away. I did discover later its minimum charge was less and in fact was exactly the amount I originally had been given by my acquaintance to use for the intention. But by then it was too late. I had already doled out more to schedule the Mass at the first parish. So if I practiced Catholicism I only know I personally would protest that first parish and I personally would not attend Mass there.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Modern protestants or non Catholic Christians as well as us unfaithful Baptized or Confirmed Catholics see Christ’s Church differently than do faithful Catholics. We instead believe it to be the entire body of believers not solely the Catholic Church. Despite our differences we strive to live our lives and to worship to the best of our understanding and ability. No different than those who believe in the Catholic faith strive to live their lives to the best of their understanding and faith. It could be said Christ may need from time to time to reform or to change course to keep Hell’s gates from prevailing. And in faith we walk. But all of us, from Protestant to Orthodox to Anglican to Catholics in unity with Rome, are united in Christ. And at least from my vantage point that’s one most important ingredient to the cake. It’s like the flour. The rest is different flavors of filling or frosting.

 

[pablope]

Yes, but likewise Jesus said that whoever is not against Him is with Him. And I think that’s an issue that Jesus says, “my words will never pass away” and yet all of His words have passed away save what the Bible says.

]“my words will never pass away”…could also mean the Church, through the Church…His words will never pass away, as the Church will continue proclaiming His word.

And do you think when the Church speaks on faith and morals…it is not Christ who is speaking, through the Church?

 

[JonNC]

I am sorry for mispresenting you then. I see you are a Lutheran. Do Lutherans believe in seven sacraments? And if not, why not?

Lutherans, generally, express as sacrament Baptism and the Eucharist. We also view Confession/Holy absolution either as a sacrament itself, or as an extension of the sacrament of Baptism. Established by Christ, with the promise of forgiveness of sins.

That doesn’t mean we ignore or neglect the other four. Our confessions tell us they are important and should not be neglected.

Jon

PS: I didn’t take what you wrote as misrepresentation, but instead a misreading. I could have been clearer. No harm done.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Modern protestants or non Catholic Christians as well as us unfaithful Baptized or Confirmed Catholics see Christ’s Church differently than do faithful Catholics. We instead believe it to be the entire body of believers not solely the Catholic Church.

Believers … in what?
If Jesus, wouldn’t that mean in ALL He taught and did? Not just some of it? Not just the part that was written down and codified and protected (by the Catholic Church, BTW) as what we call the NT?

Despite our differences we strive to live our lives and to worship to the best of our understanding and ability.

To the best of your own personal understanding and ability? Or, should we also trust those on whom Jesus placed the authority to pass on HIS understanding?

It could be said Christ may need from time to time to reform or to change course to keep Hell’s gates from prevailing.

Huh? Christ needs to reform?

But all of us, from Protestant to Orthodox to Anglican to Catholics in unity with Rome, are united in Christ.

But remember, this is the very same Christ who prayed that we be united … in the truth.
Not SOME of the truth.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Believers … in what?
If Jesus, wouldn’t that mean in ALL He taught and did? Not just some of it? Not just the part that was written down and codified and protected (by the Catholic Church, BTW) as what we call the NT?

To the best of your own personal understanding and ability? Or, should we also trust those on whom Jesus placed the authority to pass on HIS understanding?

Huh? Christ needs to reform?

Sorry for the confusion. I can see why you were confused. I didn’t word that the best.

No. To reform if human leaders stray from Christ’s intent.

The rest of your post I won’t bother responding to though because those points are merely matters of faith.

 

[PRmerger]

The question asked if we know what we are protesting, and we’re not protesting anything as you’ve admitted.

Protestant is a label, just like Roman Catholic is a label falsely attributed to all of Catholicism. The first reformers never sought to be called “protestant” or much less “lutheran” so it’s odd to ask us if we know what we’re protesting.

There are indeed Catholics who are Roman. I am one of them.

Are there modern day Protestants who are protesting?

 

[PRmerger]

What do you think? I think it is safe to say that Jesus intended the apostles writings that we have today.

That would be a tradition, then, that you’ve embraced, right?

Unless you can find a Bible verse that says that Jesus intended the apostle writings that we have today.

Please cite the book, chapter and verse that says this.