Do we vote for the lesser of two evils?

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MJE said:
Please tell me the “intrinsic evil” that Paul Ryan and those of us who support the Romney/Ryan ticket are endorsing.
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Here is the choice in this election:

Obama - supports the intrinsic evils of legal abortion, contraception, and “marriage equality”

Romney - will acquiesce in the continuance of legal abortion, contraception, and “marriage equality”.

The choice, from that perspective, is not stark at all. Same old same old going on 40 years now.

Forget politics. The culture is corrupt and needs to change. Corrupt culture means corrupt politics. Heal the culture and the politics will heal. Make the culture more Catholic and purge it of unholy influences, and politics will become amenable to finally getting rid of abortion.
 
gnjsdad said:
Here is the choice in this election:

Obama - supports the intrinsic evils of legal abortion, contraception, and “marriage equality”

Romney - will acquiesce in the continuance of legal abortion, contraception, and “marriage equality”.
The choice, from that perspective, is not stark at all. Same old same old going on 40 years now.

Forget politics. The culture is corrupt and needs to change. Corrupt culture means corrupt politics. Heal the culture and the politics will heal. Make the culture more Catholic and purge it of unholy influences, and politics will become amenable to finally getting rid of abortion.
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*gnjsdad,

How do you know this about Gov. Romney?*
 
Obama has cut Medicare more than Romney and Ryan would

As to the supposedly draconian nature of Paul Ryan’s Medicare cuts, they’re only exceeded by the severity of the Medicare cuts in…Obamacare.

According to the latest estimates from the Congressional Budget Office, Obamacare will reduce Medicare spending by approximately $743 billion between 2013 and 2022, relative to prior law. These cuts directly affect current retirees. By contrast, both the Romney and Wyden-Ryan plans only affect retirees younger than 55. In other words, for better or worse, President Obama cuts Medicare more than Romney would.

forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/08/11/why-the-democrats-mediscare-attack-wont-work-against-paul-ryan/
 
simple_soul said:
gnjsdad,

How do you know this about Gov. Romney?
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He is acting the way Republicans who aspire to national office typically act.

Has he even given one major policy address highlighting the intolerability of legal abortion and what his administration plans to do about it? If so, I haven’t heard it.
 
Paul Ryan, Joe Biden, and Liberal False Equivalence

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=34477
As Josh Mercer noted earlier today, Mitt Romney’s selection of Paul Ryan as his vice-presidential running mate sets up a stark contrast between the two Catholics on the two contending national-tickets. This contrast will, of course, be somewhat embarrassing to liberal Catholics who want to support Biden. They will no doubt resort to their usual tactic in trying to overcome or obscure this embarrassment: setting up a false equivalence between the candidates based on a false equivalence between issues. “Well,” they will say, “Biden may be wrong on abortion and marriage, but Ryan is wrong about our obligations to the poor and vulnerable. He is, after all, the author of the Ryan budget plan, which will cut government services to the poor and vulnerable.”
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Helping the poor and vulnerable is a good thing to do. As is the case with most of the good things that human beings can do, the Catholic Church does not presume to prescribe exactly how it is to be done. This is a matter in which human prudence is free to choose the most effective means to the desirable end. And because prudence is free in this realm, different citizens are free to contend for different ways to accomplish what must be done. It is true, as liberals are likely to emphasize, that Catholic social teaching acknowledges the obligation of government to see to the care of the poor and vulnerable, at least when the institutions of civil society prove ineffective. But here again the Church does not presume to specify exactly the kind or extent of government assistance.
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In this light, it ought to be clear not only that Ryan’s “wrongness” is not equivalent to Biden’s, but also that it is in fact presumptuous for any Catholic to say at all that Ryan is “wrong” on Catholic principles in relation to care for the poor and vulnerable, since he does not reject the idea of social obligations to them. The most you could say is that, as a matter of opinion in the realm where citizens are free to form different opinions, you think Ryan’s approach to these matters is mistaken. The case of Biden is altogether different. According to Catholic teaching, abortion is a serious evil. There is no free-play for prudence in deciding how to do something evil: it is just not to be done. This is not to say that there is an official, obligatory Catholic position on exactly how the law should handle abortion. But I think it is safe to say that someone, like Joe Biden, who contends that this evil should be treated as a constitutional right is not square with the Church’s teaching on a matter of fundamental moral importance. The same thing goes for marriage. From the standpoint of Catholic teaching, the definition of marriage that Biden would like to establish in law is not just imprudent but false. No obedient Catholic could go along with it.
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gnjsdad said:
He is acting the way Republicans who aspire to national office typically act.
Has he even given one major policy address highlighting the intolerability of legal abortion and what his administration plans to do about it? If so, I haven’t heard it.
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*Not quite, there is something different about how and what he is doing. I do not know how far he will take it but putting Paul Ryan on the ticket has given me great hope and encouragement.
The one line from Paul Ryan’s Acceptance Speech that I believe drew the most applause was, “But America is more than just a place…it’s an idea. It’s the only country founded on an idea. Our rights come from nature and God, not government. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
I believe people are tired they want to have faith again. They want to believe in America again but more importantly they want to believe in something bigger than themselves again. They want to beleive in God,Truth,Principals, Integrity, and Honesty with love and respect for each other. I believe they want to have a moral compass to live by again. I do believe that they are actually hungry for it. They want to beleive in who and what they are again abd they do not want to be demonized for it. They want that respect and dignity again that is our God given right and one of our countries founding principals. So yes I do see something different in how Gov. Romney is going about this ellection. He is still playing by the basic rules but he is trying to put something more into it. I believe it is called a moral compass. Here is a link to the full speech from Fox News. youtube.com/watch?v=QrRBXKgAxSs
*
 
rotlex said:
You can add me to the list as someone not only willing, but who will, be voting 3rd party this time around.
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I think most of us would oppose evil actively if it invaded our own homes. We would not just say “Oh, home invaders are bad, but sometimes the police use excessive force, so I won’t call them either. I’ll just tell my cousin about it even though he lives 1000 miles away and can’t possibly help.”

Why some people refuse to oppose the evils of abortion, human vivisection and homosexual “marriage” because of far lesser issues is difficult for me to comprehend.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Why some people refuse to oppose the evils of abortion, human vivisection and homosexual “marriage” because of far lesser issues is difficult for me to comprehend.
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Wait, are you saying that voting for a pro-life 3rd party is refusal to oppose abortion? I ask because your comment came in reply to a person who said they would vote 3rd party.
 
Lesser of two evils?

I have witnessed the demonic actions of the current administration…especially their unmitigated support for abortion at any stage of pregnancy. I have not witnessed any evil from the Romney ticket. And so I will vote against the obvious and apparent evil.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I think most of us would oppose evil actively if it invaded our own homes. We would not just say “Oh, home invaders are bad, but sometimes the police use excessive force, so I won’t call them either. I’ll just tell my cousin about it even though he lives 1000 miles away and can’t possibly help.”
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That’s how you view this election? You’ve a vivid imagination. And, no, I’m not voting 3rd party. I’m not voting for either Presidential candidate.
 
IMO, the topic contains a ridiculous premise.
**
We always vote for the lesser of two evils. Always! **

Since every person sins, and since some sin less that others, we always vote for sinners of some level or another. Our task–imo–is to choose the person that holds values closest to our own, with policy positions that will advance a moral cause (more than the other candidates). And, of course, as good Catholics, we are never to help further a cause for intrinsic evil (better not to vote at all, than to help make grave sin spread further).
 
Does anyone here really, in their heart of hearts believe that in the vast breadth and width of our nation-THIS is the BEST we can put forward??
 
Seeker1961 said:
Does anyone here really, in their heart of hearts believe that in the vast breadth and width of our nation-THIS is the BEST we can put forward??
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Nope, but it’s irrelevant at this point. If you want the best, better start now for the next election.🤷
 
Ridgerunner said:
I think most of us would oppose evil actively if it invaded our own homes. We would not just say “Oh, home invaders are bad, but sometimes the police use excessive force, so I won’t call them either. I’ll just tell my cousin about it even though he lives 1000 miles away and can’t possibly help.”

Why some people refuse to oppose the evils of abortion, human vivisection and homosexual “marriage” because of far lesser issues is difficult for me to comprehend.
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Because those ‘far lesser issues’ are not important to you, while they are important to others.

I’ll tell you though, you can learn a lot from this forum. I don’t know anything about Ryan. But reading posts from his supporters last night and this morning here on this forum has enlightened me quite a bit. You can tell a lot about a candidate by what their supportors rant about in their favor. Reading things about favoring elderly and disabled to sell their homes (and live on the street) to pay for their healthcare, or if they’re too old and sick to pay for healthcare then they shouldn’t get it, that elderly and disabled can certainly find some job to pay for their own healthcare, etc., was pretty enlightening about what people think is important and what is not. And some of the things that are very important to people are the roofs over their heads and the food they eat and their health, and yeah, other things will take a backseat to that. Some people think that the already-born are important too. That said, some people, even Catholics, will vote for Obama again, and there’s nothing someone who spews hellfire and brimstone about that choice can do about it except blow off steam.
 
Keep in mind that Romney supports and has participated via his son and daughter in law, in vitro fertilization, and supports the destruction of unused embryos through macabre harvesting for scientific research.

He is pro-life, except when it comes to self-serving interest.

Jim
 
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