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SuperLuigi
Guest
Gay divorce rates are either comparable to or much higher than those in straight relationship.
The GLBTQ community is not a safety net for the failure of straight marriages.
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The GLBTQ community is not a safety net for the failure of straight marriages.
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Seekerz,
And, since you brought up the topic - just what would those reasons be?
By the way, did you happen to read any of these documents:
usccb.org/news/2012/12-135.cfm
usccb.org/news/2012/12-129.cfm
usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/upload/Twelve-Things-Everyone-Should-Know-About-the-Contraceptive-Mandate.pdf
Kindly address these concerns by the US Bishops in your response.
Thank you
God bless
And, since you brought up the topic - just what would those reasons be?
By the way, did you happen to read any of these documents:
usccb.org/news/2012/12-135.cfm
usccb.org/news/2012/12-129.cfm
usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/upload/Twelve-Things-Everyone-Should-Know-About-the-Contraceptive-Mandate.pdf
Kindly address these concerns by the US Bishops in your response.
Thank you
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Tampa Dave,
Two items:
In December my wife and I will have been married 42 years - and you know… she still teaches the torches to burn bright. We have 2 married daughters and the best imaginable sons-in-law … they put up with my daughters!
We have 4 grandchildren - all growing by leaps and bounds.
Ah, now the second item… divorce rates (statistical data) are immaterial to this discussion. In the very beginning (Genesis) God did not create 2 men…or 2 women and blessed their union. Men and women are not only biologically different - but ‘hardwired’ in a totally different ways. Children need these difference so that they can develop properly - little girls growing into women and having their father’s to show them a male example. Little boys growing into men and having their mother’s to show them a female example. The essence of a family is to preserve the species. Homosexuality is just a hedonistic leap off of the cliff - leading only to destruction. And all the way down - instead of being in a panic, they are encouraging others to take the same leap.
God bless
Two items:
In December my wife and I will have been married 42 years - and you know… she still teaches the torches to burn bright. We have 2 married daughters and the best imaginable sons-in-law … they put up with my daughters!
We have 4 grandchildren - all growing by leaps and bounds.Ah, now the second item… divorce rates (statistical data) are immaterial to this discussion. In the very beginning (Genesis) God did not create 2 men…or 2 women and blessed their union. Men and women are not only biologically different - but ‘hardwired’ in a totally different ways. Children need these difference so that they can develop properly - little girls growing into women and having their father’s to show them a male example. Little boys growing into men and having their mother’s to show them a female example. The essence of a family is to preserve the species. Homosexuality is just a hedonistic leap off of the cliff - leading only to destruction. And all the way down - instead of being in a panic, they are encouraging others to take the same leap.
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Je333,
It really is not a good argument to go to extremes to try and prove a point. One could argue that it is better to get into a leaky boat rather then drown - but, if fixing the leaking dam to prevent the disaster is never discussed (that would kill the argument).
In the real world there are injustices, inequities, and all manner of inequity. Adding to it with the idea of releaving it only sounds nice - but, like the leaking dam, it will soon fail and cause nothing but havoc.
No matter how one argues that they can do what they want whenever they want with whomever they want are selfish, self-seeking and totally destructive. Would anyone argue that allowing a child to play with razor blades is prudent? People act as though there is no choice in this matter - but, that too is false. Unless the claim of homosexual behavior is somehow being linked with the surrender of one’s free will - there really is no argument here.
One of the more intriguing aspects of ‘intrinsic evil’ is that no matter how one tries to paint over it - its debased nature always showst through to those who are not also painting their eyes closed.
God bless
It really is not a good argument to go to extremes to try and prove a point. One could argue that it is better to get into a leaky boat rather then drown - but, if fixing the leaking dam to prevent the disaster is never discussed (that would kill the argument).
In the real world there are injustices, inequities, and all manner of inequity. Adding to it with the idea of releaving it only sounds nice - but, like the leaking dam, it will soon fail and cause nothing but havoc.
No matter how one argues that they can do what they want whenever they want with whomever they want are selfish, self-seeking and totally destructive. Would anyone argue that allowing a child to play with razor blades is prudent? People act as though there is no choice in this matter - but, that too is false. Unless the claim of homosexual behavior is somehow being linked with the surrender of one’s free will - there really is no argument here.
One of the more intriguing aspects of ‘intrinsic evil’ is that no matter how one tries to paint over it - its debased nature always showst through to those who are not also painting their eyes closed.
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Mary Bobo,
Pause?! I would have thought it would have stopped Catholics cold in their tracks. Those who wave the banner about so-called Social Justice miss the point that about saving the unborn from butchery in their mother’s wombs - here is a link from the US Bishops: old.usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/96rlpgeo.shtml
But, it would be a major oversight to neglect how our President actually does business. He simply rules by edict. Single-handedly he determined that the Defense of Marriage Act - a Federal Law - would not be enforced - and, his Attorney General just went along with it. Does anyone in this Administration really know how this country is designed to work - per the Consitituion.
Our President has major flaws - and one of the biggest is his attack on the Catholic Church. Those Catholics who think that supporting the President is the morally correct choice - should carefully look at all of the records. We will all be held accountable on how we vote this election.
God bless
Pause?! I would have thought it would have stopped Catholics cold in their tracks. Those who wave the banner about so-called Social Justice miss the point that about saving the unborn from butchery in their mother’s wombs - here is a link from the US Bishops: old.usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/96rlpgeo.shtml
But, it would be a major oversight to neglect how our President actually does business. He simply rules by edict. Single-handedly he determined that the Defense of Marriage Act - a Federal Law - would not be enforced - and, his Attorney General just went along with it. Does anyone in this Administration really know how this country is designed to work - per the Consitituion.
Our President has major flaws - and one of the biggest is his attack on the Catholic Church. Those Catholics who think that supporting the President is the morally correct choice - should carefully look at all of the records. We will all be held accountable on how we vote this election.
God bless
P
ProVobis
Guest
He may be attacking the Catholic Church but that’s difficult to see with his working relations with Pelosi, Biden, Sibelius, et al. From his standpoint, he doesn’t care about their standing within the Church. Not defending him, just saying.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, ProVobis,
Honestly, what difficulties do you see with identifying Obama as someone attacking the Catholic Church. Pelosi, Biden and Sibelius simply have ignored the Church’s teachings on anything they did not like… and, yes, abortion comes immediately to mind. But, truly, while he may have a lot of supporting characters, President Obama is in a class by himself.
By the way, did you have a chance to see those links I posted from the US Bishops to the post written by Seekerz? They apparently do not have any difficulties seeing Obama for what he is. I think there is a lesson there.
God bless
Honestly, what difficulties do you see with identifying Obama as someone attacking the Catholic Church. Pelosi, Biden and Sibelius simply have ignored the Church’s teachings on anything they did not like… and, yes, abortion comes immediately to mind. But, truly, while he may have a lot of supporting characters, President Obama is in a class by himself.
By the way, did you have a chance to see those links I posted from the US Bishops to the post written by Seekerz? They apparently do not have any difficulties seeing Obama for what he is. I think there is a lesson there.
God bless
J
je333
Guest
Brother, we are talking about adoption and not homosexual persecution. My understanding of my Christian faith is than when a person responds to the need of family less children and is trying to help those children and provide them the love and care they need, then that is a very Christian thing to do.Hi, Tampa Dave,
Two items:
In December my wife and I will have been married 42 years - and you know… she still teaches the torches to burn bright. We have 2 married daughters and the best imaginable sons-in-law … they put up with my daughters!
Ah, now the second item… divorce rates (statistical data) are immaterial to this discussion. In the very beginning (Genesis) God did not create 2 men…or 2 women and blessed their union. Men and women are not only biologically different - but ‘hardwired’ in a totally different ways. Children need these difference so that they can develop properly - little girls growing into women and having their father’s to show them a male example. Little boys growing into men and having their mother’s to show them a female example. The essence of a family is to preserve the species. Homosexuality is just a hedonistic leap off of the cliff - leading only to destruction. And all the way down - instead of being in a panic, they are encouraging others to take the same leap.
God bless
Many homosexuals, 99.9% of them grew up in a straight family and environment. Why was that not an influence in their sexuality?
J
je333
Guest
Can you give me more of concrete statements on just what you are referring to like “drowning” “leaking dam.”
S
spiritualman
Guest
My Catholic in-laws sent me this link today about voting for our values:
youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd
Nice video.
sm
youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd
Nice video.
sm
J
je333
Guest
Tom, do you knoow that God’s love and mercy is much greater than the most evilest sin you can imagine? He has proven that by allowing himself to be humiliated, condemned, persecuted to death on the cross. He loves sinners even the women who’ve allowed themselves be weak in the responsible parenting decisions and homosexuals. He died for their sins as well as yours. He just wishes that you would extend the same love, mercy and compassion to sinners you condemn as evil. How can God have mercy on you when you can’t forgive your brothers who are different?
It’s one thing to hate the sins but it’s another to hate the sinners. IMHO, you have failed to love the sinners.
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
Tom has not attacked the persons as “evil.” He has identified the activity as intrinsically evil, which it is.
And you have no basis on which to state that he “hates” sinners (or “fails to love” them).
I
ishii
Guest
There is a saying, " hate the sin, love the sinner." I don’t think the posters are talking about hating any sinners, just sins. But in hating sins, we need to look at our own sins and hate them, first and foremost.
Ishii
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Elizabeth502
Guest
There are many, many posters on CAF who can remember a time not very long ago when those who opposed the core teachings of the Church ceased identifying themselves publicly as Catholic. Even people without very much formal education. They understood clearly that there was no such thing as an invented Catholicism, a “personal” or “private” Catholicism. When they came to a fork in the road (which many did!) – such as an unwillingness to refrain from remarriage after divorce, such as weekly Mass or the Easter obligation, such as disinterest in the spiritual and practical discipline which assumes some regularity with Confession, they generally did not parade a watered down faith, hypocritcally.
When the question came up in social circles, they would say honestly, “I’m not really a practicing Catholic any more; I used to be.” Also, more often than not, a respect remained – not only for the teachings and for the permanent moral authority of the Church, but for personal truth/witness itself. IOW, they honored the standard of conforming one’s beliefs (and one’s attempt at a conforming personal behavior) with the official, orthodox standards laid out by their Church. So, the admission of not practicing any more was followed quickly with an acknowledgement of weakness on their part – as opposed to a complaint about the Church or a prideful assertion of superior personal “authority” versus the Roman Church. (There was invariably a comment which accompanied – something like…“but I know I should be [a better Catholic, a practicing Catholic,”] etc.) Not, “I think the Church is wrong,” or “I think the Church should change with the times,” or “I have an independent conscience which disagrees with the Church.” They “got it” that if their conscience “disagreed,” the truth was on the side of the Church, and it was their own thinking that was amiss. It was merely that they had succumbed to their own weakness (they offered).
It is sometimes assumed that a misinterpretation of Vatican 2 is the root of all the misguided spinoffs of the self as the center of moral authority, but lately I have come to believe, that while such misinterpretation is an amazingly convenient excuse, the real reason may lie more with the tendencies in society over the last 20 years to claim personal expertise in all matters, including religion. (“Everybody’s an expert.”) Asserting expertise is also a means to claiming authority.
JMO
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je333
Guest
Maybe. I might have prejudged him. I need to go back and review his previous posts. One thing is for sure that Tom had called Obama “evil” and “murderous president.” I felt as if he is focusing so much on the sins of the people but is failing to utter any love and compassion to the sinners. Just my honest opinion and observation.
J
je333
Guest
Sure! I can agree to that.
J
je333
Guest
The LGBT community, if willing, could provide a safety net for unwanted babies or children without a family.
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Je333,
Let me get to this post first - and make a general comment about the other two addressed to me.
No one is talking about ‘persecution’ or of being other-wise uncharitable to someone who claims to have an inclination to someone of the same sex. What is clearly being addressed is behavior - and this behavior has already been identified by the Catholic Church as ‘intrinisc evil’. I think the Catholic Church is well aware of the Love of God and how He extended Himself to all of us sinners.
There are some real concerns about homosexual behavior being impressed upon an impressionable child as a ‘normal’ response. But, let’s not get carried away - let’s imagine something totally different. Imagine if you will a ‘Straight Pride’ group - these would be hetersexual males and females - some single, some couples demonstrating in-your-face their sexual orientation. There would be banners (I guess black and white would be appropriate - but, I would leave that decision to others…) and yes, babies would be carried and baby buggies/strollers decorated and all manner of demonstrations of how God’s work is manifest in Genesis when He made male and female and joined them together. I started off by saying to use your imagination … this is necessary because such events really do not exist - at least as far as I know.
Now, let’s take a look at another group. This would be a group that ‘celebrates’ how they have sex - with whomever they wish and wherever they want. They accuse those who do not agree with them of being closed-minded, hatefully motivated and determined to persecute them out of existence. Being a minority - a truly small minority, as far as we know - they are claiming discrimination and have begun to compare themselves to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s. And, as we see them on parade we notice their banner proclaiming the rights of those who wish to engage in pedophilia. Hmmmmmmmmm. I think the comparrison is appropriate: both groups (Gay Pride and ‘Pedi Pride’) have soooooooo much in common it is astounding. At one time homosexual behavior (sodomy) was illegal - now, the SC struck it down. Today pediphilia is illegal - but, who is to say that some judge or judges won’t do the same. After all, we are after the freedom of individuals to express themselves as they wish - and, that is all that matters.
While it may seem easy to dismiss my imaginary ‘Pedi Pride’ group - to be honest about it - one has to say just why it is different from ‘Gay Pride’ and their goals. Remember, a child can easily express themselves as to what they want - there is no need for parental supervision when people are free to express themselves. And, don’t forget, Christ died for all of these sinners, too!
My guess is that there is no honest way to discriminate against one while promoting the other. Both would be called ‘intrisic evil’ by the Church - but, really, that is of little consequence to those who want to fight prejudice and be free of restraint.
Give it some thought. And, then, kindly share those thoughts with those on this thread.
God bless
Let me get to this post first - and make a general comment about the other two addressed to me.
No one is talking about ‘persecution’ or of being other-wise uncharitable to someone who claims to have an inclination to someone of the same sex. What is clearly being addressed is behavior - and this behavior has already been identified by the Catholic Church as ‘intrinisc evil’. I think the Catholic Church is well aware of the Love of God and how He extended Himself to all of us sinners.
There are some real concerns about homosexual behavior being impressed upon an impressionable child as a ‘normal’ response. But, let’s not get carried away - let’s imagine something totally different. Imagine if you will a ‘Straight Pride’ group - these would be hetersexual males and females - some single, some couples demonstrating in-your-face their sexual orientation. There would be banners (I guess black and white would be appropriate - but, I would leave that decision to others…) and yes, babies would be carried and baby buggies/strollers decorated and all manner of demonstrations of how God’s work is manifest in Genesis when He made male and female and joined them together. I started off by saying to use your imagination … this is necessary because such events really do not exist - at least as far as I know.
Now, let’s take a look at another group. This would be a group that ‘celebrates’ how they have sex - with whomever they wish and wherever they want. They accuse those who do not agree with them of being closed-minded, hatefully motivated and determined to persecute them out of existence. Being a minority - a truly small minority, as far as we know - they are claiming discrimination and have begun to compare themselves to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s. And, as we see them on parade we notice their banner proclaiming the rights of those who wish to engage in pedophilia. Hmmmmmmmmm. I think the comparrison is appropriate: both groups (Gay Pride and ‘Pedi Pride’) have soooooooo much in common it is astounding. At one time homosexual behavior (sodomy) was illegal - now, the SC struck it down. Today pediphilia is illegal - but, who is to say that some judge or judges won’t do the same. After all, we are after the freedom of individuals to express themselves as they wish - and, that is all that matters.
While it may seem easy to dismiss my imaginary ‘Pedi Pride’ group - to be honest about it - one has to say just why it is different from ‘Gay Pride’ and their goals. Remember, a child can easily express themselves as to what they want - there is no need for parental supervision when people are free to express themselves. And, don’t forget, Christ died for all of these sinners, too!
My guess is that there is no honest way to discriminate against one while promoting the other. Both would be called ‘intrisic evil’ by the Church - but, really, that is of little consequence to those who want to fight prejudice and be free of restraint.
Give it some thought. And, then, kindly share those thoughts with those on this thread.
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
P
ProVobis
Guest
Not really. Just like all other elected politicians, he’s in it to get votes and if he sees so many support such-and-such position, that’s the position he’ll take. In fact, Romney is doing the same thing with his etch-a-sketch rhetoric.
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