Do you have Questions for a Southern Baptist?

[lanman87]

So if they are not members of the body of Christ and die do they go to heaven?

What I was taught is that children will go to heaven when they die up/until they reach the age of accountability. There is no set age of accountability. Most would say it is the age when they understand sin and that they are a sinner and can understand what it means to have faith in Christ. It is when the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and prompts them to respond in faith. If, at that point, they refuse to respond in faith then they have reached the aged of accountability and therefore they are personally responsible for their sin.

Also, please note that Baptist (ironically considering the name baptist) don’t believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation. It is possible for a child to develop faith and be part of the universal church and not yet have obeyed in Baptism for whatever reason. Maybe they don’t understand the need, are shy about being in front of people, have health issues the preclude baptism, or parents who aren’t believers and want let them be baptized (sadly I’ve seen that happen).

 

[esieffe]

I haven been on this board for a few weeks and have appreciated the answers to my inquiries about Catholicism. I have learned a great deal about the Catholic church and theology both from the threads on this message board and other places (websites books…).

Being in the Bible belt I’ve had very few interactions with Catholic believers. I’ve never been in a Catholic church. I’m from Alabama and most cities in Alabama have one or two Catholic churches and many counties in Alabama have no Catholic church at all. The most exposed I’ve been to Catholicism is that I’ve visited the Ava Maria Grotto.

I’ve come to realize that most of the regular posters on the site are very well versed in theology and many of you probably know Southern Baptist beliefs and practices better than me, even though I’m a cradle baptist.

However, I thought it might be interesting to see what questions you might have about the largest protestant group in the country. I’m not a trained theologian or pastor. However, if any of you have any questions about Southern Baptist I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. If I don’t know the answer I will say so and seek to find the answer.

I have a few, and I mean no disrespect towards you. The, what I would call hostile towards Catholics, Baptist pastors who knock Catholics, where do they think the Christian Church came from, especially before Luther came around? Who do they think put the books of the Bible together at the direction of Jesus Christ? Why do so many Baptists downplay God’s mother.

I have not read any of your posts, but I am assuming that you now know enough about Catholicism not to be defensive over my questions, and again, I mean no disrespect to you.
Thank you.

 

[josephback]

What do protestants think about the church before the reformation? Where was the protestant religion? Or do they think it just began at the time of Martin Luther?

Do protestants still view themselves as protesting the Catholic church like Luther? Do they think of the history of the church and what was before Luther?

When I was younger the question did not come up. The perception of “church” is different so that there isn’t necessarily a single traceable entity with teaching authority that one must assent to in order to belong to “the church.” It’s a different mindset. Generally for those who care enough Luther is considered a hero who restored the true gospel after its eclipse by papal Rome. In all honesty this is the position one must come to in order to validate their continued participation in the Reformation movement. Unless the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages either erred doctrinally in some way or had otherwise fallen, there was no justification for leaving it. Those who left in the first generation thought this was so.

 

[josephback]

I haven been on this board for a few weeks and have appreciated the answers to my inquiries about Catholicism. I have learned a great deal about the Catholic church and theology both from the threads on this message board and other places (websites books…).

Being in the Bible belt I’ve had very few interactions with Catholic believers. I’ve never been in a Catholic church. I’m from Alabama and most cities in Alabama have one or two Catholic churches and many counties in Alabama have no Catholic church at all. The most exposed I’ve been to Catholicism is that I’ve visited the Ava Maria Grotto.

I’ve come to realize that most of the regular posters on the site are very well versed in theology and many of you probably know Southern Baptist beliefs and practices better than me, even though I’m a cradle baptist.

However, I thought it might be interesting to see what questions you might have about the largest protestant group in the country. I’m not a trained theologian or pastor. However, if any of you have any questions about Southern Baptist I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. If I don’t know the answer I will say so and seek to find the answer.

My questions are below:

Why should I attend your church as opposed to another on Sunday?
What are the particulars of the Gospel preached? and
Is there a theological reason for the empty cross?

 

[Memaw]

Hello and in all seriousness friend:

Do you ever find attending your Southern Baptist church to be petty and childish? My in-laws are Southern Baptist and they begged my wife and I to attend a service with them, so we did. I went in the sanctuary before them and chose a seat and sat down. Almost immediately I was tapped on the shoulder and told ,“this is our seat”. I look up to see a slightly older couple. Looking around, most of the pews are empty and I couldn’t fathom why someone wanted my seat in particular. I stood and looked around before the gentleman offered a ,“this is where we always sit”. He then proceeded to charge into the pew, pushing me back and sitting down. Ok…

At the same service, they talked of a fundraiser for the local zoo. Without warning, a parishioner dressed in a gorilla costume, lumbered and grunted down the center aisle, ran to the altar and fumbled the pastor while everyone laughed and hollered. Ok…

Finally, they had big super sized screens built into the walls to show lyrics to the hymns which you sing to. Ok, that was cool, but then the cool factor left, when they began showing scenes from the Empire Strikes Back with Darth Vader giving some nonsense to Luke about "fatherhood. Ok…

In all seriousness, do you really think these sorts of going-ons is looked kindly upon by God?

Many, many years ago, my cousin who had left the Catholic Church and became a Southern Baptist had “finally” talked me into going to Church with her one Sunday for a special reason, (she actually told me a falsehood to get me there), so I went. After the preaching, the minister had everyone stand. Then those who have been “saved” sit down. My cousin sat so I started to set too, but she insist I still stand. He preached some more they sang a hymn, and some started going forward, I still stood, not even understanding why, and more preaching, music and some more went forward. I tried to set several time but she wouldn’t let me. Finally I and one other man was left standing and the preacher said very loudly, “I will give you one more chance to be saved and come forward”. Well I sat down anyway no matter what my cousin said and I was so embarrassed because I had no idea what was going on. She said to me, You aren’t saved, you haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and I almost shouted back, "Jesus Christ has been my personal Savior ALL my life and I don’t have to prove it to you or anyone else. HE knows!!! I was soooooo upset with her!!! The good news is, several years later she came BACK to the Catholic Faith and died with a priest with her, our Uncle!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[lanman87]

Are all non-SB churches are incorrect theologically according to the SB? If so, why did the Holy Spirit not preserve them? If not, why the difference between SB and them?

Sorry, I forgot to answer question # 4.

I’ve posted the Baptist Faith and Message Several Times. This is the only theological statement that is official from the SBC.

Anything not specifically mentioned in the Baptist Faith and Message is considered secondary.

However, there are many secondary issues where personal convictions are allowed. For instance, one person may be convicted about watching rated R movies while another feels no conviction. One may think it is wrong to drink beer while another brews beer in their garage. In those matters individuals need to follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

It is also important to note the Southern Baptist will fellowship with other denominations who hold the fundamentals of Christian faith. Fundamentalism is a dirty word in our modern Christian culture but it actually means that you hold to fundamental beliefs.

Here are the five fundamentals as taught by most protestant churches.

1. The inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture
2. The deity of Jesus Christ
3. The virgin birth of Christ
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Christ on the cross
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Christ to the earth.

So while a Southern Baptist may not agree with a Methodist on all matters of faith and practice we have no problems teaming up with Methodist to share the Gospel or help the poor. As a matter of fact, the town I live in has a group of churches from various denominations (Baptist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, Methodist) that work together to provide food and clothing for those in need.

 

[steve93]

I have a few, and I mean no disrespect towards you. The, what I would call hostile towards Catholics, Baptist pastors who knock Catholics, where do they think the Christian Church came from, especially before Luther came around? Who do they think put the books of the Bible together at the direction of Jesus Christ? Why do so many Baptists downplay God’s mother.

I have not read any of your posts, but I am assuming that you now know enough about Catholicism not to be defensive over my questions, and again, I mean no disrespect to you.
Thank you.

Well, if the catholics hadn’t though it their right to interfere in the religion of others and revive the tyranny of Rome, then perhaps protestants would take a better view of them. Have you hugged your torturer yet today? Have you thanked your local traffic conquistador for his service?
Our freedoms today on are founded on the immortal sacrifice of the people of Northern Europe. Where Swiss, Scots, English, Dutch, Germans, Bohemians, and Hugonauts stood in wooden shoes with pole arms in their roughened hand and made their stand against the forces of papacy and hapsburgism. Millions strong, Protestants will never surrender nor yield. It is through them that the spirits of the great martyrs of our race yet live, men like Luther, Geyer, Huss, Tyndale and a million more. Though our own race turned aginst us in the form of catholic national socialism and murdered Dr. Bonehoffer, we will endure as long as their beats the heart of Vercingetorix within us.
We will give our lives for our homelands.

Landsknecht voran!!!

 

[USMC_Convert]

Two questions for you, do SB’s acknowledge the Blessed Mother as the mother of God?

Also do SB’s profess the Nicene Creed?

The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Solomonson]

Do you in any way subscribe to the Trail of Blood belief? Do you believe there is any institutional connection (independent of the Catholic/Orthodox churches) between the early church and the 16th Century advent of Protestantism? Thank you.

Tail of Blood chart: 3.bp.blogspot.com/-xMsJHXRYBeA/U9uITO9DAZI/AAAAAAAAAww/t6QxlZ-xBNo/s1600/Trail+of+Blood+CHART+low.jpg

 

[pablope]

I h

Being in the Bible belt I’ve had very few interactions with Catholic believers. I’ve never been in a Catholic church. I’m from Alabama and most cities in Alabama have one or two Catholic churches and many counties in Alabama have no Catholic church at all. The most exposed I’ve been to Catholicism is that I’ve visited the Ava Maria Grotto.

answer.

Are you close to Madison? My sister lives there.

Have been to the EWTN studios/site there in Alabama? And do you know who Mother Angelica is?

And have you been to a Catholic Mass?

 

[USMC_Convert]

Sorry, I forgot to answer question # 4.

I’ve posted the Baptist Faith and Message Several Times. This is the only theological statement that is official from the SBC.

Anything not specifically mentioned in the Baptist Faith and Message is considered secondary.

However, there are many secondary issues where personal convictions are allowed. For instance, one person may be convicted about watching rated R movies while another feels no conviction. One may think it is wrong to drink beer while another brews beer in their garage. In those matters individuals need to follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

It is also important to note the Southern Baptist will fellowship with other denominations who hold the fundamentals of Christian faith. Fundamentalism is a dirty word in our modern Christian culture but it actually means that you hold to fundamental beliefs.

Here are the five fundamentals as taught by most protestant churches.

1. The inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture
2. The deity of Jesus Christ
3. The virgin birth of Christ
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Christ on the cross
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Christ to the earth.

So while a Southern Baptist may not agree with a Methodist on all matters of faith and practice we have no problems teaming up with Methodist to share the Gospel or help the poor. As a matter of fact, the town I live in has a group of churches from various denominations (Baptist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, Methodist) that work together to provide food and clothing for those in need.

To attest to this when I lived in NC we (Catholics) teamed up with a several Protestant churches to feed the hungry and other corporal works of mercy, I think, I can’t say with certainty but think one of the was SB.

 

[Solomonson]

As a former evangelical I assume you already know the answer to the question.

However, for the benefit of others… It is due to the fact that no infants were baptized in the New Testament. Southern Baptist maintain that everyone in the New Testament who was baptized did so after believing in Christ.

Coule you please provide book/chapter/verse to support this belief? Thanks.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Well, if the catholics hadn’t though it their right to interfere in the religion of others and revive the tyranny of Rome, then perhaps protestants would take a better view of them. Have you hugged your torturer yet today? Have you thanked your local traffic conquistador for his service?
Our freedoms today on are founded on the immortal sacrifice of the people of Northern Europe. Where Swiss, Scots, English, Dutch, Germans, Bohemians, and Hugonauts stood in wooden shoes with pole arms in their roughened hand and made their stand against the forces of papacy and hapsburgism. Millions strong, Protestants will never surrender nor yield. It is through them that the spirits of the great martyrs of our race yet live, men like Luther, Geyer, Huss, Tyndale and a million more. Though our own race turned aginst us in the form of catholic national socialism and murdered Dr. Bonehoffer, we will endure as long as their beats the heart of Vercingetorix within us.
We will give our lives for our homelands.

Landsknecht voran!!!

What is this?

 

[USMC_Convert]

What is this?

Confusion…

 

[GKC]

To attest to this when I lived in NC we (Catholics) teamed up with a several Protestant churches to feed the hungry and other corporal works of mercy, I think, I can’t say with certainty but think one of the was SB.

The largest, oldest, and (physically) closest Southern Baptist and RC churches locally do the same.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Here are the five fundamentals as taught by most protestant churches.

1. The inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture
2. The deity of Jesus Christ
3. The virgin birth of Christ
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Christ on the cross
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Christ to the earth.

Thats pretty vague, and would probably be acceptable Catholics so why do many SBs have issues with Catholicism being Christian?

In addition, since the Catholic Church officially proclaims the fundamental belief that Christ is Lord, which according to SBs guarantees salvation, isn’t the Church already fulfilling SB minimum requirements corporately and individually - no matter what the CC says about Mary, Saints, the Papacy or anything else?

Also, how could Luther be a hero when he continued to believe, teach and profess 95% of Catholic beliefs the same as Rome?

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Many, many years ago, my cousin who had left the Catholic Church and became a Southern Baptist had “finally” talked me into going to Church with her one Sunday for a special reason, (she actually told me a falsehood to get me there), so I went. After the preaching, the minister had everyone stand. Then those who have been “saved” sit down. My cousin sat so I started to set too, but she insist I still stand. He preached some more they sang a hymn, and some started going forward, I still stood, not even understanding why, and more preaching, music and some more went forward. I tried to set several time but she wouldn’t let me. Finally I and one other man was left standing and the preacher said very loudly, “I will give you one more chance to be saved and come forward”. Well I sat down anyway no matter what my cousin said and I was so embarrassed because I had no idea what was going on. She said to me, You aren’t saved, you haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and I almost shouted back, "Jesus Christ has been my personal Savior ALL my life and I don’t have to prove it to you or anyone else. HE knows!!! I was soooooo upset with her!!! The good news is, several years later she came BACK to the Catholic Faith and died with a priest with her, our Uncle!!! God Bless, Memaw

Yeah that’s very insulting and awkward. We receive the Lord in the Eucharist and confess he is Lord through the creed. There’s plenty of intimacy there so no need for any new ideas or different versions of what we already do.

 

[boomerang]

Do Southern Baptist ministers speak often about the Catholic Church in their Sunday services? I’m thinking back to when my mother told me she was invited two or three times by Baptist friends to attend their services, and each time the minister railed about the evils of the Catholic Church. Is this a normal topic for sermons in your church? In the Mass, I have never heard our priests say one word about other Christians. In fact, one time my mother said something about “oh, those Protestants!” and she was immediately rebuked by our priest who told her that the Protestants were our brothers and sister in Christ. How is it in your church?

 

[jlhargus]

To put it simply. You are assuming they had small children/infants who couldn’t understand the Gospel. Baptist and those who hold to believers baptism assume any children in the household were old enough to believe in Christ.

It is all speculation. I count 4 instances in scripture where someone’s household was baptized. I’ve seen children as young as 4 be baptized as believers. I’m skeptical that a 4 year old can have saving faith, or maybe they can, it is not for me to say. However, it is not beyond the realm of reason to think that 4 families all had children from 4 years old and up.

Wouldn’t it be more reasonable for Baptist to assume the probability is greater there was at least one infant in one of those households, than all were of age of accountability? Especially since children didn’t grow up and leave home? They lived in extended households and didn’t use contraception.

Wouldn’t the same reasonable probability apply to those three thousand baptized at Pentecost? Is it reasonable to assume not one was an infant? Wasn’t the promise of the Holy Spirit, made to adults and their children without making distinction of age or accountability?

[Act2:38 Then **Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.]

 

[jlhargus]

The fact is we just don’t know.

Why do Baptist think we can’t know? Actully Lanman we can and do know through Apostolic Tradition as taught and lived by the Church in baptizing infants and in writings of the early Church Fathers. Infant baptism was never a controversy till the mid 1500 hundreds or after. All the Protestant reformers baptized infants and the majority of Protestants to this day baptize infants.

They could have had infants or they could have kids that were grown and gone.

Aren’t Baptist basing their assumption on today’s household? Households in those days included several generations. There was no such thing as an empty nest.