Do you have Questions for a Southern Baptist?

[lanman87]

My questions are below:

Why should I attend your church as opposed to another on Sunday?
What are the particulars of the Gospel preached? and
Is there a theological reason for the empty cross?

You should come to my church because you will be loved as a brother in Christ. You will be encouraged and taught to grow in your faith. You will be encouraged to use your spiritual and natural gifts to expand the Kingdom of God. You will develop relationships with Christian Brothers and Sisters who will support you as you deal with the trials of life and rejoice with you when you experience the joys of life. You will be given the opportunity to serve the Lord both in the body and in the community.

The particulars are pretty simple. Believe(trust) in Jesus, confess that you are a sinner, repent of your sins, and be baptized into the church. Then grow in your faith and share your faith with others.

The only theological reason I’ve ever heard for the empty cross is that Jesus is no longer on the cross. He is risen and defeated death and the grave. Therefore, the cross is empty.

 

[lanman87]

Thats pretty vague, and would probably be acceptable Catholics so why do many SBs have issues with Catholicism being Christian?

In addition, since the Catholic Church officially proclaims the fundamental belief that Christ is Lord, which according to SBs guarantees salvation, isn’t the Church already fulfilling SB minimum requirements corporately and individually - no matter what the CC says about Mary, Saints, the Papacy or anything else?

Also, how could Luther be a hero when he continued to believe, teach and profess 95% of Catholic beliefs the same as Rome?

There is much mystery and misunderstanding about Catholicism in the Southern Baptist Church and in most Protestant circles. That is one of the reasons I’m here. My son is seriously dating a Catholic girl (who is great BTW) and I expect him to become a Catholic if/when they get engaged. I figured I should at least know enough to be able to have a conversation with him about it.

If I’m asked if Catholics are true Christians my answer is those who have placed their faith in Christ are. If I’m asked if Baptist/Methodist/Pentecostals are true Christians my answer is those who have placed their faith in Christ are.

I can’t say for certain but I suspect the Catholic church is like the Southern Baptist churches in that you have devoted followers of Christ and you have those who are in church so others will think they are righteous and those who just come to make a mother/wife/husband happy.

Luther isn’t really talked about much in SBC circles. Neither is Calvin for that matter. Now Billy Graham is another matter. It must be some kind of requirement taught at Baptist Seminaries that you have to mention Billy Graham at least once a month in your sermons or else your in danger of losing your preaching privileges.

 

[lanman87]

Well, if the catholics hadn’t though it their right to interfere in the religion of others and revive the tyranny of Rome, then perhaps protestants would take a better view of them. Have you hugged your torturer yet today? Have you thanked your local traffic conquistador for his service?
Our freedoms today on are founded on the immortal sacrifice of the people of Northern Europe. Where Swiss, Scots, English, Dutch, Germans, Bohemians, and Hugonauts stood in wooden shoes with pole arms in their roughened hand and made their stand against the forces of papacy and hapsburgism. Millions strong, Protestants will never surrender nor yield. It is through them that the spirits of the great martyrs of our race yet live, men like Luther, Geyer, Huss, Tyndale and a million more. Though our own race turned aginst us in the form of catholic national socialism and murdered Dr. Bonehoffer, we will endure as long as their beats the heart of Vercingetorix within us.
We will give our lives for our homelands.

Landsknecht voran!!!

Well, this is a strange post:shrug:

 

[lanman87]

My question would be:
A. Are you a Calvinist? and if not
B. How do you account for the history of the doctrine of eternal security? Do you believe that God guided Calvinists to develop the doctrine in the context of predestination, even though predestination is itself a mistaken doctrine?

This only works if you’re the kind of SB who believes in eternal security but is otherwise an “Arminian.” If you don’t fall into that category, my question is wide of the mark. But as someone who cut my teeth arguing with Baptists about eternal security, this is something that I’ve puzzled over ever since I learned the history of the doctrine. Most Baptists don’t seem to know or care about the history of their doctrines, but clearly some do.

I’m not a Calvinist and personally I’m on the fence about OSAS (see other post).

Some Southern Baptist are Calvinist, most are not. The ironic thing to me, as a baptist, is that I’ve always associated Calvinist as being anti-evangelistic. If folks are pre-destined to become a Christian then why bother sharing the gospel? However, looking back some of the greatest evangelist where Calvinist. I’ve got a book by Calvinist Theologian J.I. Packer called* Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God* in my stack of books to read. Hopefully, it will give me some insight into this paradox.

 

[MartinJordan]

The only theological reason I’ve ever heard for the empty cross is that Jesus is no longer on the cross. He is risen and defeated death and the grave. Therefore, the cross is empty.

For some reason I’m reminded of this:

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I have know idea

Please then find out for me.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[lanman87]

Hi lanman87,

I think you articulate the Southern Baptist perspective very well in your posts.

My wife used to teach at a Southern Baptist elementary/junior high and it had high academic standards.Their kids knew their Bible and memorized verses better than any other denomination I knew of. They took their academics seriously and tested well above their non-denominational school peers in my city in all subjects,so I was impressed by that.

Question:
What is the Southern Baptist belief on whether people of other Christian denominations like Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans can be “saved” outside of a “altar call” scenario? The altar call seemed to be the prescribed way to express faith in Christ for the first time, but is it the only way to come to know Christ as Savior? I don;t think it is.

Also, some people at that SB church where my wife taught who were from other denominations who had already been baptized were made to be baptized again when they converted to became Baptists. Why was that? This even was the case for people who said they already accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior and repented of their sins in their other faith tradition.

Outside of the altar call, which is presumably is a time for non-Christians to come to Christ, where in the SB church service do people confess their sins either individually or as a body? I assume they believe it is a personal thing you do in private, but I don’t know for sure.

While most Southern Baptist do have an alter call the SBC fully believes that people can express initial faith in Christ in any number of ways. Many times people are lead to faith outside the alter call but respond at the alter call to make their faith public.

Southern Baptist confess their sins directly to God in prayer and, in some cases, to each other in support groups, to close friends, or a designated “accountability partner”. This is especially true if someone is struggling with addiction or sexual sins.

Southern Baptist only believe that immersion is the proper form of baptism. And that for a baptism to be valid it must be believers baptism. Therefore, if someone wants to join a SBC and are already a believer but they have only been baptized by sprinkling or pouring they will have to be re-baptized. If they have only been baptized as an infant they will have to be re-baptized as a believer. Obviously, this is a bone of contention between Southern Baptist and believers from other traditions.

 

[lanman87]

How well (or not) is your denomination doing in retaining members/children of members once they reach the age of 18?

Honestly, not very well. From what I read this is not just a baptist problem but a problem across Christianity. From what I’ve read, many of today’s young who leave the church come back but when they do it is sometimes to a different tradition.

I think part of the issue for Protestants is that so much of what we’ve done the past 20 years has been done to try and attract people to the church but it has been done at the expense of teaching doctrine. I heard it put this way, doctrine in the evangelical church in the USA is 6 inches deep and 800 miles wide.

Doctrine may not be as fun as a pizza and prayer party but doctrine helps us answer the tough questions when tragedy or sickness or death come. And eventually they come to all of us.

How are Catholics doing in retaining college aged young adults?

 

[ffg]

Favorite aspect?

Which debatable issue among the independent churches would you like to see uniformity?

 

[Lenten_ashes]

While most Southern Baptist do have an alter call the SBC fully believes that people can express initial faith in Christ in any number of ways. Many times people are lead to faith outside the alter call but respond at the alter call to make their faith public.

Southern Baptist confess their sins directly to God in prayer and, in some cases, to each other in support groups, to close friends, or a designated “accountability partner”. This is especially true if someone is struggling with addiction or sexual sins.

Southern Baptist only believe that immersion is the proper form of baptism. And that for a baptism to be valid it must be believers baptism. Therefore, if someone wants to join a SBC and are already a believer but they have only been baptized by sprinkling or pouring they will have to be re-baptized. If they have only been baptized as an infant they will have to be re-baptized as a believer. Obviously, this is a bone of contention between Southern Baptist and believers from other traditions.

OK, so if a Christian of another branch with pouring as their method of Baptism comes over to SBC, he must be re-baptized. What if he/she does not want to do it? What if they say no, that baptism was valid and personal to me and I wont be re-baptized.

I’m curious because if I understand Baptist theology correctly, baptism does not save anyway, it’s a symbolic ordinance.

Or is it something nobody ever presses anyway so no need to worry about it? I know from experience that Anglicans/Lutherans do press the issue and you don’t receive Communion before baptism. But obviously baptism is more meaningful in their theology.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Brother, you forgot to answer whether or not SB’s believe The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God. FYI we believe that she is the daughter of the Eternal Father, Mother of Jesus and spouse of the Holy Spirit, not to insult your intelligence just wanted to make sure you knew the Catholic position.

On that note since you guys so adamantly believe in the Bible (very good thing I commend you!!!) why don’t you guys call her the Blessed Mother or Blessed Mary when the Bible so explicitly states that “all generations shall call me blessed”?

 

[lanman87]

OK, so if a Christian of another branch with pouring as their method of Baptism comes over to SBC, he must be re-baptized. What if he/she does not want to do it? What if they say no, that baptism was valid and personal to me and I wont be re-baptized.

I’m curious because if I understand Baptist theology correctly, baptism does not save anyway, it’s a symbolic ordinance.

Or is it something nobody ever presses anyway so no need to worry about it? I know from experience that Anglicans/Lutherans do press the issue and you don’t receive Communion before baptism. But obviously baptism is more meaningful in their theology.

Most of the time this is an issue when folks get married. Say a wife was sprinkled as a Methodist but her husband is a Baptist and she wants to attend church with him. If the wife refuses to get re-baptized then she is not allowed membership in the church. I’ve seen people attend a baptist church for years, take part in bible study, help with missions work and so forth and never officially join the church.

One distinction between Baptist and many other churches is what exactly it means to be a “member of the church”. Baptist believe that since faith is a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ, you can be a follower of Christ and not be a member of the church. Membership in a Baptist church doesn’t make you are a believer. Although, you have to be a baptized(immersed) believer to be a member. It means you covenant with the church to support the mission of the church. As such, believers who are not members but who participate in the church can do everything but vote on church matters and hold an office of leadership in the church.

Some churches require you to be a baptized(immersed) believer (from any denomination) to take communion, some require you to be a member of that local church to take communion, and some just require that you be a professing believer (from any tradition, immersed or not) to take communion.

 

[lanman87]

Brother, you forgot to answer whether or not SB’s believe The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God. FYI we believe that she is the daughter of the Eternal Father, Mother of Jesus and spouse of the Holy Spirit, not to insult your intelligence just wanted to make sure you knew the Catholic position.

On that note since you guys so adamantly believe in the Bible (very good thing I commend you!!!) why don’t you guys call her the Blessed Mother or Blessed Mary when the Bible so explicitly states that “all generations shall call me blessed”?

See post #24

To expound further. I’ll share a paragraph of a book I’m reading

*Three commonalities about her are shared (between Protestants and Catholics). The first is the acknowledgement of and gratitude for the unique role Mary played in the incarnation of the Son of God. Specifically, the recognition of her as theotokos (literally, “bearer of God”), in terms of the historical sense that the one whom Mary bore was fully God, unites Catholics and evangelicals. A second agreement is Mary’s stellar example of faith and obedience, as demonstrated in her response to the annunciation and her personal suffering tied to the life of her Son. The third commonality is called her “blessed” because of the might work that God did on her behalf and, through her, on behalf of all human beings in fulfillment of his promise of salvation.

On all other Marian doctrines, Catholic theology and evangelical theology part company.
*

The book is Roman Catholic Theology and Practice: An Evangelical Assessment by Gregg R. Allison. The paragraph is on page 135

 

[USMC_Convert]

See post #24

To expound further. I’ll share a paragraph of a book I’m reading

*Three commonalities about her are shared (between Protestants and Catholics). The first is the acknowledgement of and gratitude for the unique role Mary played in the incarnation of the Son of God. Specifically, the recognition of her as theotokos (literally, “bearer of God”), in terms of the historical sense that the one whom Mary bore was fully God, unites Catholics and evangelicals. A second agreement is Mary’s stellar example of faith and obedience, as demonstrated in her response to the annunciation and her personal suffering tied to the life of her Son. The third commonality is called her “blessed” because of the might work that God did on her behalf and, through her, on behalf of all human beings in fulfillment of his promise of salvation.

On all other Marian doctrines, Catholic theology and evangelical theology part company.
*

The book is Roman Catholic Theology and Practice: An Evangelical Assessment by Gregg R. Allison. The paragraph is on page 135

Thank you, so can you expand on post 24 and tell me which Marian practices are in error?

 

[lanman87]

Thank you, so can you expand on post 24 and tell me which Marian practices are in error?

Southern Baptist reject all the other Marian practices and dogma. I’m sure you’ve heard all the arguments and if you haven’t they are easy enough to find. I’m not really interested in having a back and forth about why or why not the Southern Baptist and really all protestants are wrong.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Most of the time this is an issue when folks get married. Say a wife was sprinkled as a Methodist but her husband is a Baptist and she wants to attend church with him. If the wife refuses to get re-baptized then she is not allowed membership in the church. I’ve seen people attend a baptist church for years, take part in bible study, help with missions work and so forth and never officially join the church.

One distinction between Baptist and many other churches is what exactly it means to be a “member of the church”. Baptist believe that since faith is a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ, you can be a follower of Christ and not be a member of the church. Membership in a Baptist church doesn’t make you are a believer. Although, you have to be a baptized(immersed) believer to be a member. It means you covenant with the church to support the mission of the church. As such, believers who are not members but who participate in the church can do everything but vote on church matters and hold an office of leadership in the church.

Some churches require you to be a baptized(immersed) believer (from any denomination) to take communion, some require you to be a member of that local church to take communion, and some just require that you be a professing believer (from any tradition, immersed or not) to take communion.

Good explanation.

Thanks.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Southern Baptist reject all the other Marian practices and dogma. I’m sure you’ve heard all the arguments and if you haven’t they are easy enough to find. I’m not really interested in having a back and forth about why or why not the Southern Baptist and really all protestants are wrong.

I’m not trying to tell you that you are wrong, I don’t think I’ve said in any of my posts that you are wrong, I’m simply asking questions some of them out of curiosity and some of them because I’m trying to get you to think about the position which you are taking. But I will stop since you are not interested. God Bless…

 

[ltwin]

I haven been on this board for a few weeks and have appreciated the answers to my inquiries about Catholicism. I have learned a great deal about the Catholic church and theology both from the threads on this message board and other places (websites books…).

Being in the Bible belt I’ve had very few interactions with Catholic believers. I’ve never been in a Catholic church. I’m from Alabama and most cities in Alabama have one or two Catholic churches and many counties in Alabama have no Catholic church at all. The most exposed I’ve been to Catholicism is that I’ve visited the Ava Maria Grotto.

I’ve come to realize that most of the regular posters on the site are very well versed in theology and many of you probably know Southern Baptist beliefs and practices better than me, even though I’m a cradle baptist.

However, I thought it might be interesting to see what questions you might have about the largest protestant group in the country. I’m not a trained theologian or pastor. However, if any of you have any questions about Southern Baptist I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. If I don’t know the answer I will say so and seek to find the answer.

Are you “Bapticostal”?

 

[lanman87]

I’m not trying to tell you that you are wrong, I don’t think I’ve said in any of my posts that you are wrong, I’m simply asking questions some of them out of curiosity and some of them because I’m trying to get you to think about the position which you are taking. But I will stop since you are not interested. God Bless…

Thank you for a kind reply. I just want to be clear that I’m not trying to defend Baptist or Protestant belief. I’m more interested in sharing information and getting information. One thing I’ve noticed is that there is a lot of misinformation going both ways between Protestants and Catholics. And there are those on the fringe on both sides who are openly hostile.

Even on this board I allowed myself to be drawn into some debate and I regret it.

I’ve read* Catholic and Christian* by Alan Schrek and Rome Sweet Home by the Hahns as well as numerous Catholic apologist articles and websites. So I’m becoming familiar with Catholicism.

Up until a few months ago all I knew about Catholics was you have a pope, you go to confession, your priest don’t get married, and you build the most beautiful church buildings in the world.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Thank you for a kind reply. I just want to be clear that I’m not trying to defend Baptist or Protestant belief. I’m more interested in sharing information and getting information. One thing I’ve noticed is that there is a lot of misinformation going both ways between Protestants and Catholics. And there are those on the fringe on both sides who are openly hostile.

Even on this board I allowed myself to be drawn into some debate and I regret it.

I’ve read* Catholic and Christian* by Alan Schrek and Rome Sweet Home by the Hahns as well as numerous Catholic apologist articles and websites. So I’m becoming familiar with Catholicism.

Up until a few months ago all I knew about Catholics was you have a pope, you go to confession, your priest don’t get married, and you build the most beautiful church buildings in the world.

…and forgive me if my love of debates forced its way into the conversation. My whole family is Protestant (Nazarene) so we regularly debate many things so I’m very used to and comfortable with debating/arguing about most of these things.