Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?

[Galnextdoor]

Galnextdoor, perhaps it wont surprise you that I am also a great fan of Thomas Merton. I almost became a Trappist back in the early 80’s. Your analysis of him is much too facile. he was a complex man and his theology was very sophisticated. He never discounted the magisterium nor do those faithful Catholics who find value in his writings today.

Why are you so eager to target others?

“By their fruits ye shall know them.” Matthew 7: 15-20. Fr. Thomas Keating, a reader of Thomas Merton, uses similar teachings that have spread throughout the world, converting many to zen practices. He invited Roshi Sasaki to give retreats at St. Joseph’s Abbey, a Trappist monastery. One of his own protege’s left the monastery and became a transcendental zen master who began giving retreats at other places. The fruits of Fr. Thomas Keating do not appear to be leading people to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Instead, they appear to be leading people to believe they can become part of God by meditating.
When Jesus was asked how to pray, He said “Our Father who art in Heaven.” Clearly He was instructing us to pray to another Being. He was not instructing us to search inside of ourselves to find ourselves and become part of the god that is inside us.

If anyone wants to experience a union with God, I say receive the Eucharist.

There has been so much controversy surrounding Fr. Thomas Merton, that it is hard to endorse any of his teachings. He was a troubled individual, but that does not make his teachings sound or unsound in their Catholicity. Ultimately, what he is known for is his desire to mix Eastern traditions and practices with Catholicism. This is not a shining light to hold up for all to emulate.
Why focus on a troubled man who was known for trying to do something the Church condemns when there are so many beautiful Saints who have written about God? Why not focus on the teachings of St. Pope John Paul II? Or the writings of St. Faustina?

I point out people who I have known to have led people astray, because I love my neighbor and want them to be happy with God in heaven. Why go looking for something new or different when the Catholic Church already has it all there waiting for people to dig into it?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thomas Merton was the first to try to mix Eastern Mysticism with Catholicism,.

No, Thomas Merton never did this.

He along with other Catholic religious, began dialogue with the leaders of Eastern Religions as Pope Paul VI asked the various religious orders to do.

However, he never mixed Eastern Religion with Catholicism.

He found that Catholicism had Contemplative Prayer and Christian Meditation going back to the 4th Century Mystics of Christianity like Abba Isaac and St John Cassian, which had some similarities found in in Eastern Religion, but with a vast difference in the intention of focus.

Merton wrote on Christ being the center of our faith, which is far different than the intention of Eastern spirituality.

There were some Catholics who misunderstood Thomas Merton, but most never read his works and relied on misinformation from his critics.

Thomas Merton died a faithful Catholic centered on Jesus Christ.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Church has traditionally taught that contemplative prayer is a form a prayer that contemplates God and His attributes while adoring and praising Him. (i.e. meditating on the wounds of Christ while giving thanks and praise for His Mercy.)

The term contemplative prayer has been used by the author of “The Divine Dance…” to mean a form of eastern mystical emptying of the mind while placing oneself in an altered state of consciousness. This is Eastern meditation and is not approved by the Church. The altered state of mind can make a person more suggestable to things that are not from God. It is similar to being hypnotized. People who are hypnotized are in an altered state of conscious. Under hypnosis, people will think, do, and say many things that they would not if they were in full control of their free will. Eastern meditation is like a form of self-hypnosis. In this state, our mind is opened to temptations and thoughts that we would not normally be open to. If this no one is around, then this may seem harmless, but the problem is that people have come to believe this is what God is all about. They think that they are praying and being One with the God that lives inside themselves. Whatever thoughts they might encounter, they think are coming from becoming part of God. Trying to become God has never ended well in history or the historical parts of the bible. We are not part of God. The author of the “Divine Dance” puts out a periodical publication that he calls the Oneing. The title refers to his belief that we don’t have die and go to heaven to experience the ultimate union with God. We can have Him here on our terms by simply allowing ourselves to go into an alternate state of consciousness that he calls contemplative prayer.
You will find that Chopra advocates the same thing.

I know that this seems like a new exciting way to God that the author and his followers have found, and other people just haven’t been smart enough to figure it out. But it is not the way that the Catholic Church has taught us is the path to God. Jesus founded the Catholic Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. This whole “new way” of becoming “part of the Christ” reminds me of the snake in the Garden of Eden telling Eve she would be like God if she just ate of the Forbidden Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

It’s obvious you lack knowledge and experience about Contemplative Prayer and are confused of it’s origins and you’re misrepresenting what it’s about above.

It doesn’t come from Eastern Religion, nor does Fr Rohr, nor Thomas Merton present it as such.

Anyway, I’m not going to debate about it, but just suggest that you read “New Seeds of Contemplation,” by Thomas Merton, or the writings of Thomas Keating, a fellow Trappist who knew Thomas Merton well.

You could also read, “Into the Silent Land,” by Martin Laird, who is an Augustinian monk. All three base their writings on the Catholic Contemplatives like St John of the Cross, St John Cassian and others.

I’m not going to try and work through your hangups on the subject, Through prayer, the Holy Spirit can guide you to where you need to be spiritually. However, you need to be open to Him.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

]

Why go looking for something new or different when the Catholic Church already has it all there waiting for people to dig into it?

Contemplative prayer is not knew nor different. As Jim pointed out there are centuries and centuries of Catholic contemplative tradition finding “God within our hearts” , conforming us to God’s likeness.

See 2709-19

2713 Contemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts. Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, “to his likeness.”

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c3a1.htm

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Yes, it is time for Catholics to realize the importance of God in our lives.

Those people who are in the State of Sanctifying Grace already experience a more intimate and less cerebral relationship with God. (CCC Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898) Is there really something better than Genesis 1: 27 or CCC 355-356?

Do people really think that the Kingdom of God is something foreign to God’s presence?

The very clever beginning of the post 1 link sets the stage for confusion. Then comes the down to earth conclusion which is a metaphor. Metaphors are loved because they do not require hard work. When one studies Genesis 1: 27 which is related to the State of Sanctifying Grace, confusion can slip away into real knowledge about Catholicism and God’s love. Genesis 3: 15 and John 3: 16-17.

And yes, the Catholic Church is also the Kingdom of God because God is present in it.

It is not a good thing to limit the presence of God.

Somehow I missed your post and am only now seeing it.

Created in God’s image…and probabaly in so many ways that we are only beginning to comprehend. That is the wonderful thing about divine mysteries, there is no end to the growth in understanding and realization.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

From the initial article:
"Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

“Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’ way of describing a state we would nowadays call “nondual consciousness” or “unitive consciousness.” The hallmark of this awareness is that it sees no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans. These are indeed Jesus’ two core teachings, underlying everything he says and does.”

I have no problem with the Kingdom as a state of consciousness. We experience all things through one state of consciousness or another. The more challenging statement is “…no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans.”. That can be misleading. Because certainly we must always admit a separation between humans. So what is mean by no separation between them and between humans and God? Doesn’t it come down to the unity in Christ? Where our diversity is still not only real but at its truest. And yet we are unified in spirit.

 

[grannymh]

From the initial article:
"Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

“Marion suggests specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus’ way of describing a state we would nowadays call “nondual consciousness” or “unitive consciousness.” The hallmark of this awareness is that it sees no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans. These are indeed Jesus’ two core teachings, underlying everything he says and does.”

I have no problem with the Kingdom as a state of consciousness. We experience all things through one state of consciousness or another. The more challenging statement is “…no separation—not between God and humans, not between humans and other humans.”. That can be misleading. Because certainly we must always admit a separation between humans. So what is mean by no separation between them and between humans and God? Doesn’t it come down to the unity in Christ? Where our diversity is still not only real but at its truest. And yet we are unified in spirit.

What follows will sound like extreme thinking. Thus, it is intended to wake up some human brain power regarding an application of a metaphorical state of consciousness.

May I assume that a human state of consciousness is a human thing?

On the other hand, God is a transcendent, super-natural Pure Spirit without material restrictions like a decomposing anatomy. If one is speaking about the Kingdom of God, one should not try to reduce God’s nature or power to anything like a human something state. Obviously, there are teachers who would like to reduce God (maybe panentheism) because then all of the first three basic chapters of Genesis can be tampered to fit Progressive Christianity. *Wikipedia *has a list of Notable Progressive Christians.

If you are still following this train of thought, then Original Sin becomes Richard Rohr’s
“fly in the ointment” (Google it) and we are treated to original blessings. (shades of Mathew Fox)

The separation between God and humans is because God’s state of consciousness is not similar to that of humans. God is omnipotent and omniscient. One can try to apply the Hypostatic principle to mean unity in Christ; however, it is still difficult for humans to walk on water. This reminds me of the great joke about the Protestant walking on water.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I am with you Granny. But say more about how you understand unity in Christ and the human state of consciousness required to maintain it. The unity Jesus spoke of
John 17:20-23New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

[Galnextdoor]

It’s obvious you lack knowledge and experience about Contemplative Prayer and are confused of it’s origins and you’re misrepresenting what it’s about above.

It doesn’t come from Eastern Religion, nor does Fr Rohr, nor Thomas Merton present it as such.

Anyway, I’m not going to debate about it, but just suggest that you read “New Seeds of Contemplation,” by Thomas Merton, or the writings of Thomas Keating, a fellow Trappist who knew Thomas Merton well.

You could also read, “Into the Silent Land,” by Martin Laird, who is an Augustinian monk. All three base their writings on the Catholic Contemplatives like St John of the Cross, St John Cassian and others.

I’m not going to try and work through your hangups on the subject, Through prayer, the Holy Spirit can guide you to where you need to be spiritually. However, you need to be open to Him.

Jim

I am so sorry for your confusion. Obviously, you have been down this path for many years and nothing I can do or say will change your mind. My definition of contemplative prayer was taken from the Modern Catholic Dictionary by John A. Hardon S.J. It was the type of prayer that was practiced by Mother Angelica, Mother Teresa, St. Faustina and others. I have practiced this form of prayer myself. This is type of prayer that the mystics of the Church practice. It involves a reaching out to God who is a distinct Being from us. Yes, there is also a practice of sitting in silence and listening to God. Again this is not an altered state of consciousness that one puts themselves into in order commune with the God within.

I said Thomas Merton mixed Eastern practices and traditions with the Catholic faith. I did not say doctrine. I have explained the Catholic Church’s teachings on this and given you links to documents about the Church’s teaching. I do not intend to besmirch Thomas Merton’s character, but you should look up and read about his personal life, which made him so controversial.

As for the author of the “Cosmic Christ” read it and compare it to the writings Matthew Fox
who was defrocked. The same author of “The Divine Dance…” uses ambiguous terminology and traditionally Catholic terminology that he has given a new meaning to, so it no longer represents what the Catholic Church has always taught. This is why you are confused about what contemplative prayer is.

The same author, in his talks eschews traditional Christian institutions, as he calls them. (This is his ambiguous term for the Church and traditional religions.) He quotes phrases from the bible that are taken out of context and given new meaning. We have 2000 years of traditions and teachings that show us the way to a close relationship with God.

The author takes bits and pieces of what mystics have said and done, some of which have been labeled heretics and ex-communicated by the Church, and gives them his own meaning.

If you picked up his writings or listened to him speak and did not know he was a Franciscan, you would assume that he was promoting some new religion.

 

[grannymh]

I am with you Granny. But say more about how you understand unity in Christ and the human state of consciousness required to maintain it. The unity Jesus spoke of
John 17:20-23New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

My suggestion is to learn about the Catholic teaching on the Mystical Body of Christ.

One source is 1Corinthians, chapter 12. You can also check the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, Index, the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ, page 770.

The Catholic Church is the visible institution of unity. God desires “that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit.” (CCC 776)

Paragraph 1730 provides relative information because God created humankind as a rational species.

I also suggest reading the timeless Humani Generis, paragraphs 11 & 12.
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

Please do not let the age of this document scare you.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I said Thomas Merton mixed Eastern practices and traditions with the Catholic faith. I did not say doctrine. .

Again this is false.

Thomas Merton did not mix Eastern practices and traditions with the Catholic Faith.

The tradition of Contemplative Prayer which he wrote extensively on, comes from the Catholic tradition going back to the the 4th Century Christian Mystics.

In fact, New Seeds of Contemplation was written prior to his dialogue with spiritual masters of Eastern Religions.

All Thomas Merton ever did is discover the similarities in methods used for meditation, that were already in the Christian tradition.

The idea that he mixed Eastern practices and traditions into Catholicism, comes from misinformed sources, which pop up from time to time in this forum, but have been debunked,

Being a Discalced Carmelite, Secular for the past 25 years, I have studied the contemplative works of the great saints and have the experience of contemplative prayer to understand the works of the contemplatives like Thomas Merton, Thomas Keating, St John of the Cross, St Teresa of Avila and others.

Pope Francis himself is a contemplative, which is why he’s not so well received at CAF by some members.

Jim

 

[Galnextdoor]

Again this is false.

Thomas Merton did not mix Eastern practices and traditions with the Catholic Faith.

The tradition of Contemplative Prayer which he wrote extensively on, comes from the Catholic tradition going back to the the 4th Century Christian Mystics.

In fact, New Seeds of Contemplation was written prior to his dialogue with spiritual masters of Eastern Religions.

All Thomas Merton ever did is discover the similarities in methods used for meditation, that were already in the Christian tradition.

The idea that he mixed Eastern practices and traditions into Catholicism, comes from misinformed sources, which pop up from time to time in this forum, but have been debunked,

Being a Discalced Carmelite, Secular for the past 25 years, I have studied the contemplative works of the great saints and have the experience of contemplative prayer to understand the works of the contemplatives like Thomas Merton, Thomas Keating, St John of the Cross, St Teresa of Avila and others.

Pope Francis himself is a contemplative, which is why he’s not so well received at CAF by some members.

Jim

Okay. I guess you consider yourself an expert. What do have to say about Merton’s private life? Several people who were close to him said he did not live up to his vows of celibacy. People who knew him, also say that during the last 10 years of his life, he drifted
away from Catholic Doctrine. Even one of his early proteges caution about reading the things that Merton had published in the last decade of his life.
How about this article in Our Sunday Visitor?
osv.com/Article/TabId/493/ArtMID/13569/ArticleID/17544/The-complex-spirituality-of-Thomas-Merton.aspx

It states that Thomas Merton is now considered to be the father of the “New Age” movement in the Catholic Church. Granted, he had not drifted as far as the proponents that the original poster had expressed interest in, but he felt there was value in what the Church now condemns.

In most biographical articles, it is stated that Thomas Merton explored Eastern Mysticism long before he began his dialogue with the Eastern Mystics. According to the biographical information that I have found, Eastern Mysticism first piqued his interest in 1938.

There have been many so-called theologians who were initially embraced by the Church, but they eventually drifted away and were defrocked, restricted from teaching theology, and had their final writings condemned by the Church. It has happened in our generation and continues to happen.

Again, why bother searching through these people’s writings to try to find a legitimate Catholic Doctrine, when there are so many saints who have written on the subject.

You have not commented on the Magisterium document “Jesus the Water Bearer of Life”.

This whole thread began with a post about a reflection written by a follower of the author of the “Cosmic Christ” that stated that the kingdom of God is in altered state of consciousness. That link is now broken, which seems to happen when I post a link to any pamphlets or literature that I discover on the web that pertain to this author.

Since you consider yourself an expert on contemplative prayer (25 years experience), please explain how it differs from the definition given in Modern Catholic Dictionary by John A. Hardon S.J. “It is that prayer which looks at God by contemplating and adoring his attributes more than by asking him for favors or thanking him for favors received.”
It is a type of prayer that focuses on a particular aspect of God’s attributes as opposed to moving from one subject to another. This is what the Church has traditionally taught.

Buddhists and Hindus claim that the perfection of the ability to meditate for long periods of time will help produce higher states of spiritual awareness and insight into the true nature of reality and finally, salvation itself. (moksha or nirvana) (Achieving perfection will release them from the cycle of rebirth.) They look for salvation from within themselves.

Thomas Keating and the author of “The Cosmic Christ” and their followers encourage centering prayer that empties the mind and eventually takes you to an alternative state of consciousness. The author tells people to look for the salvation and the Divine Reality within. They say that you don’t need to die to be part of that ultimate communion with God; you only need to look inside yourself. By looking inside yourself you can experience the Oneing with the Divine Reality or the Flow. Does this sound more like the contemplative prayer of Catholicism or the meditation of Buddhists and Hindus?

I hope that something I have said will send you on a search for truth. Just do some research on the internet. You will find what I am talking about. May God bless you.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

All Thomas Merton ever did is discover the similarities in methods used for meditation, that were already in the Christian tradition.

I think there is something to be said also about simply appreciating the wisdom of some people (Chuan Tzu for example ) and traditions outside Christianity. Even the Buddha, Bhagavad Gita, Rumi and others have something to offer without converting to their entire world view.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the “symbol of the world to come” or “silent love.” Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

 

[grannymh]

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the “symbol of the world to come” or “silent love.” Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

Contemplative Prayer begins with CCC 2709 and continues through the “In Brief” section to 2724.

 

[Galnextdoor]

I think there is something to be said also about simply appreciating the wisdom of some people (Chuan Tzu for example ) and traditions outside Christianity. Even the Buddha, Bhagavad Gita, Rumi and others have something to offer without converting to their entire world view.

I don’t understand why you would go to other religions searching for truth, if you believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that He founded the Catholic Church. The Church has it all. The seeds of many of these other religions were around at the time of Christ. If they had the truth, why didn’t Christ come as a Hindu. Hindu and Buddha share many of the same concepts that come from the Upanishad texts from 800 b.c.

Jesus came as a Jew, because they had the truth. They didn’t know everything, so He taught them. He came to save the world and establish the Church which is part of the Kingdom of God.

The Church teaches that there is danger in trying to mix Eastern Mysticism with Catholicism.

I personally feel that searching for truth outside of the Church is a form of intellectual and spiritual pride. That’s just a personal feeling. The people I have met who encourage other Catholics to search outside the Church for truth, think that they know better than the Church Doctors, the Magisterium, and the Churches teachings on the Bible. They think that they, alone, have come across some new idea that nobody in the Church has ever considered before. Some how they, with their brilliant mind, have discovered something that the Church has overlooked. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS HOW YOU THINK. I am saying that the people I have known personally who encourage others to look outside the Church for truth often consider themselves to be “intellectuals” with a knowledge superior to Church teachings.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Have you ever read Nostra Aetate?

1. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[Galnextdoor]

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the “symbol of the world to come” or “silent love.” Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

Yes! The focus is on the Father or his Incarnate Word (Jesus) who suffered, died and rose from the dead. It is the contemplation of the wounds of Christ that enable us to share in the prayer of Jesus. It is not a spoken prayer, like an indulgenced prayer. It is a silent love for God. However, it is definitely not about trying to put ourselves in an altered state of consciousness so we can be Godlike. Prayer is communication with God, not a union with God.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I don’t understand why you would go to other religions searching for truth, if you believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that He founded the Catholic Church.

Because other religions have helped me to know Jesus better and know our faith better. Sometimes we have to experience something different to more fully understand and appreciate what we have.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Okay. I guess you consider yourself an expert. What do have to say about Merton’s private life? Several people who were close to him said he did not live up to his vows of celibacy. People who knew him, also say that during the last 10 years of his life, he drifted
away from Catholic Doctrine.

I’ve seen these accusations before and they’re unfounded.

I also talked with Trappists who knew and were friends with Thomas Merton and most of the accusations were due to misunderstanding.

Anyway, you don’t like Thomas Merton ? Fine, there are plenty of other spiritual writers.

However, I would suggest that you refrain from trashing him in this forum. For the information you’re presenting is hearsay and has been found to he lacking in accuracy.

God Bless
Jim