Do we vote for the lesser of two evils?

[JimR-OCDS]

Right after Obama was inaguarated he made sure that our tax $ went to OVERSEAS ABORTIONS…by rescinding the mexico city policy, which forbids US tax money be used for overseas family planning funds, which of course INCLUDE ABORTION. That’s a HUGE REASON Not to vote for him.

Resending the Mexico City Policy wasn’t for the purpose of funding for abortions in developing nations, but to not withhold money for all health services in those nations which allow abortions.

The Mexico City Policy is flawed in that poor nations were being rejected from receiving US aid, if they allow abortions. In other words, all the services to save human life in those nations are not helped through US aid. So much for a pro-life policy.

Jim

 

[MitcheleSheree]

Im not saying i would choose pro choice for myself but its not my right to tell someone else what to choose for themselves. Im not judge or the higher power. You people are crazy thinking a Mormon will help your cause. And Paul Ryan loves the views of fiction writer Rand and i do believe she was pro choice and an atheist. So how are you not fuming mad at Paul Ryan right now? He is insane!!! He told his staff that Ayn Rand inspires him so much its required reading for is staff!!! Not very good catholic is he. And where does it say in the bible to judge others? I thought only God could do that not every random person…

 

[scipio337]

Im not saying i would choose pro choice for myself but its not my right to tell someone else what to choose for themselves. Im not judge or the higher power. You people are crazy thinking a Mormon will help your cause. And Paul Ryan loves the views of fiction writer Rand and i do believe she was pro choice and an atheist. So how are you not fuming mad at Paul Ryan right now? He is insane!!! He told his staff that Ayn Rand inspires him so much its required reading for is staff!!! Not very good catholic is he. And where does it say in the bible to judge others? I thought only God could do that not every random person…

Um, NO. That whole “Ryan worships at the altar of Ayn Rand” is a nasty bit of propoganda.

 

[scipio337]

Resending the Mexico City Policy wasn’t for the purpose of funding for abortions in developing nations, but to not withhold money for all health services in those nations which allow abortions.

The Mexico City Policy is flawed in that poor nations were being rejected from receiving US aid, if they allow abortions. In other words, all the services to save human life in those nations are not helped through US aid. So much for a pro-life policy.

Jim

That’s odd.

Many NGO’s conform to the new guideline and continue to receive funds.

newscientist.com/article/dn6485-us-abortion-policy-a-healthy-strategy-for-whom-.html

Is it a bad thing not to provide aid to foreign abortion providers? I’m guessing we provide enough taxpayer money to the ones we have in the US.

Oh, and the Vatican (you know, the head of the largest charity orgainization on the planet) immediately slammed President Obama overturning of the Mexico City Policy:

President Obama is probably not itching for a fight over abortion. But he might get one. With unusual speed, the Vatican has condemned Obama’s Jan. 23 repeal of the ban on U.S. funding for foreign family-planning aid groups that offer abortion services.

The repeal fulfills a campaign promise Obama made to pro-choice supporters. But if the late-Friday-afternoon signing was an attempt to get the change in under the radar, it didn’t work. Top Vatican officials, usually hesitant to respond directly to Washington’s domestic-policy decisions, pounced quickly. By Saturday afternoon, the Holy See was e-mailing reporters the Sunday edition of its official daily, L’Osservatore Romano, which features a front-page headline describing Obama’s decision as “very disappointing.” (Read “Shhh. Obama Repeals the Abortion Gag Rule, Very Quietly.”)

The same day, the secular Milan daily Corriere della Sera published an interview with a top Vatican official lashing out at the new U.S. President. Archbishop Rino Fisichella, head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, told the newspaper that the repeal of the abortion-funding ban was done with “the arrogance of those who, having power, think they can decide between life and death.” Troubled by the swiftness of Obama’s pro-choice move, Fisichella brushed off earlier vows by the new President to try to cut the number of abortions while ensuring a woman’s access to the procedure. “On ethical questions, you can’t play with words,” said the Italian Archbishop, who is considered close to Pope Benedict XVI. “Hiding behind sophisms isn’t worthy of he who has a responsibility towards citizens. People want clarity.”

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1873904,00.html?imw=Y

 

[pnewton]

One notes that the above post suggests that I let politics become more important that treating others with Christian charity.

To use your own logic, I did not say this, but it was the idea I addressed. Whether we label the idea or the person Protestant, I think it really has no place here, especially when it is just used as a name and is not truly a Protestant idea.

As expressed, his foundational concept is that one is justified in following one’s “faith informed” conscience. That is not a Catholic concept. As your citation makes clear, one’s conscience is not formed by “faith”, but by both the inborn perception of the natural law and studied adherence to objective truth, both as observed and as taught by the Church.

I would note that the bishops choose as the title of Faithful Citizenship, “Formning Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” Yes our conscience is innate but it also must be informed in the faith. Since the person that mentioned it is Catholic, exactly what other faith would you expect him to imform himself in? Hinduism?

The poin that the poster was making and remains a teaching of the Catholic Church, is that we are to vote our Catholic conscience. There is no way to make this a Protestant issue without just making up the other person’s position.

 

[gnjsdad]

Um, NO. That whole “Ryan worships at the altar of Ayn Rand” is a nasty bit of propoganda.

Maybe he doesn’t “worship” at the “altar” of Ayn Rand, but he has, up until very recently, cited and praised her as formative political influence. Of course, now that he is coming under increased national scrutiny, he’s running away from his past statements on Rand almost as fast as Romney is running away from what used to be called “Romneycare” and is now called “Obamacare”.

 

[MitcheleSheree]

Thank you for saying that. He is trying to back peddle stating that he isn’t inspired by Rand’s selfishness. I don’t worry about other people in my life just the choices ive made. And i agree with the man talking about divorce. Everyone is so up in arms about a woman’s choices what about a man who leaves his wife is that not a mortal sin? A sin is a sin and judging someone is sinful so why aren’t you in confession right now? This is why the mega churches are getting larger so many people are turned away from The Church by the followers. I wouldnt want to go to mass that was all about judging others choices. It should be about loving the trinity and our neighbors.

 

[scipio337]

Maybe he doesn’t “worship” at the “altar” of Ayn Rand, but he has, up until very recently, cited and praised her as formative political influence. Of course, now that he is coming under increased national scrutiny, he’s running away from his past statements on Rand almost as fast as Romney is running away from what used to be called “Romneycare” and is now called “Obamacare”.

Nonesense. It revolves around a single statement that her ideas (hey, anti-collectivism was pretty big as Ryan and I were coming of age) got him into politics, and the (widely disproved) urban legend that he requires staffers to read Rand.

If Ryan were so Randian, why on earth would he try to make Medicare solvent?

Ayn Rand would not approve.

Simply put, it’s a personal smear campaign.

 

[scipio337]

Thank you for saying that. He is trying to back peddle stating that he isn’t inspired by Rand’s selfishness. …

Judge the man by his actions. What proposals, what governance, what, if anything, in Ryan’s career can you point out as “Randian”?

Ryan on abortion?

I’m as pro-life as a person gets . . . You’re not going to have a truce. Judges are going to come up. Issues come up, they’re unavoidable, and I’m never going to not vote pro-life.

Rand on abortion:

An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living…

(she could have a speaking engagement with NARAL).

Please be specific. WHAT, in Ryan’s career, parallels the Objectivist philosophy???

Repeating something over and over doesn’t make it true. Please provide something substantive.

 

[MitcheleSheree]

Someone that every thought Rand was “inspiring” needs to get a higher education. He shouldn’t of ever stated that he was inspired by her. And she was on medicare and social security when she got older and didn’t Ryan get social security at one point. So he is just out to pet hands and get money that’s it pure gluttony is what the Romney ticket will get you and maybe your children wondering why their parents got it so wrong.

 

[MitcheleSheree]

He is only stating he is pro life because ppl will eat it up and praise him for it. I will never be swayed his way. A person that belongs to a cult should never have been elected in the first place. And i dont need to quote republican information to get my point across i have my own brain and make my own decisions. As a woman i will never vote for this ticket. Obama all the way since 2008!!! But if it was free game i would vote Liberal but i cant trust the liberal to win so i will vote the same as 2008.

 

[scipio337]

Someone that every thought Rand was “inspiring” needs to get a higher education. He shouldn’t of ever stated that he was inspired by her. And she was on medicare and social security when she got older and didn’t Ryan get social security at one point. So he is just out to pet hands and get money that’s it pure gluttony is what the Romney ticket will get you and maybe your children wondering why their parents got it so wrong.

Please provide one example of Ryan’s Randian policies.

And I think you mean “He shouldn’t have ever stated…”

 

[scipio337]

He is only stating he is pro life because ppl will eat it up and praise him for it. I will never be swayed his way. A person that belongs to a cult should never have been elected in the first place. And i dont need to quote republican information to get my point across i have my own brain and make my own decisions. As a woman i will never vote for this ticket. Obama all the way since 2008!!! But if it was free game i would vote Liberal but i cant trust the liberal to win so i will vote the same as 2008.

You do realize that Ryan is CATHOLIC, right?

I’m not sure how far you’ll get by questioning people’s sincerity or faith, or is Catholicism a cult??

As far as having your “own brain and make my own decisions”, how does one justify voting for the party of unfettered abortion, same sex “marriage”, and violating Catholic rights of conscience (no irony intended!)?

BTW, I live in the same state, and look for MO to vote with the side of values again this election!

 

[Ridgerunner]

To use your own logic, I did not say this, but it was the idea I addressed. Whether we label the idea or the person Protestant, I think it really has no place here, especially when it is just used as a name and is not truly a Protestant idea.

I would note that the bishops choose as the title of Faithful Citizenship, “Formning Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” Yes our conscience is innate but it also must be informed in the faith. Since the person that mentioned it is Catholic, exactly what other faith would you expect him to imform himself in? Hinduism?

The poin that the poster was making and remains a teaching of the Catholic Church, is that we are to vote our Catholic conscience. There is no way to make this a Protestant issue without just making up the other person’s position.

Again, I did not say the person is a Protestant. Nor did I question his charity as you did mine.

Regardless, faith alone does not inform conscience except to the extent our faith leads us to consider the true teachings thereof in addition to natural reason and our studied experiences of objective reality. Faith alone is not an adequate basis for formation of Catholic conscience, or any faith of any kind would do. Your own citation said the same thing.

That’s precisely why protestantism is protestantism. If one’s “faith” directs his conscience in some direction, then he considers that his conscience is fully and properly formed, and feels no obligation to go further. That’s a subjective standard.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He is only stating he is pro life because ppl will eat it up and praise him for it. I will never be swayed his way. A person that belongs to a cult should never have been elected in the first place. And i dont need to quote republican information to get my point across i have my own brain and make my own decisions. As a woman i will never vote for this ticket. Obama all the way since 2008!!! But if it was free game i would vote Liberal but i cant trust the liberal to win so i will vote the same as 2008.

Just curious. What does the Liberal party have or espouse that Obama does not?

 

[MitcheleSheree]

I meant Romney is the cult member. And he hasn’t passed any Rand inspired laws yet. I think you are wrong about which way our state will vote. You must not see what i see happening. Do you go outside? Do you see the children that are homeless? I think your are stuck on old views of America we are no longer a great country due to money in politics. We no longer care about each other or the way others are struggling. I may live in a small town but i have deed in hand on my home and thats the only reason my family eats 3 meals a day. I am a Catholic also, but i was raised where everyone was equal and God was first by a Catholic father and a Pentecostal mother. So i have many different open minded views compared to all the old people living in old America. Wake up before its to late and get the money out of Govt. Im sure you are some 1% er that is living in KCMO thinking God you are able to pay your bills and buy food. You should be thinking the 1% for their tax breaks and praying for their gluttony.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How very sad.

There are many Catholics who will happily vote for Obama’s 2nd term.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

He is only stating he is pro life because ppl will eat it up and praise him for it. I will never be swayed his way. A person that belongs to a cult should never have been elected in the first place. And i dont need to quote republican information to get my point across i have my own brain and make my own decisions. As a woman i will never vote for this ticket. Obama all the way since 2008!!! But if it was free game i would vote Liberal but i cant trust the liberal to win so i will vote the same as 2008.

I think you should stay home on election day.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I am pro life but free will is free will and if another woman wants to commit murder there is only one why she will be judged.

With all due respect, that is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Would you vote for a presidential candidate who espoused honor killings? Your argument would apply there.

For the umpteenth time: a Roman Catholic is never allowed to vote for a pro-abortion candidate running against a pro-life candidate under any circumstances. Never. Period.

 

[scipio337]

I meant Romney is the cult member. And he hasn’t passed any Rand inspired laws yet. I think you are wrong about which way our state will vote. You must not see what i see happening. Do you go outside? Do you see the children that are homeless? I think your are stuck on old views of America we are no longer a great country due to money in politics. We no longer care about each other or the way others are struggling. I may live in a small town but i have deed in hand on my home and thats the only reason my family eats 3 meals a day. I am a Catholic also, but i was raised where everyone was equal and God was first by a Catholic father and a Pentecostal mother. So i have many different open minded views compared to all the old people living in old America. Wake up before its to late and get the money out of Govt. Im sure you are some 1% er that is living in KCMO thinking God you are able to pay your bills and buy food. You should be thinking the 1% for their tax breaks and praying for their gluttony.

Ryan has been in office 14 years. Don’t you think he would have passed something, yet?

I see the child that is homeless. I try to volunteer 2 hours a week for a local soup kitchen. I also see a government that is doing nothing to help the economy and lower the amount of unemployed. I also see Democrats in this state distancing themselves from the President (see Gov Nixon, Sen Mckaskill).

No, I’m not a part of the “1%”, but I hold no illusions that those who are (maybe our career politicians?) will do nothing to help us. They are only out to help themselves.

Its up to us to help each other.