Do Muslims love children more than Catholics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bobzills
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mgrfin said:
The whole thread seems to me to be irrelevant. How can you prove it, and when you do, what does it mean?

This topic ought to be removed.

peace
Click to expand...
I agree. The propostions put herein by the OP’s author keep changing.
 
Montalban said:
I agree. The propostions put herein by the OP’s author keep changing.
Click to expand...
the proposition is about Muslims loving children and having large families. This is seen by a comparison of birth rates between Muslims and Catholics. Another way to see it is by comparison of the number of Catholic Churches which are closing down versus the number of mosques which are opening up. This is also due to the fact that Muslims are having larger families than Catholics.
For example:
Here are some Catholic Churches closing down:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/26/MNGA5OQR921.DTL
thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18124690&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416046&rfi=6
ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=66779
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3614/is_200101/ai_n8933535
alderking.com/news/newsItems/tnrDQz/viewNewsItem
bta.it/txt/a0/02/en/bta00252.html
etc.

Islamic mosques opening:
news.tbo.com/news/metro/MGB947K9O1F.html
pluralism.org/news/article.php?id=16597
media.www.iowastatedaily.com/media/storage/paper818/news/2002/01/28/News/Ames-Mosque.Open.House.Draws.More.Than.1000-1089318.shtml
abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=local&id=4167719
eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2007/08/italy-new-mosque-to-open-in-rome-next.html
 
It could be possible, that Muslims may not be aware of NFP, but I don’t have any facts or statistics on what or how Muslims do in this regard.

If they do have more children, does this mean they love them more?

Or better stated, are they more open to having children?

Intersesting question, yet one I have never seen a study on.
bobzills said:
I read on another forum that Muslim women are generally not feminists and love being mothers and having children. I was somewhat skeptical of this until I looked at some of the recent birthrates for Muslim countries and compared these with the birthrates of European Catholic countries and from the statistics it looks like it is arguably true that Muslim women love having children much more than do Catholic women.

Islamic countries: Recent birthrates:
Afghanistan:
41.82 births/1,000 population
Iraq:
35.04 births/1,000 population
Pakistan:
32.11 births/1,000 population
Saudi Arabia:
37.47 births/1,000 population

European Catholic:
France:
12.27 births/1,000 population
Hungary:
9.26 births/1,000 population
Italy:
9.13 births/1,000 population
Austria:
9.9 births/1,000 population
Spain:
9.22 births/1,000 population
Poland:
10.13 births/1,000 population
Portugal:
11.49 births/1,000 population

Can one legitimately draw the conclusion from a comparison of these birthrates that generally speaking (of course there will be exceptions) Muslims love children more than do Catholics? Or is there some other message to be drawn here?
Anyway, although this next comment is not scientific, I do see that the Muslim family in our neighborhood has six children, whereas in the local Catholic Church, there are many families with at most two children, although, once again there are exceptions.
Click to expand...
 
Hellisreal said:
It could be possible, that Muslims may not be aware of NFP, but I don’t have any facts or statistics on what or how Muslims do in this regard.

If they do have more children, does this mean they love them more?

Or better stated, are they more open to having children?

Intersesting question, yet one I have never seen a study on.
Click to expand...
Yes, from the statistics it does look like they are more open to having children. Now if someone loves motherhood, and is more open to having children, and wants many children in her family, would it then be reasonable to assert that this person does love having children more so than the one who either does not want children or who wants only one or at most two children? The Muslim birthrate is high, new Mosques are being built, while the Cathoic birthrate is low in Europe and Catholic Churches are closing.
 
bobzills said:
Yes, from the statistics it does look like they are more open to having children. Now if someone loves motherhood, and is more open to having children, and wants many children in her family, would it then be reasonable to assert that this person does love having children more so than the one who either does not want children or who wants only one or at most two children? The Muslim birthrate is high, new Mosques are being built, while the Cathoic birthrate is low in Europe and Catholic Churches are closing.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. There some other message to be drawn here.
There is no TV, there is no alcohol, there is little food and entertainment. They are afraid of being blown up tomorrow. The Koran rewards large families. Sex is all they got. Take your pick of the reasons. Saying they love children more than the French or the Italians is a non-seqitur and pure nonsense.

Polygamy. Let’s not forget polygamy. Let’s not forget these guys have multiple wives.

How antiCatholic are you trying to make this, Bobzills?
 
bobzills said:
Yes, from the statistics it does look like they are more open to having children. Now if someone loves motherhood, and is more open to having children, and wants many children in her family, would it then be reasonable to assert that this person does love having children more so than the one who either does not want children or who wants only one or at most two children? The Muslim birthrate is high, new Mosques are being built, while the Cathoic birthrate is low in Europe and Catholic Churches are closing.
Click to expand...
Hello Bobzills,

I forgot that the Muslim woman open to life in a marital union must also contend with (in some cultures) multiple wifes and multiple kids in the husband’s line.

Is this love?
 
mgrfin said:
Nonsense. There some other message to be drawn here.
There is no TV, there is no alcohol, there is little food and entertainment. They are afraid of being blown up tomorrow. The Koran rewards large families. Sex is all they got. Take your pick of the reasons. Saying they love children more than the French or the Italians is a non-seqitur and pure nonsense.

Polygamy. Let’s not forget polygamy. Let’s not forget these guys have multiple wives.

How antiCatholic are you trying to make this, Bobzills?
Click to expand...
Obviously, this is an ad hominem argument. You choose to attack me, because Muslims like having large families and Catholics in Europe don’t like having too many children. There is plenty of food in Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE and in the USA also. The birthrate of Muslims is far higher than that for Catholics, and it really doesn’t make any sense to launch a personal attack against me because Muslims like having large families.
 
Hellisreal said:
Hello Bobzills,

I forgot that the Muslim woman open to life in a marital union must also contend with (in some cultures) multiple wifes and multiple kids in the husband’s line.

Is this love?
Click to expand...
Correct. However, I was looking at the number of births per women, and the number is higher among Muslim families. In the USA, a Muslim man can have only one wife.
Muslims are winning out without fighting a conventional war. They will succeed in numbers by simply having more children and larger families. It has been remarked that the increase in the Muslim population in Europe recently, has been phenomenal. Actually, this rapid increse in the Muslim population in Europe is causing some concern.
 
Dear Bobzills,

Will you answer my post please, and if others trouble you ignore them.

😉
 
bobzills said:
Correct. However, I was looking at the number of births per women, and the number is higher among Muslim families. In the USA, a Muslim man can have only one wife.
Muslims are winning out without fighting a conventional war. They will succeed in numbers by simply having more children and larger families. It has been remarked that the increase in the Muslim population in Europe recently, has been phenomenal. Actually, this rapid increse in the Muslim population in Europe is causing some concern.
Click to expand...
It is a very noble thing, and not anything to cause concern.

I am wondering however, about the children that come from multiple mothers and one father now.

Is this loving?

Jesus? Did he share a Mother?

PBUH
 
Hellisreal said:
It is a very noble thing, and not anything to cause concern.

I am wondering however, about the children that come from multiple mothers and one father now.

Is this loving?

Jesus? Did he share a Mother?

PBUH
Click to expand...
It is true that Jesus did not have two mothers. I guess your question is:
Is it loving for children to come from multiple mothers?
I will try to answer this question.
  1. The question of polygamy:
    1a. Polygamy was allowed in the Old Testament:
    In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and the other hated, and they have had children by him, and the son of the hated be the firstborn,
16 And he meaneth to divide his substance among his sons: he may not make the son of the beloved the firstborn, and prefer him before the son of the hated. 17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, and shall give him a double portion of all he hath: for this is the first of his children, and to him are due the first birthrights.
1b. 'The New Testament:Matthew 25:1-13 1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like to ten virgins, who taking their lamps went out to meet the bridegroom…10 Now whilst they went to buy, the bridegroom came: and they that were ready, went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut.
i am not sure if this passage allows polygamy or not.
2. Children who have been adopted have different mothers in the same family. Adoption is loving.
3. In the case of a wife who dies, and the husband remarries, children will have different mothers.
4. In the case of Catholic annulments, the children may have different mothers. As you know, the number of Catholic annulments fully approved by the Catholic Church has increased from about 10 or so in 1930 to more than 50,000 per year today in the USA.
To sum up, it is possible to have a loving family even if the children have different mothers. This is seen by example, from the Old Testament, the case of adoption, and the case of remarriage.
 
Dear Bobzills,

Forgive my ignorance on PUBH Muhhamed, but I only ask in sincerity, as I dont know, did Muhhamed have more than one mother, or stepmothers or the equivilant, per culture I am not sure, so I ask you humbly to reply kindly to me as you have dear sir.

Thank you

And in Jesus I offer you peace
bobzills said:
It is true that Jesus did not have two mothers. I guess your question is:
Is it loving for children to come from multiple mothers?
I will try to answer this question.
  1. The question of polygamy:
    1a. Polygamy was allowed in the Old Testament:
    In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and the other hated, and they have had children by him, and the son of the hated be the firstborn,
16 And he meaneth to divide his substance among his sons: he may not make the son of the beloved the firstborn, and prefer him before the son of the hated. 17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, and shall give him a double portion of all he hath: for this is the first of his children, and to him are due the first birthrights.
1b. 'The New Testament:Matthew 25:1-13 1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like to ten virgins, who taking their lamps went out to meet the bridegroom…10 Now whilst they went to buy, the bridegroom came: and they that were ready, went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut.
i am not sure if this passage allows polygamy or not.
2. Children who have been adopted have different mothers in the same family. Adoption is loving.
3. In the case of a wife who dies, and the husband remarries, children will have different mothers.
4. In the case of Catholic annulments, the children may have different mothers. As you know, the number of Catholic annulments fully approved by the Catholic Church has increased from about 10 or so in 1930 to more than 50,000 per year today in the USA.
To sum up, it is possible to have a loving family even if the children have different mothers. This is seen by example, from the Old Testament, the case of adoption, and the case of remarriage.
Click to expand...
 
bobzills said:
Obviously, this is an ad hominem argument. You choose to attack me, because Muslims like having large families and Catholics in Europe don’t like having too many children. There is plenty of food in Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE and in the USA also. The birthrate of Muslims is far higher than that for Catholics, and it really doesn’t make any sense to launch a personal attack against me because Muslims like having large families.
Click to expand...
So you believe Muslims have three times the love of children than Italians? Preposterous.

You take this as an argumentum ad hominem, but it is not. It does seem as a Roman Catholic you manage in all your posts to take the anti-catholic position. You can’t be this catholic, and all the time, attacking the Church, and infallibility, and the family, etc., etc.

peace,
mgrfin
 
mgrfin said:
So you believe Muslims have three times the love of children than Italians? Preposterous.

You take this as an argumentum ad hominem, but it is not. It does seem as a Roman Catholic you manage in all your posts to take the anti-catholic position. You can’t be this catholic, and all the time, attacking the Church, and infallibility, and the family, etc., etc.

peace,
mgrfin
Click to expand...
Your argument is ad hominem and therefore is not convincing to anyone.
Quite the contrary to what you state, I am pro-family. This is why I don’t understand why Catholics like small families and generally, European Catholics don’t want too many children. This contrasts rather sharply with European Muslims who seem to love having children.
 
Hellisreal said:
Dear Bobzills,

Forgive my ignorance on PUBH Muhhamed, but I only ask in sincerity, as I dont know, did Muhhamed have more than one mother, or stepmothers or the equivilant, per culture I am not sure, so I ask you humbly to reply kindly to me as you have dear sir.

Thank you

And in Jesus I offer you peace
Click to expand...
I don’t know very much about Islam as a rellgion, but I suppose that any human being on this earth has one and only one birth mother. Of course, it is possible to have step-mothers in addition to one’s birth mother.
I tried my best to answer your question about whether or not it is possible to have a loving family with more than one mother. I don;t have too much more to say about it, except what I already pointed out, that this was possible in the Old Testament, and that with the annulment rate among Catholics in the USA so high recently, there are many Catholic children in civilly divorced and religiously annulled situations with a mother and a step-mother. And these Catholic parents may argue that their children are in a loving environment.
I am interested in staying on the topic of children and Islam and comparing this with other religions. It just looks to me from the statistics that European Islam is conducive and supportive of large families contrasted with European Catholicism which is not, at least in practice today.
 
bobzills said:
Your argument is ad hominem and therefore is not convincing to anyone.
Quite the contrary to what you state, I am pro-family. This is why I don’t understand why Catholics like small families and generally, European Catholics don’t want too many children. This contrasts rather sharply with European Muslims who seem to love having children.
Click to expand...
How many children do you have?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top