Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[Jerry_Marino]

Unlike you, Jerry, I am a sinner. I beg the Lord every day to protect me and guard me from the wiles of Satan and to keep me from sin. I confess my sins regularly to the Lord through a priest and am given absolution for my sins. You, of course, are not a sinner because you are saved and once saved, always saved, right

ferde, i never said that i don’t sin but that is what get here on this forum people thinking this or that about me. with your statement about me not being a sinner shows me that you don’t understand scripture.

if you are going insinuate something i said, quote it like i’ve just quoted you: anyone who says they are without sin calls God a liar and i am not doing that. as long as we remain in the flesh we are susceptible to sin.

remember all the letters in the n.t. are written to Christians so i will take you to the first letter of john on this matter of sin.

8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. 10 If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

i could give you my thoughts but Scripture is cut and dry on the issue.

now i have asked you and others are you without sin? of course you say that you are and you are doing the right thing by confessing your sins. one final note as granny stated to me also applies to all.

“I hope and pray that as you believe in Christ, the one God has sent, your love for God will grow so that it fills your entire heart and your entire mind in Christ Jesus.”

what she hit on is the renewing of ones mind and being watered by the Word daily cleansing us sanctifying us to be more Christlike, would we ever be perfect though? no.

God bless you.

thank you granny for your encouraging words.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

ferde, i never said that i don’t sin but that is what get here on this forum people thinking this or that about me.

That just may have something to do with what you say, how you say it, taking back things you say and contradicting yourself. You do all of those regularly on this forum. It’s the reason some of us think you may be a little confused. A recent example is your being asked if you think you can commit murder, not repent and still go to heaven. Your answer was, “I do.” When I commented on it the next day, you took it back and offered an unconvincing excuse. There is more confusion in your remarks below, which I’ll get to in order.

with your statement about me not being a sinner shows me that you don’t understand scripture.

That’s your opinion and it’s not well informed. What does your not being (or being) a sinner have to do with my knowledge of Scripture? You know nothing about my knowledge of Scripture, which I’ll stack up against your alleged knowledge any day of the week.

if you are going insinuate something i said, quote it like i’ve just quoted you:

I don’t have to quote you. You’ve said repeatedly, and almost daily, you are saved. The saved are not sinners and sinners are not saved until they repent of their sin and are forgiven. You say you are saved and now you say you are a sinner. You can’t be both, Jerry and what you say is a contradiction. You have also said you believe in osas. That’s three sides to a two-sided coin.

anyone who says they are without sin calls God a liar and i am not doing that. as long as we remain in the flesh we are susceptible to sin.

remember all the letters in the n.t. are written to Christians so i will take you to the first letter of john on this matter of sin.

Please don’t. I’ve asked you politely not to lecture me about Scripture and I’m asking you again. If you want to make a point using Scripture, by all means do, but lectures from people who have no true understanding of how to read Scripture are unacceptable.

Not only do I know what John says about sinners, I know what the Lord says about them and the righteous, too, Matthew 25:31-46 being the least of it.

what [Granny] hit on is the renewing of ones mind and being watered by the Word daily cleansing us sanctifying us to be more Christlike, would we ever be perfect though? no.

Which means we are all sinners working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Paul himself worried about his salvation. I wonder what he’d say about all you protestants using his words to run around insisting you’re saved just because you say you believe in Jesus.

 

[SteveGC]

You’ve said repeatedly, and almost daily, you are saved. The saved are not sinners and sinners are not saved until they repent of their sin and are forgiven. You say you are saved and now you say you are a sinner. You can’t be both, Jerry and what you say is a contradiction. You have also said you believe in osas. That’s three sides to a two-sided coin.

If I may, Ferde, let me try to see if I can read into Jerry’s “3 sided” coin.

I think he means to say that he IS saved. And he is ALWAYS saved. And he IS a sinner, but the sins he commits are forgiven, since he is ALWAYS saved. That’s a pretty common OSAS theology. OSAS’ers admit sinful lives, like Catholics do, but they deny the falling from grace that accompanies it. They say that a “true believer” WILL repent and confess of sins, but if they die before getting around to it, it’s OK, they’re still saved. That’s the best way I think I can explain their faulty doctrine.

You may already realize this is what OSAS’ers believe, and perhaps I am misunderstanding the history of you and Jerry’s discourse? If so, my apologies. Muster up as much patience as you can with him…it’s difficult, I know.

God Bless

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

If I may, Ferde, let me try to see if I can read into Jerry’s “3 sided” coin.

I think he means to say that he IS saved. And he is ALWAYS saved. And he IS a sinner, but the sins he commits are forgiven, since he is ALWAYS saved.

I understand what you’re saying, Steve, and I understand what Jerry’s saying. It may be common osas theology, if that’s what you want to call it, but I still say it’s a contradiction. It makes no sense to say you’re a sinner but avoid the penalty for sin because you’re saved.

Jerry comes off as a well meaning man, but it’s no favor to let him off the hook. It’s my hope to lead him to the truth and, I’m sure, yours as well.

BTW, patience is not my strong suit.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

i am saved

It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself

those aren’t my words but they apply here

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

i am saved

It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself

Of course you do. You just did. You said, “I am saved.”

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

i am saved

It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself

those aren’t my words but they apply here

:)Hello Jerry,I hope you dont mind if i ask you this do you beleive that once you are saved you cannot loose your salvation? I studied with the Baptist but i dont remember that. Please get back Love of Christ Nancy

 

[qui_est_ce]

I understand what you’re saying, Steve, and I understand what Jerry’s saying. It may be common osas theology, if that’s what you want to call it, but I still say it’s a contradiction. It makes no sense to say you’re a sinner but avoid the penalty for sin because you’re saved.

Jerry comes off as a well meaning man, but it’s no favor to let him off the hook. It’s my hope to lead him to the truth and, I’m sure, yours as well.

BTW, patience is not my strong suit.

Patience is a virtue Ferde. God is giving you many chances to excel in this virtue. Don’t let Him down.
*
Proverbs 18:17-21
17
The man who *pleads his case first seems to be in the right; then his opponent comes and puts him to the test. 18
The lot puts an end to disputes, and is decisive in a controversy between the mighty.
19
A brother is a better defense than a strong city, and a friend is like the bars of a castle. **
20
5 From the fruit of his mouth a man has his fill; with the yield of his lips he sates himself.
21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue; those who make it a friend shall eat its fruit

IOW, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

God bless brother Jerry for coming back and witnessing his faith

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

i am saved

It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself

those aren’t my words but they apply here

:)Jerry I am going to give scripture that i would like you and all who beleive in what you are saying to read and understand 1John 5:13 I have writen these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life,to you who beleive in the name of the son of God. It is impossible for god to lie Hebrews 6:18 Whatever God say's stands forever Psa.119:89The bible is Gods very word,inspired by him 2nd Tim:3:16 We can take this word,beleive this word,and trust this word.What does God say about salvation? He say's that the way of salvation is a person,Jesus Christ(john 3:16,14:6 Acts 10:43, 16:31. He says whoever beleives that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead and confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord is saved.he says that whoever calls upon the name of the lord shall be saved(Romans:10:9-13) Then 1John 5:10 He who beleives in the son of God has the testemony in himself. 1John 3:14 says" We know that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers" This love transcends the cheap,selfish "love" of todays age.It is a love that is impartial-it loves those who are alike and those who are differnt.This is the real oneness and harmony the world longs for.Yet it is ours when we receive Christ.How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell in unity! Psa.133:1 By these 3 witnesses Gods word, the Spirits inner witness and our love for the brothers,we may know we are his children. Also you can read John 15:16 "You did not choose me but i chose you" Love of Christ Nancy;)

 

[grannymh]

i am saved

It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself

those aren’t my words but they apply here

Jerry, I know I said I wasn’t going to get into the osas discussion, but…

It may be the time to point out that Catholicism teaches being saved in two ways.

The first act of salvation is the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. When I was young, we learned that by this act, Jesus opened the gates of heaven. Through the Cross, Jesus gained salvation for all people. In other words, all of us have a chance at entering heaven to be with God eternally.

The monkey wrench is that God gave us the ability to make choices. Catholics call that gift free will. When we picture Jesus on the Cross, we see His hands nailed tight against the wood, dripping with blood. While we, at the foot of the Cross, are perfectly free to stay or leave. We can turn our backs to Christ, dying in agony for our salvation.

The story of the Prodigal Son is a perfect example of us when we walk away from God. It tells how we can lose our place in our Father’s house through sin. The Father’s house does not change. Christ’s years of preaching does not change. Laying down His life for us does not change. It is we who change.

The story of the Prodigal Son is a perfect example of how we recover our inheritance of Salvation. This is the second meaning of being saved. Once again, the Prodigal Son has to make a choice. He returns humbly to his Father who accepts his sorrow and restores him to salvation.

The first meaning of being saved centers on Jesus Christ who died a most cruel death so that we would have the eternal life of salvation.

The second meaning of being saved centers on the choices we make. As we read Scripture, we listen to Jesus teaching us how to live so that we can enter the narrow gate of salvation. And always, He gives us hope because He is the Good Shepherd.

One could look at it this way. It is our responsibility to act so that we are worthy of our personal salvation. But we don’t have to be beaten, whipped, and crucified on the Cross, because Jesus, Our Savior, has already opened the gates of heaven for us. It is up to us to walk in.

Blessings,
granny

All humanity belongs at the foot of the Cross.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

apparently you all place the authority of man over God when it is clear from God’s word that once He saves you not one will be lost. now, maybe, some are under the false pretense of being save and they walk away. to use the prodigal son story well he never ceased to be a son now did He? well i am done with this subject there is no sense in it, you believe what you all want and i believe what i believe and when it is all over God will have His say.

God Bless you.

 

[grannymh]

apparently you all place the authority of man over God when it is clear from God’s word that once He saves you not one will be lost. now, maybe, some are under the false pretense of being save and they walk away. to use the prodigal son story well he never ceased to be a son now did He? well i am done with this subject there is no sense in it, you believe what you all want and i believe what i believe and when it is all over God will have His say.God Bless you.

Dear Jerry,

Yes. The prodigal son will always be a son. And each time that he returns to his Father’s home, he will not be lost.

If I have implied that I am judging your individual faith, I am terribly sorry because that was not my intention. I am so afraid of judging which is why I normally stay out of osas discussions.

It is just that I hear so many Scripture quotes saying this and saying that…

Sometimes, I long to be the Samaritan woman at the well. I want to hear Jesus’ meaning of the quotes. For me, Jesus’ story of the prodigal son teaches both meanings of being saved. It fits right in with our responsibility to respond in obedience to God’s loving words. The Prodigal Son is like God telling us that He understands our human nature and no matter what, He wants us to return to His salvation. I think there has been a post or two on asking God for forgiveness for our sins. This is the way we turn back to God.

Now, for sure, I will not get into another osas discussion. But knowing myself, I probably won’t keep this promise.

Again, I apologize if it appeared I was judging your beliefs. I mean this sincerely–I do trust that you will remain faithful to God.

It is my hope and prayer that the love, which all of us have for God, will grow so that it fills our entire heart and our entire mind in Christ Jesus. In this love, we need to listen to the words “Be still and know that I am God.” God wants all of us to keep on learning about His teachings so that we can know more about how He wants us to walk the way of the Lord.

Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. See Philippians 4:7

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.

 

[SteveGC]

apparently you all place the authority of man over God when it is clear from God’s word that once He saves you not one will be lost. now, maybe, some are under the false pretense of being save and they walk away. to use the prodigal son story well he never ceased to be a son now did He? well i am done with this subject there is no sense in it, you believe what you all want and i believe what i believe and when it is all over God will have His say.

God Bless you.

Hi Jerry. The “son” in the parable is not to be equated with the Divine Sonship God grants us in heaven if we perservere in the faith. The prodigal son is a biological son, not a spiritual one, but his story, on the other hand, does reflect the spiritual sonship we are all invited to join. This is the essence of parables (as you know). They take a material or earthly element, and relate it analogously to a spiritual element.

The prodigal son could have stayed away from home, where he was once secure. Had he chosen this, he would still be his father’s biological son, but if he died away from home, he would default on his privilege to be a apiritual son of God. This is how this parable balances the two elements to explain salvation.

Btw, I answered your question a few posts back regarding the Holy Spirit in The Church. Did you get anything from that worthwhile? I hope so, because it took me some time to write it out for you.

God Bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Hi Jerry. The “son” in the parable is not to be equated with the Divine Sonship God grants us in heaven if we perservere in the faith. The prodigal son is a biological son, not a spiritual one, but his story, on the other hand, does reflect the spiritual sonship we are all invited to join. This is the essence of parables (as you know). They take a material or earthly element, and relate it analogously to a spiritual element.

The prodigal son could have stayed away from home, where he was once secure. Had he chosen this, he would still be his father’s biological son, but if he died away from home, he would default on his privilege to be a apiritual son of God. This is how this parable balances the two elements to explain salvation.

Btw, I answered your question a few posts back regarding the Holy Spirit in The Church. Did you get anything from that worthwhile? I hope so, because it took me some time to write it out for you.

God Bless

if one is truly a Son and slips away like the prodigal Son his life would be miserable and one day like the prodigal Son will come to his senses now if one is not a son under a false pretense he’ll stay out and never come back.

look at 1 cor 5 it’s a short chapter talks of brother who is sinning and i’ll just put one verse sort of goes with the prodigal son.

verse 5 of that chapter: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Deliver this man to Satan: once the sinner is expelled from the church, the sphere of Jesus’ lordship and victory over sin, he will be in the region outside over which Satan is still master. For the destruction of his flesh: the purpose of the penalty is medicinal: through affliction, sin’s grip over him may be destroyed and the path to repentance and reunion laid open. With Paul’s instructions for an excommunication ceremony here, contrast his recommendations for the reconciliation of a sinner in 2 Cor 2:5-11.

now mind you the person being spoken of here is a believer who has fallen into sin, the story is not speaking of a non-believer. what do you think?

i love you both steve-o and granny

God bless.

 

[jlhargus]

As a matter of fact, you are mistaken …

From the Day of Pentecost to the year 311 A.D., there was no such thing as a “Catholic” church. The church was called the “Christian” church . Read the Book of Acts and the Epistles to verify this; also the Early Church Fathers .

After 311 , when Emperor Constantine became the Roman Emperor , he proposed a union of church and state in a political move to bring peace to his empire . After more than 3 centuries of persecution , the church, weary of such persecutions, accepted . Actually, the Pope at the time , was somewhat worried about the social, religious and political implications of this and did not make a public move to accept, but the following pope, (314 A.D.) Sylvester I, accepted readily . After that , the Christian church came slowly to be recognized as the “Catholic” church. Catholic means “universal” ; this was the intention of Constantine and the following emperors, that their empire became a world empire .
After the schism of the Orthodox church around 1250 I think, ( not sure of the exact date), the Catholic church became known as the “Roman Catholic Church”, to distinguish it from its counterpart at Constantinople . Of course , both sides, the west and the east, to this day claim to be the only “Church of Christ”

Now, this does not change much to the Catholic theology, but it is better to know the facts of history … Non-Catholic people accuses you of willfully promoting lies . Personally, I believe, it is more ignorance that lies . The “Roman Catholic” Archbishop of the city of NewCastle , in England, said recently that Catholics are “amazingly ignorant” of their own religion. Many are surprised when I , a Baptist, take their Catechism, and show them what exactly their Church teaches . Many Catholics nowadays believe all kind of stuff that are contrary to their church’s beliefs and are “under anathema” for that . Your Church says that, not I !

JL: You really should just go to a library and check you facts.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

JL: You really should just go to a library and check you facts.

i HAVE A BOOK AT HOME IT IS CALLED ELEMENTS OF HISTORY BY JOHN W BARBER.IT HAS ALOT OF HISTORY INFORMATION AND THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN 1844 IN NEW HAVEN CONN. THE BOOK WAS USED TO TEACH HISTORY WAY BACK THEN AND IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THINGS STARTED 350 YEARS BEFORE CHRIST EVER CAME. IF YOU WANT TO BORROW IT LET ME KNOW BUT DO BE CAREFUL AS IT IS OLD.LOVE OF CHRIST NANCY

 

[Boxcar]

if you would read these different passages from matthew and john and explain to me what Jesus is teaching us. i put in all of it’s context to get a better meaning of what He might be teaching. the verses in bold are the one’s of emphasis to the common thread He is speaking of here.

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you— but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

[Boxcar]

Boxcar:
I didn’t understand what sin is to me until my own actions, could be seen by me, like the woman humiliated and dragged to Jesus it is not about casting the first stone but after total humiliation does one humble oneself, to alow the Holy Spirit to show that sin which bears witness to the Truth, The Holy Spirit is our advocate and works to show us how to be humble, now we all haved sined but so few acknowledge it,face it , do we think of the One who Loves us , when we sin,or when we dont, or do we just think I’m in his pressence and that good enough, Jesus wants prosestants to pray the Rosary too, but buy being stubbon and making excuses, after all Jesus Prayed 3 times in the Garden , shouldn’t we also repeat our prayer…Face it I have to hate my life in this world to inherit in the next:thumbsup:

 

[wlychan64]

ty granny for teaching me, finally someone who explains to me what the church teaches.

so if a preacher from a protestant church marries such a couple and lets say they wanted to join the church then what?

Could any one enlighten me if there is any problems for a Catholic to marry a Protestant or Vice-versa?

I have this problem as my elder sister who is a protestant married a Catholic. My borther in law does not like my niece to attend Protestant Church and in the contrary, my sister does not like her daughter to attend the Roman Catholic Church. As such, my niece aged 18 now knows almost nothing about Jesus Christ even though she has been brought up in LA, the US.

Both my wife and I are protestants but these days, I start to attene Roman Catholic Church for the mass. My wife does not mind me taking my daughter to Roman Catholic Church as she accepts the Catholic Church just like any other christian bodies. Is that ok?

wlychan64

 

[Jerry_Marino]

you need to go to RCIA classes, i think those are the right initials, and as j. grodi would say, ‘welcome to the journey home’