Do we vote for the lesser of two evils?

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foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/27/fox-news-poll-7-percent-say-all-americans-should-pay-income-taxes/

A 5% increase is expected in those who pay zero federal income taxes. In addition, 79% of all Americans believe that all should pay some federal income tax.
Everyone should pay something. A little skin in the game might generate more interest in critical elections among the electorate. When real $$$$ is at stake, people pay attention and (hopefully) examine the issues and candidates a little better.
 
Everyone should pay something. A little skin in the game might generate more interest in critical elections among the electorate. When real $$$$ is at stake, people pay attention and (hopefully) examine the issues and candidates a little better.
Yup. Isn’t fair that one should be able to vote to raise only someone else’s taxes.
 
Yup. Isn’t fair that one should be able to vote to raise only someone else’s taxes.
Those who pay no taxes drive on the same federal highways and visit the same federal parks I do. Why should I pay 100% of their share of usage? They can always pay something. As Ann Coulter once said, even a can of sardines represents a contribution.
 
totally agree with this. I think not voting from indifference is an indefensible position. I also see the danger of cynicism creeping in. This is one reason I do not like to read such things like this is the most important election ever or, as one poster put it, this may be the last free election. I have heard that almost every presidential election. Such hype can easily lead to cynicism when repeated every four years.
Cardinal Francis George said in 2010:

“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square.”

This is an important election. Every election is important but the stakes are much higher this time around because so many of our freedoms are at stake. I suppose an independent (non-Dem/Rep) voter might say " we’ve already lost our freedoms" but the reality is, with an Obama victory, we might well get to the point of no return. With Romney/Ryan, atleast we would have an administration that is sympathetic to the values of Christianity and conservatism, instead of outright hostility of Obama admin. Think about that: the Obama administration is hostile to the values of the Catholic church and conservatism. Therefore, for a Catholic, the moral imperative is to defeat Obama. That is not accomplished by people sitting on the sidelines lecturing everyone else while they stay home on election day. There are enough ignorant Catholics voting for Obama already. We don’t need informed Catholics to sit this one out - too much is at stake.

Ishii
 
Is the lesser of two evils and “proportionate reasons” an official teaching of the Catholic Church or is it simply theological theory?
 
I have focused my attentions and ernergies to voting for Romney - but, many have taken the step to point out that the man is not a saint - in fact, is a Mormon - and, because he is so truly flawed, they have chosen to sit and home and not vote. There are others who seem to think it is the teaching of the Catholic Church too take a stand by voting against the most evil and murderous President that this country has ever had. In your apparent sympathy for the ‘women (who make the) difficult decision (to abort)’ I did not read one word about the females who are torn limb from limb, having their skulls crushed and their mangled bodies sucked through a vacuum and their remains winding up in a landfill somewhee. Not one word. Odd. Unborn males suffer the same fate from the abortionist - but since your focus was on females, I a willing to work with you on this. Very few countries execute their condemned criminals in such a manner. But, you know - instead of abortion - we could be promoting adoption (admittedly this is something Planned Parenthood - a really big financial contributer to the re-electon of our current President - does not support. But, what the heck - it is hard to get all emotional over this once target for abortion being the joy of someone else’s life.
There is nothing wrong showing sympathy to all women since the babies fate relies on their conscience . If you really want to end abortion you have to start with the women’s conscience. That’s where you start. I am with you on adoption. I support it 100%. What I am interested in finding out is why would a woman choose to abort than to carry her baby for 9 months for adoption? Having respect for those babies has nothing to do with my lack of mentioning them. I would rather show solemn respect and fight for them in a different way than use them for political games. What’s ODD for me is how you articulate so well the abortion scence in a vivid and horrific way like watching a horror film. Very, very ODD.
Finally, your reliance on data to make the decision for you totally misses the mark. Roe v Wade effectively became the law of the land in 1973. Since that time an estimated 55,000,000 abortions have taken place in the US (here is a link: numberofabortions.com/) And, just to make this a more meaningful number - this is the entire population of California and New York combined simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population So, just what kind of statistics are you looking for? Yes, asking God for help has to be our first response to evil. But, like the saints who refused to worship the Emperor - we need to take the courageous step and vote Obama out of office. God bless
I already know this statistics. What I was talking about is the demographics of women who abort and what other issues affect them to abort? I am not interested about the politics of abortion. I am only interested about the solution to end abortion. Do you think that just by kicking Obama out now or on the election will somehow end the abortion?
 
What do you do when you don’t believe the lesser of two evils is being truthful? Are you required to vote for someone you think is a liar who takes positions solely for political purposes?
 
What do you do when you don’t believe the lesser of two evils is being truthful? Are you required to vote for someone you think is a liar who takes positions solely for political purposes?
Many pro-life organizations have endorsed Romney for President.

christianpost.com/news/major-pro-life-group-endorses-romney-vows-to-spend-10m-to-defeat-obama-73108/
lifenews.com/2012/09/19/michigan-pro-life-group-endorses-mitt-romney-for-president/
vshl.org/romney-ryan-prolife-ticket.html
nrlpac.org/

In 2002 when Romney is considered to have been pro-choice, so was I. In fact, I was very much so. Today, I am as pro-life as they come. In short, I had a conversion. There is no reason to my understanding that Romney could not have done the same. Also consider Paul Ryan. Does he strike you as someone who would chuck their pro-life beliefs out the door in order to run for VP?

Some things I hope you will prayerfully consider.

Peace,
 
What do you do when you don’t believe the lesser of two evils is being truthful? Are you required to vote for someone you think is a liar who takes positions solely for political purposes?
At the least, one would have to recognize that the Republican Vice Presidential Candidate Ryan is pro-life and indeed Catholic. But it is your vote.
 
I think that’s just a cop-out on here to avoid meaningful discussion.

Funny, I’ve never seen or heard an actual person call Obama Hilter, but I’ve seen democrats compare him to Bush.

Abortion is murder and intrinsically evil.

The idea that big government, whether it’s R, I or D, is helpful to the poor is a costly myth that has been circulating around Catholic circles like a plague.

The amount damage this kind of thinking has done is enormous.

First of all, conservatives, while making less on the average than liberals, give four times as much to charity than the left does.

I guess it’s a little different when it’s your own money and not other people’s, huh?

Government and charity cannot be used as a one-two punch. Because charity is private and bloated government needs funds from the private sector to continue, they are direct competitors.

Secondly, the so-called “war on poverty” has cost us 16 trillion dollars…and the poverty rate has gone up 0.3% since LBJ’s scheme.

Third, all that generous, feel-good aid to Africa in the last 60 years has increased their poverty by more than five times.

Government “help” pretty much always leads to corruption and scandal, which along with sins of omission and** lack of fraternal correction**, are often lost and forgotten.
SuperLuigi,

I have already addressed all these issues you quoted. If this is your way of throwing stones at me, I will turn those stones into bread and feed them back to you as a remembrance… of me… 🙂

je333
 
There is nothing wrong with not voting for either candidate. There is something wrong with voting for Obama. I know many good conservative catholics who are not voting for either Romney or Obama. I don’t think they are sinning for not voting for Romney if that what you are implying. Romney isn’t entirely pro-life and he has sent many mixed messages about gay adoption. He is very flawed in my opinion. Obama is a disaster though. No catholic has any excuse voting for him.
And what might be the reason for your oposition to gay adoption?
 
Hi, Ishii,

Yours is an excellent post - clear and valid in all points. 👍

Here is a very interesting item that I would encourage all on the thread to read: catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=2306 It answers a numbrer of interesting questions about this up-coming election.

God bless
Cardinal Francis George said in 2010:

“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square.”

This is an important election. Every election is important but the stakes are much higher this time around because so many of our freedoms are at stake. I suppose an independent (non-Dem/Rep) voter might say " we’ve already lost our freedoms" but the reality is, with an Obama victory, we might well get to the point of no return. With Romney/Ryan, atleast we would have an administration that is sympathetic to the values of Christianity and conservatism, instead of outright hostility of Obama admin. Think about that: the Obama administration is hostile to the values of the Catholic church and conservatism. Therefore, for a Catholic, the moral imperative is to defeat Obama. That is not accomplished by people sitting on the sidelines lecturing everyone else while they stay home on election day. There are enough ignorant Catholics voting for Obama already. We don’t need informed Catholics to sit this one out - too much is at stake.

Ishii
 
Hi, Pork Roll,

One does not have to vote for either Romney or Obama - one does have to find a moral candidate and then vote the dictates of their conscience. The burden is on the voter to make a moral choice from the candidates running and then vote that choice.

To think that evil will somehow go away because we choose to not engage is folly.

God bless
There is nothing wrong with not voting for either candidate. There is something wrong with voting for Obama. I know many good conservative catholics who are not voting for either Romney or Obama. I don’t think they are sinning for not voting for Romney if that what you are implying. Romney isn’t entirely pro-life and he has sent many mixed messages about gay adoption. He is very flawed in my opinion. Obama is a disaster though. No catholic has any excuse voting for him.
 
There is nothing wrong with not voting for either candidate. There is something wrong with voting for Obama. I know many good conservative catholics who are not voting for either Romney or Obama. I don’t think they are sinning for not voting for Romney if that what you are implying. Romney isn’t entirely pro-life and he has sent many mixed messages about gay adoption. He*** is very flawed in my opinion. Obama is a disaster though***. No catholic has any excuse voting for him.
(my bold/italics)

Pork Roll, your post is a good argument for voting for Romney. Did you intend that? Obama is a disaster - just as you say. Romney is flawed. Seems to me a no brainer who we should vote for based on that alone. But here is another reason: Obama is opposed and hostile to, Catholic values. Romney/Ryan are sympathetic to them. I am not saying it is necessarily a grave sin to not vote for Romney, but I do think that if one looks at the differences with an open mind, then the moral imperative to vote for Romney is quite clear. We need to vote for the guy who, even though he is flawed, is not a disaster for Catholic values, and to our country. This is a no-brainer.

Ishii
 
Obama Didn’t Save the Auto Industry: He Took Away 2,200 Dealerships and 120,000 Jobs

laycatholics.org/2012/10/01/obama-didnt-save-the-auto-industry-he-took-away-2200-dealerships-and-120000-jobs/
The President ignored the fact that auto dealers are not an expense to automakers. Auto makers own none of what you see at auto dealerships. Auto dealers own all their property; the cars and trucks, parts, buildings, land, signs, everything. The dealerships pay their employee’s salaries and millions of dollars in taxes to state and local governments. The manufacturer has nothing to do with any of these things.
  • President Obama purposefully and unjustly took away 2,200 self-sufficient, family owned businesses under the false premise that they were an expense on their auto manufacturer. He deliberately put these people in debt with no way to recover. Auto dealers still cannot sell their closed properties.
  • President Obama’s decision to close dealerships cost 120,000 persons their jobs and livelihood.
  • The President’s action defrauded auto dealers of their property rights and their employees of their wages.
The President’s actions against auto dealers violated the Catholic social teaching principles of social justice and the common good by removing owners rights to their property and defrauding workers of their wages. His actions (he calls it “shared sacrifice”) were an example of collectivism, centralized planning and socialism.
 
No catholic has any excuse voting for him.
Thanks for your expert opinion. This Catholic has reasons for supporting Obama against Romney, reasons that are firmly rooted in her faith.

Thankfully, nobody’s character or Christianity is measured solely by their stance on abortion. There is, in my mind, much that needs to be assessed with regard to faith in this election, so I will support the candidate who my faith-formed conscience can best abide, your expert opinion notwithstanding.
 
And what might be the reason for your oposition to gay adoption?
Gay relationship are unstable and research shows that children who are not raised by their biological parents are not as well off in numerous statistical categories.
 
Thanks for your expert opinion. This Catholic has reasons for supporting Obama against Romney, reasons that are firmly rooted in her faith.

I’ve been blogging for a long time and I have observed that a lot of people in this country vote for their own selfish reasons.

It’s something all of us need to be aware of and think twice about.

I think those who support the president really need to examine if government really does help people. We’ve spent over 16 trillion dollars on the “war on poverty” and since that began the poverty rate has gone up, not down.
Thankfully, nobody’s character or Christianity is measured solely by their stance on abortion.
Catholic teaching is very clear: Even those with one mortal sin on their soul arrive as an enemy before God after death.

You can be the most powerful saint but if you had a mortal sin on your soul at time of death, it does mean you die as a enemy of God. Regardless of how much you think you are “helping the poor” (big government actually makes that worse, but that’s another discussion); if you die with a mortal sin on your soul, it’s a big problem.

Those who support this president have a lot to lose and if he does win, they will find out very quickly just how much the Ds and the big-government Is and Rs care about them.

Unless you are well-connected, it will be a very painful lesson.
 
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