Do mormons really believe this?

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Jo's_Dad:
No, not all members limit themselves in such a manner, but the church does teach this. The problem with intimate relations in any church though, is getting the members to actually practice what the church teaches. 🙂
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Can you show a official LDS statement about this? Especially with regards to Casen’s earlier post…

*Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife. *
 
Chris-WA said: Important to note the difference here between Catholic and Mormon beliefs. Catholics believe angels are a different race of beings than men. We are not resurrected as angels, nor will we ever be angels. Mormons believe the angels are resurrected humans (such as Moroni), or those in heaven who never got a body (such as Satan).

Correct, I was only trying to clarify the LDS position; not suggesting that that the Catholic position is the same.

RE: *May not be “official doctrine,” but what this meant certainly was taught quite plainly by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. They certainly regarded eternal progression as something far more than what Catholics call sainthood. *

This may be true. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young speculated on many things without receiving revelations on those things and hence they are not canonized doctrine. LDS do not believe prophets are perfect or infallible. Only Jesus was perfect. Hence we occasionally see Biblical prophets making mistakes and being chastened by God in the scriptures (Moses, Jonah, Peter, etc.). But revelations from God through our prophets are compiled in our Doctrine and Covenants and considered canonized doctrine. For that reason you won’t hear an LDS Sunday school lesson on Godhood and the specifics of what that means unless the teacher has moved beyond the approved course material. I’ve never once heard this topic come up in any church meeting I’ve ever attended and yet it seems to be a favorite topic of detractors. Considering the frequency that this topic comes up on the internet you’d think we just sit around discussing what we’ll do when we get our own planet to run, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
 
I’ll re-post this for late comers:

Here’s the closest thing I could find to a clear semi-official statement:

Latter-day Saints believe that God achieved his exalted rank by progressing much as man must progress and that God is a perfected and exalted man.abstracted from K. Codell Carter, “Godhood,” in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 2:553–55.

source: ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=178

So, it’s not “optional” or merely “speculative” Mormon belief.
 
Jo's_Dad:
the LDS chuch teaches that such acts of intimacy should be reserved for procreation purposes only.
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This was true until the 1960’s when contraception became an accepted practice for LDS.
 
This may be true. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young speculated on many things without receiving revelations on those things and hence they are not canonized doctrine. LDS do not believe prophets are perfect or infallible. Only Jesus was perfect. Hence we occasionally see Biblical prophets making mistakes and being chastened by God in the scriptures (Moses, Jonah, Peter, etc.). But revelations from God through our prophets are compiled in our Doctrine and Covenants and considered canonized doctrine. For that reason you won’t hear an LDS Sunday school lesson on Godhood and the specifics of what that means unless the teacher has moved beyond the approved course material. I’ve never once heard this topic come up in any church meeting I’ve ever attended and yet it seems to be a favorite topic of detractors. Considering the frequency that this topic comes up on the internet you’d think we just sit around discussing what we’ll do when we get our own planet to run, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
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I see where you are coming from, but I think your use of the word “speculated” is less than accurate. I don’t think either Joseph Smith or Brigham Young thought they were speculating when they taught such things. Furthermore, when a prophet uses his position to start teaching something he shoudln’t be teaching, that definitely calls into question their status as a true prophet, for what greater responsibility do they have then in correctly teaching their followers?

I also think your comparison between the “speculation” of those like Smith and Young and certain actions of the old testament prophets is faulty. Perhaps a better comparison would be for you to show when one of these ancient prophets was chastised for publicly teaching something they really didn’t know about, you know, “speculating.”
 
Yes, it’s off the topic, but regarding contraception, I did some research back in February. Turns out the LDS church waffles on contraception (and abortion) just as much as any denomination.

My findings are here.
 
Gosh, my whole life in the church I’ve always been taught that abortion was evil and that family planning was between the couple and the Lord. I haven’t ever heard anything different from a sermon or conference talk so I haven’t witnessed this “waffling” as you call it. Perhaps the church’s position was different on these topics sixty years ago before I was born but in my lifetime I think it has been pretty consistent. In any case, we believe in continuing revelation so if our prophet received a revelation tomorrow about either of these topics that pointed the church in a different direction the membership would accept it and follow.
 
It’s certainly your choice to believe that. Just don’t expect those with strong beliefs about the sanctity of human life ever to gain a testimony of your church.
 
quote=DeFide
Not true.
  1. Anyone who makes it to heaven is a saint (holy one) regardless of whether the Church makes a pronouncement on it.
  2. Church canonization of Saints is an infallible and thus official proclaimation. The Church therefore does hold with specificity that more than just Jesus & Mary are in Heaven.
    [/quote]
Ok, I know this is off-topic, but wanted to correct myself and apologize to Chris, DeFide, and anyone else mislead by my post. I had always been told that declaring someone a Saint was only a statement about their life on earth, NOT a statement about their eternal destination. After researching and asking the apologists here at CA (Fr. Vincent Serpa answered), it appears I was wrong. Being canonized as a Saint does mean that person is in Heaven.
 
RE: Just don’t expect those with strong beliefs about the sanctity of human life ever to gain a testimony of your church.

What are you talking about??? Both of our religions are opposed to the ugly practice of abortion. This should be an area of common ground between Catholics, LDS and most Protestants. We should work together to fight this terrible practice instead of bickering over who is more pro-life. What’s the point of that?
 
Would you join me in the fight against widespread sodomy if I said sodomy is permissible in certain situations?
 
That’s not a fair analogy because sodomy is only about self gratification and selfishness. If a mother’s life is in danger there might, under extremely unusual circumstances be a reason to consider abortion. I understand that the Catholic position is stricter and I respect it completly but the fact that our church leaders have left the door 1/8” open for unusual circumstances doesn’t mean we’re pro-abortion or waffling. In almost all circumstances our church leaders have condemned the practice.
 
I know, and I wish everyone did. The analogy was not comparing the acts themselves, however; it was comparing church teachings on one intrinsic evil with church teachings on another.

Even if a Catholic finds the LDS position acceptable, there are still family-related issues like contraception and divorce to worry about.
 
Brad Haas:
Yes, it’s off the topic, but regarding contraception, I did some research back in February. Turns out the LDS church waffles on contraception (and abortion) just as much as any denomination.

My findings are here.
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Mr Haas,
I have been reading the Catholic book called Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West.
Talk about waffling as you call it, check this book out. He says that Catholics will be judged for the children they do not have, but could have had if they had not prevented the conception. It is considered as great a sin as abortion, if a married couple have sex and deliberately prevent conception. That was very shocking to me, obviously Catholics do take birth control pills, so the church must have relaxed their views somewhat. I know many Catholics that limit themselves to two children through birth control. So the RCC must allow personal choice in this matter, or they just don’t ask. Officially the RCC says no contraception, no abortion etc. but unoffically they allow personal choice.

I have a personal experience as an LDS woman to relate, about contraception, and I think this is what is talked about when the Church gives guidelines discouraging contraception, but leaves the final choice to the individual. In my case I had 3 children in 2 and 1/2 years. Then I had 2 miscarriages in a matter of months,( I got pregnant while nursing my children and during periods) supposedly safe times, my body was simply not able to handle any more pregnancies. I took the contraceptive pill as a matter of spacing my children, when no other way would work for me.
There were 4 years between my 3rd child and my 4th child and then 13 months between 4th and 5th. Then with total abstinance I was able to go 4 years before my 6th and last child. My husband was out of work most of the time and I was under much stress, as he did not believe in helping. After the 6th child I divorce him. He was a converted Catholic who had been raised to think women did all the work and men did nothing. There are personal health reasons where the woman must use contraception. I think God understands and judges each person on the circumstances and there is no blanket rule that governs all. But, the LDS church believes that each woman within marriage should have as many children as she is physically and mentally capable of having.
This brings up the individual again, some women are stronger physically and mentally than others. Some would go crazy with two children and others could handle 12 with no problem. All decisions with regard to personal circumstances should be made with fasting and prayer. God is the final judge on all things.
🙂 BJ
 
Brad Haas:
Would you join me in the fight against widespread sodomy if I said sodomy is permissible in certain situations?
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Brad, Your Catholic Church says sodomy is OK. Page 93 in the Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West. Foreword by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput OFM cap.
This article says it’s OK as long as you don’t ejaculate and wash afterwards. Now what were you saying about the official RCC poisition on Sodomy?
 
BJ Colbert:
That was very shocking to me, obviously Catholics do take birth control pills, so the church must have relaxed their views somewhat. I know many Catholics that limit themselves to two children through birth control. So the RCC must allow personal choice in this matter, or they just don’t ask. Officially the RCC says no contraception, no abortion etc. but unoffically they allow personal choice.

There are personal health reasons where the woman must use contraception. I think God understands and judges each person on the circumstances and there is no blanket rule that governs all. But, the LDS church believes that each woman within marriage should have as many children as she is physically and mentally capable of having.
This brings up the individual again, some women are stronger physically and mentally than others. Some would go crazy with two children and others could handle 12 with no problem. All decisions with regard to personal circumstances should be made with fasting and prayer. God is the final judge on all things.
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The Church is against artificial forms of contraception for the purpose of preventing conception. However, The Church is not a police state, and cannot force anyone to follow its teachings. The Church also recognizes that there are times when artificial contraception is necessary. In those cases it is talked about with the priest, likely the bishop, the doctor, spouse, and much prayer.

From Humanae Vitae:
15. The Church, on the contrary, does not at all consider illicit the use of those therapeutic means truly necessary to cure diseases of the organism, even if an impediment to procreation, which may be foreseen, should result therefrom, provided such impediment is not, for whatever motive, directly willed [19].
 
BJ Colbert:
Brad, Your Catholic Church says sodomy is OK. Page 93 in the Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West. Foreword by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput OFM cap.
This article says it’s OK as long as you don’t ejaculate and wash afterwards. Now what were you saying about the official RCC poisition on Sodomy?
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Since when was Christopher West the official interpreter of Church beliefs?
 
BJ Colbert:
Brad, Your Catholic Church says sodomy is OK. Page 93 in the Good News about Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West. Foreword by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput OFM cap.
This article says it’s OK as long as you don’t ejaculate and wash afterwards. Now what were you saying about the official RCC poisition on Sodomy?
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Look on the back side of the title page of this particular book. Are the words Imprimatur or Nihil Obstat written there? I think that Catholic books have to bear these words in order to be considered official teachings of the church. If not then you are reading Christopher West’s opinion.

I might be wrong. I just learned this in RCIA.
 
deb1 said:
Imprimatur or Nihil Obstat written there? I think that Catholic books have to bear these words in order to be considered official teachings of the church.
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If I remember right nihil obstat means “let nothing obstruct” and imprimatur means let it be printed.
 
BJ Colbert:
It is considered as great a sin as abortion, if a married couple have sex and deliberately prevent conception. That was very shocking to me, obviously Catholics do take birth control pills, so the church must have relaxed their views somewhat. I know many Catholics that limit themselves to two children through birth control. So the RCC must allow personal choice in this matter, or they just don’t ask. Officially the RCC says no contraception, no abortion etc. but unoffically they allow personal choice.

🙂 BJ
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Hi BJ,
Any Catholic can do whatever they want, but contraception is always a sin and can’t be justified by the couple. When they try to give a medical reason to use contraception, only NFP or abstinence is given as viable choices. Yes the couple can do whatever they want, but if they use contraception it’s a sin.
 
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