Do Women Belong to Their Fathers Until They Get Married?

[Tis_Bearself]

And many many priests we have in our diocese are foreign. They have little concept of American culture, advice from them could be spotty.

I’ve dealt with priests in US dioceses who are from other countries in Africa, Latin America, and Europe. All of them had spent enough time getting acclimated to USA that they knew how to advise Americans like myself (cradle Catholic, born in USA, parents born in USA, everybody in the extended family born in USA except one grandparent from Ontario, Canada which is pretty much same culture) just fine. One of my regular confessors right now is from Cameroon. He’s awesome.

There is nothing spotty or strange or foreign about the advice of these priests. If anything, some of them are holier than the guys born and raised in the neighboring US suburbs.

And yes, some of them speak with an accent. I work for a global company with HQ in continental Europe and everybody I work with all day speaks English with an accent. They’re all perfectly understandable nevertheless, and so are the priests.

It’s not like Father from Cameroon advises me to act like women in Cameroon or Father from Poland wants me to be Polish.

 

[Sarcelle]

So if you are a big proponent of fathers exercising spiritual authority over their daughters, am I wrong for making the decision to be Catholic?

My father is an atheist and he wants me to be an atheist. Should I have acquiesced to his wishes and remain an atheist?

Not all fathers are faithful Catholics.

 

[Sarcelle]

Indeed.

I had a really great spiritual advisor from Nigeria. These foreign priests aren’t stupid. Of course they will learn and can learn about the American cultural landscape.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Margaret_Ann:

In the Byzantine Tradition, the bride & groom walk down the aisle together.

Actually, that’s what the Latin Catholic rite calls for, too, but that isn’t what’s customary in the West, so we get the fashion show processions…
[/quote]

I don’t like the “fashion show processions” either.

When my sister & BIL got married, my father gave my sister away. The wedding was in his parish which is RC.

It wasn’t part of the ritual, though… right?
[/quote]

TBH, I have no idea. My BIL might have walked down the aisle with his mom but I’d have to look at the wedding pictures (which are still buried in my piles of stuff - I’m still not totally unpacked from moving in 2+ months ago ).

 

[redcatholic]

Ok and some priests are not good Catholics either. But we are talking about Catholics here. The pope does not claim spiritual authority over non Catholics or non Christians. Nor does a priest in the Mormon faith have any bearing or authority over e or my wife or my kids as Catholics.
I do feel much better having re read the catechism on the role of parents, which as Catholics seems to be the ultimate authority that is not God himself. Once these things and the extent of the role of a priest get settled. Then we can move onto the far more prickly subject of daughters and wives! Lol.

 

[DeniseNY]

Mothers/wives have no authority whatsover in the household?

 

[felsguy]

I had this posted earlier, but thought it might have been a bit graphic, so I pulled it, but after reading more of your posts, I think I see where you’re coming from with your concerns. First of all, we can hope and pray that our parish priest or the priest we would take such concerns to, would give answers that are in line with Church teaching and while being pastoral, wouldn’t minimize issues where the very state of our souls rest. That being said, the priest is an ordained man of God, who has the authority to speak on behalf of the Church. Plus priests are specifically trained in areas of spiritual guidance and direction, along with basic counseling on marriage and family issues. When it comes to issues of sexuality, while some families may be very open about discussing things in detail, I don’t think many teen boys or teen girls would feel comfortable telling their parents about their struggle with porn or masturbation. This is why you read answers on this forum about speaking with their priest.

IIn my opinion the highlighted statement above would be accurate had you said “some priests” are specifically trained in those areas. Whether “some” means most, a majority, not many, or very few is better left to another thread but my anecdotal experience is certainly not all as the statement suggests.

 

[DeniseNY]

Then I would go back to the question someone asked earlier about how you think this would be applied in daily life.

 

[redcatholic]

Um yeah I do. I pray that mine would. Far far far more than having my daughter go online post about it with us fine folk and be told not to tell me about what they are potentially doing. On my internet or devices but rather go seek the counsel of the parish priest. Honestly I think people are confusing the idea of absolution (something only the priest can do) with being instructed in theology and being educated in the faith. And in this I see the clear authority as the parents. Now, the bigger can of worms is when or even if that transfers to a husband or wife or is the girls or boys own authority, or a priest.
These posts are illuminating how such views of priests and direction even we as laity give our spouses and children can lead Unsafe environments.

 

[redcatholic]

Yeah, I struggle with this. I am “spiritual head” of my family. Including my wife. I’ve used that authority correctly, but Sometimes I’ve abused it and used it incorrectly. Which, along with having several daughters, makes me a little uncomfortable touting this idea of headship of husband. I honestly see the theology of it. I’m just a tad uncomfortable/gun shy of it.

Heavy the head who wears the crown so to speak.

 

[DeniseNY]

I do read scripture. I think some here are taking issue with how you would think authority plays out in everyday situations.

 

[redcatholic]

The catechism addresses the role (authority) of parents and even touches upon any authority or (name removed by moderator)ut on future spouses. 2221-2231. Sorry, can’t figure out how to post it.

 

[redcatholic]

Yes, and sorry for kind of hijacking your thread here but my initial jump into this was the blatant way in which many DONT recoil at this authority being given to a priest but DO recoil at the idea that it is given to a father or husband who should know better and love more the person the have this authority over.

This is fascinating. And I’m surprised at the civility.

 

[redcatholic]

Oh lol. Well I figured it was but when I scroll up, you are correct!

Lol it’s your thread now!

 

[redcatholic]

I’m interested too in how it plays out in everyday situations, but before we get into those weeds we would have to agree the authority exists.

 

[DeniseNY]

I’m interested too in how it plays out in everyday situations, but before we get into those weeds we would have to agree the authority exists.

I think knowing how one sees the extent and level of the authority playing out would be needed before there can be agreement.

 

[redcatholic]

I’m not sure. If someone says it plays out like this… “xyz.” That can only be debated if there is agreement that there is authority and who has it. It’s like saying “does the government have authority?” If you recognize that then we can discuss to what extent that authority is exercised within a particular government. But if you say, no, the government has no authority of the citizens then we cannot discuss the extent of the authority because you believe it’s non existent. So in the context of this thread the question is do you believe the father and then by extension a husband has spiritual authority/headship over the daughter and then wife? While I do believe in that authority and I find it to be quite Catholic, and I think the idea that a date on a calendar should not be the transference of that authority, I also don’t think that I would have spiritual authority over a 56 year old unmarried daughter.

 

[Montrose]

If by Roman Catechism you mean the Council of Trent Catechism, you should instead be using the CCC which is the authoritative catechism. If I am wrong and your quote is from the CCC can you show me where it is.

 

[redcatholic]

This is how threads on Internet forums get ruined. What we are discussing here is a concept. You want specifics so you can disagree or refute the specifics. But not the concept. It’s a tactic much like asking the other poster if he was married. It doesn’t matter the specific example or even the state in life of a particular poster, it’s a concept. If specifics help the discussion of the concept then great, that’s when we all tell our stories like I did upthread about different priests I know. But you can’t say I won’t agree with the concept because I don’t trust the ideas of the person I’m discussing with.

 

[Elizabeth3]

That’s pretty much what I meant when I wrote

As young adults, you may require they follow house rules as a mater of consideration for not only whatever support you are still providing but also for the other members of the house.

In justice, if you are still supporting them financially they should obey reasonable house rules so everyone can live peacefully together. IOW, if you raised them with good moral standards, they should be moved by love and respect to abide by the rules of the house.