Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?

[simpleas]

If so, is it easy to explain?

Is the Kingdom of God a place we might go to after death (Heaven).

Is it both?

This daily mediation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus :

*Jesus himself specifically contradicts it when he says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it.
*

Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

Full mediation :

cac.org/the-kingdom-of-heaven-2017-04-11/

 

[po18guy]

We are temples of God’s Holy Spirit and partakers of the Divine nature - thus the Kingdom has begun within us, but cannot be realized in its fullness on earth. 1 Corinthians 6, 2 Peter 1.

 

[grannymh]

If so, is it easy to explain?

Is the Kingdom of God a place we might go to after death (Heaven).

Is it both?

This daily mediation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus :

Jesus himself specifically contradicts it when he says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it.

Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

Full mediation :

cac.org/the-kingdom-of-heaven-2017-04-11/

Some background before I reply.

To understand this meditation, one needs to study it from the point of Catholic teachings.

One reasonable idea in this meditation is that “the Kingdom of heaven is really a metaphor for state of consciousness…” The reality of that idea is that it eventually bumps against fundamental Catholicism. Then, with sugar words, the metaphor eventually sidesteps the purpose of fundamental Catholicism.

Please, keep responses to this thread to the material presented by the guest writer and CAC faculty member Cynthia Bourgeault.

As part of the background for the meditations, please note that the Reverend Richard Rohr, Director/Head of CAC, is considered a Progressive Christian.This is appealing in our era of emerging Christianity.

Please, keep responses to this thread to the material presented by the guest writer and CAC faculty member.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[ANV]

Yes and no. I don’t believe in a god but I believe it in a non literal way because it may have expanded meanings that exclude the literal belief of a personal god, and I believe that’s what the real Christianity is about.

 

[simpleas]

We are temples of God’s Holy Spirit and partakers of the Divine nature - thus the Kingdom has begun within us, but cannot be realized in its fullness on earth. 1 Corinthians 6, 2 Peter 1.

Could you explain how we are partakers in the Divine nature. I often hear we can share in God’s own life, yet that puzzles me. Being mortals, how is it we can share in the supernatural?

Thanks.

 

[grannymh]

Could you explain how we are partakers in the Divine nature. I often hear we can share in God’s own life, yet that puzzles me. Being mortals, how is it we can share in the supernatural?

Thanks.

Yes, we are mortals with a decomposing anatomy. But that is not all we are. We are also a spiritual being, Genesis 1:27. Because we are an unique unification of both the material world and the supernatural spiritual world–our soul, God has given us the power to share in His life.

Note: the word partakers is another way of expressing our sharing.

 

[grannymh]

To understand the difference between the lion and the human, we begin with Genesis 1: 1. This understanding is basic to our belief in the State of Sanctifying Grace. We need to ground ourselves in God’s love. Genesis 1: 27. And only then can we travel to the height of the Kingdom of God.

 

[simpleas]

Transformation is an interesting topic that is mentioned in the mediation.

Sharing in God’s own life, whatever that really means, we should see a more ‘divine’ way of living, yet we repeat the same mistakes over and over. God’s Grace is supposed to be enough.
I wonder how much of the supernatural we actually transform into, not that I mean we become God, or a god, but that we become Christ like, in ability to be able to say and do that which is right.

 

[grannymh]

Transformation is an interesting topic that is mentioned in the mediation.

Sharing in God’s own life, whatever that really means,

In the Catholic Church, that really means that a person is in the State of Sanctifying Grace. (CCC Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898)

One is in a personal friendship relationship with the Creator God.

 

[grannymh]

Transformation is an interesting topic that is mentioned in the mediation.

Sharing in God’s own life, whatever that really means, we should see a more ‘divine’ way of living, yet we repeat the same mistakes over and over. God’s Grace is supposed to be enough.
I wonder how much of the supernatural we actually transform into, not that I mean we become God, or a god, but that we become Christ like, in ability to be able to say and do that which is right.

When you say “God’s Grace is supposed to be enough.” –

Are you referring to the State of Sanctifying Grace, which we are freely capable of destroying?
(CCC Glossary, Mortal Sin, page 889)

Or are your referring to Actual Graces. (CCC 2000; CCC 2024) Please note that the State of Sanctifying Grace is permanent until we commit Mortal Sin. Actual Graces are not permanent. They refer to God’s interventions, that is, He gives us grace for a specific reason or purpose. We can ignore Actual Grace.

 

[simpleas]

When you say “God’s Grace is supposed to be enough.” –

Are you referring to the State of Sanctifying Grace, which we are freely capable of destroying?
(CCC Glossary, Mortal Sin, page 889)

Or are your referring to Actual Graces. (CCC 2000; CCC 2024) Please note that the State of Sanctifying Grace is permanent until we commit Mortal Sin. Actual Graces are not permanent. They refer to God’s interventions, that is, He gives us grace for a specific reason or purpose. We can ignore Actual Grace.

Not referring to the state of Sanctifying Grace because I do not understand what that means.

I don’t really want to get into Graces tbh. Although believing that the kingdom of God is within each human being, graces probably do play a part.

 

[grannymh]

Not referring to the state of Sanctifying Grace because I do not understand what that means.

I don’t really want to get into Graces tbh. Although believing that the kingdom of God is within each human being, graces probably do play a part.

Do you have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition?

Can you use it?

 

[simpleas]

Do you have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition?

Can you use it?

 

[grannymh]

Tonight I googled “CCC grace definition.” Wikipedia was one of the information links. I had to scroll down to find a Catholic meaning. Sometimes when I google CCC…
I get paragraph numbers.

Something you said about “grace” made me wonder about a definition. I, and others, appear to take grace for granted and not really think about it. Regardless of how we approach the Kingdom of God, within us, God’s grace sounds like an important element.

 

[simpleas]

Tonight I googled “CCC grace definition.” Wikipedia was one of the information links. I had to scroll down to find a Catholic meaning. Sometimes when I google CCC…
I get paragraph numbers.

Something you said about “grace” made me wonder about a definition. I, and others, appear to take grace for granted and not really think about it. Regardless of how we approach the Kingdom of God, within us, God’s grace sounds like an important element.

I’ve been thinking on how one can take Grace for granted and not think about…

I haven’t come to any conclusion that doesn’t assume something about how a person may think about everything in life.

The questioned I posed in the OP, can’t be easily answered, not even by quoting the CCC or Scripture, we can have a base or help toward it with those writings, but I believe the answers come from within, not outward.

 

[grannymh]

I’ve been thinking on how one can take Grace for granted and not think about…

I haven’t come to any conclusion that doesn’t assume something about how a person may think about everything in life.

The questioned I posed in the OP, can’t be easily answered, not even by quoting the CCC or Scripture, we can have a base or help toward it with those writings, but I believe the answers come from within, not outward.

Regarding the meditation link in post 1.

If the author is presenting the Kingdom of God as something real, then there should have been some info about God as King. As King, God created human nature in the image of His Spiritual Self which means that humans have the capability of sharing in God’s life aka State of Sanctifying Grace.

Here is the meditation’s solution as to the location of the Kingdom of God. Hopefully, someone can translate it for me.
"Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

"Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’ way of describing a state we would nowadays call “nondual consciousness” or “unitive consciousness.” The hallmark of this awareness is that it sees no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans. These are indeed Jesus’ two core teachings, underlying everything he says and does."

 

[grannymh]

Here is the meditation’s solution as to the location of the Kingdom of God. Hopefully, someone can translate it for me.
"Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

"Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’ way of describing a state we would nowadays call “nondual consciousness” or “unitive consciousness.” The hallmark of this awareness is that it sees no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans. These are indeed Jesus’ two core teachings, underlying everything he says and does."

Regarding above quote from the Meditation link in post 1.

Does anyone know if “no separation --not between God and humans” is the teaching of panentheism (not pantheism) which has been discussed on CAF? Does anyone recall the CAF discussion regarding the book Quest for the Living God by Elizabeth Johnson?
usccb.org/news/2011/11-205e.cfm

U.S. conference of Catholic Bishops, Committee on Doctrine

I am wondering if there is a similarity to the spirituality of the Kingdom of God as mentioned above from post 1 link.

 

[simpleas]

Regarding the meditation link in post 1.

If the author is presenting the Kingdom of God as something real, then there should have been some info about God as King. As King, God created human nature in the image of His Spiritual Self which means that humans have the capability of sharing in God’s life aka State of Sanctifying Grace.

Here is the meditation’s solution as to the location of the Kingdom of God. Hopefully, someone can translate it for me.
"Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

"Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’ way of describing a state we would nowadays call “nondual consciousness” or “unitive consciousness.” The hallmark of this awareness is that it sees no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans. These are indeed Jesus’ two core teachings, underlying everything he says and does."

Here is a little bit on dualism, it may not answer your question…

cac.org/the-dualistic-mind-2017-01-29/

You may have read this before?

 

[anon65111186]

I think the answer to the first post is clear.

The Kingdom of God is a real place, not here on earth, but a thing of heaven. If you replace the word awareness for kingdom in the Bible or other texts, it doesn’t exactly fit.

“My kingdom is not of this world”

“The kingdom of God is not a matter of … righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit”

John in Revelation says it is visible “I saw a new heaven and a new earth” and from heaven " coming down out of heaven from God"

“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”

Also it is something prepared
“inherit the kingdom prepared for you”

It is more than a realization, Jesus would have just called it so, instead he decided to say “kingdom”, which is bigger than just an awareness, though a certain attitude or awareness of this reality is required.

But,
it is also a state of grace, continuous help from God, not from our own efforts to be aware of God or Holy things etc. We can however cooperate with God to become more aware or our sin, God’s love, God’s will etc. In any case, awareness of God and the things of God is itself a grace, a gift of God, which prepares us for a life with God eternal. This life with God starts here but is not of this world, is not complete in this world, it is only perfected in the afterlife, and “eye has not seen, nor ear heard” what it is like.

I am wary of anything coming from CAC and those associated with Fr. Rohr, because I’ve seen consistently that rather unorthodox teachings, unfaithful to the Church have come from there on a regular basis. I have alerted the Bishop there to this situation but have yet to hear back from him one way or the other.

 

[grannymh]

Here is a little bit on dualism, it may not answer your question…

cac.org/the-dualistic-mind-2017-01-29/

You may have read this before?

Thank you. I have not read it. It is an excellent start for my research.

It is the journalistic Why? which started my curiosity about Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion in regard to the Kingdom of God. Why would someone remove the reality of the Kingdom of Heaven and call it a metaphor?

The journalistic What? has me wondering what would eventually happen if the state of the Kingdom of God – and the term state can be appropriate in reality – turned out to be nondual consciousness or unitive consciousness.

On the other hand, the spirituality aspects of the Kingdom of God seem endless.

Please refer to the informative post 20. It has lots of points that deserve expanding.