do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[tweetymom]

Hi TweetyMom,

I’ve been thinking about this since I first saw it and I disagree, kinda. I agree with the fact that no one has a “corner on the market” of “uncharitable” ~ there are plenty of uncharitable Christians, regardless of their “brand”.

But one thing I have seen from some Protestants, that I haven’t seen from Catholics, is the charge of being “non-Christian” or even “pagan” leveled against Catholics. This is extremely offensive and uncharitable and I don’t remember ever seeing this sort of thing leveled against a Protestant by a Catholic (not saying it doesn’t ever happen, how could I know that? just saying I’ve never seen it.) The accusation by some Protestants towards Catholics that Catholics are non-Christian/Pagan originates, as I understand it, with some particular faith’s need to justify its existence. A paltry excuse for defaming people if I have ever heard one.

Since there are extremely vitriolic examples of such persons that post to this forum, and do so very offensively, and since I have never seen any Catholic behave in a similar way, I have to agree with Distracted on this one. At least some Protestants will have a lot to make up for at some point of existence.

Which is why I go back to the idea I posted previously (not sure if it was this thread or another). Imagine a world where everyone treated everyone else as Jesus would, or as if Jesus were standing beside them. (Sorry, but the very-Protestant WWJD ~ What Would Jesus Do ~ comes to mind here, but it’s pertinent.) In that sort of world we would, I suppose, have heaven on earth. But we don’t have that. To the extent that we, individually, do not “do as Jesus” would, we create problems, and when these problems are magnified by the numbers of people in the world, we end up with huge problems, disagreements, etc…

Nice post and we agree to disagree once again. I have seen this sort of action by Catholics as well as Protestants. But were I did live in a small town there were 6 Churches and 4 times a year everyone got together from all Churces including Catholic Church and Community services and it was a service with respect shown by all. And now that I have moved to the big city, our Churches are doing the same. 2 weeks ago we had the some service our Priest and all the Ministers joined in for one great big community worship service. All sang, prayed, worshiped together. So If you have seen disagreeable actions and thats all you have seen then sorry. I have seen a lot odd actions not very Christian by both Catholic and Protestants but never as much as I have seen here at CAF. I have acted angry myself at times and do deeply regret the action. But for me it is Christs wish for us to love one another. So God Bless on your journey with Christ

 

[mpjw2]

Hi TweetyMom,

But one thing I have seen from some Protestants, that I haven’t seen from Catholics, is the charge of being “non-Christian” or even “pagan” leveled against Catholics…

The accusation by some Protestants towards Catholics that Catholics are non-Christian/Pagan originates, as I understand it, with some particular faith’s need to justify its existence. A paltry excuse for defaming people if I have ever heard one.
This is extremely offensive and uncharitable

Hi Melanie

if you have not noticed that is the precise reason I opened the following thread…

message to non-catholics
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375301

Somewhere in my past, I am sure I made some derogatory comments…to which I apologized for…to you for one

I don’t remember ever seeing this sort of thing leveled against a Protestant by a Catholic (not saying it doesn’t ever happen,

in due respect Melanie, it happened right on this forum.

again, if you have not noticed, that is precisely why I opened this thread
message to all christians
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=376665

Which is why I go back to the idea I posted previously (not sure if it was this thread or another). Imagine a world where everyone treated everyone else as Jesus would, or as if Jesus were standing beside them. (Sorry, but the very-Protestant WWJD ~ What Would Jesus Do ~ comes to mind here, but it’s pertinent.)

and for that reason I opened this thread so as to encourage all of us to focus on Jesus love and for us to be more like Him.

Jesus’ church of christian love
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=376693

even when I opened a thread of this nature look at post #16

it scares me to think there are more catholics who believe the same way as PJM

what your suggesting is that we should ignore truth so we can all “get along”

I know we disagree, but to quote scripture backing up what one believes and if I do not agree, they do not want to be part of anythhing I promote…even when I focused on Jesus.

I thank God for James who took a stand and posted what was the right thing to do…

I Pray we all take this thread in th spirit it is intended.

PJM then stated his reasons for posting and said James was right…
It is my hope PJM apologized to the Lord

if we lived in a world that DWJW…Did What Jesus Would…

In that sort of world we would, I suppose, have heaven on earth.

yes we would:thumbsup:

But we don’t have that. To the extent that we, individually, do not “do as Jesus” would, we create problems, and when these problems are magnified by the numbers of people in the world, we end up with huge problems, disagreements, etc…

this is exactly what I illustrated in the following thread…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5701633&postcount=379

Melanie, we have to remember too there are outsiders looking in.
In another thread I posted, StrawberryJam (agnostic) also posted and made the following comment in the thread in which Catholics were in disagreement with me…

Who you should be upset with, is your own organization for having a program that you feel did not adequately address these things. Instead, you choose to humilliate your brother in Christ.

And, you wonder why some sit on the fence?

I can almost hear her say …“if this is God’s united one church, I am not sure I want to be part of it”

I do not know about you, but that would concern me. btw it does.
from his/her statement, I realize the need to be a better christian towards other people

May God’s love be in our hearts always,

mpjw2

I just noticed melanie you never answered my question at the end of #381,

what then???

 

[mpjw2]

dear christian friends,

In light of what StrawberryJam said in the other thread,
I wish to share with you with a special message I treasure with my heart, I am sure will bless us all with the love of God

imagine if you will getting an envelope in the mail addressed to you, and contained within the envelope is a love letter from your significant other…

wouldn’t you treasure that letter and read every word and absorb every word you read into your heart?

I know I would and have done and will continue to do.

Friends that is how I read the bible…

God’s love letter to me and to all of you

Within the bible are precious little gems (verses) and I believe the whole bible is "built’ around the verses.

the following video on you tube extracts from the bible everyone of those verses…

youtube.com/watch?v=hIspSTEHM2U

here are the verses and references
fathersloveletter.com/text.html

my prayer is that you are blessed by it just as much as I am

God bless you all

mpjw

 

[tweetymom]

I too feel the same way about the Bible. It is Gods love letter to us.And as I have stated before I have been very ugly in the past. And I have apoliged. My wish is that no matter what we could act like Jesus would want us too. You think one way I think another but we need to think like Jesus and He was not the author of confusion. God Bless all in your jouney with Jesus:clapping:

 

[MelanieAnne]

mpjw2

I just noticed melanie you never answered my question at the end of #381,

what then???

I thought your question was more rhetorical than anything else but if you actually want an answer, I don’t have one. That’s something Jesus will need to sort out. I think that Jesus couldn’t have been more clear about the matter, but obviously there are many who have other ideas and many express their other ideas far less graciously than you do. But as to what happens if you got it wrong, that’s “above my pay grade”

I believe Jesus and trust what He said. That may seem rather simple but that’s OK with me. Others seem to want to “read between the lines” and find different meanings from the plain, straightforward words of the Gospel. That’s their choice.

 

[distracted]

well if that is the case then all christians are catholic

name me a christian family that does not believe the bible

Catholics (devout, practicing) are totally different creatures than protestants…

and you have to BE Catholic to understand that truth…

 

[AChris]

Achris…I do not know if you overlooked my reply to you…here it is again

Do you believe I can enter heaven if I should die as a non catholic???

thank you and God bless

mpjw, I did see your comment, but I didn’t think it needed a response. But to your question I would have to answer no, you would not enter heaven if you died as a non-Catholic. There are plenty of Church dogmas that say: Outside the Church there is no salvation.

 

[AChris]

Since you didn’t quote those you disagreed with, with all due respect, could you please just copy and paste them? so we know?

thanks!

OK, it was your post, MarieAnne, that I disagreed with:

“I cannot understand how anyone can truly believe that someone who NEVER had the chance to hear the word of God, regardless of anything else, is automatically consigned to hell. That makes no sense to me. So I could never ever be a member of a faith who subscribed to that notion.”

Chris

 

[AChris]

So I replied:

I disagree. Of course I’ve met converts from the church of Christ who converted solely because they didn’t like that group’s teaching that they are the only ones going to heaven. But that doesn’t make it right or wrong. What we feel about it doesn’t matter, and even what we think about it doesn’t matter. That’s why we have dogma, so we can all believe the truth and it’s up to us to either accept it or deny it, to accept or deny truth, to accept or deny God.

The Church has defined over and over that, like the ark of Noah, you have to be onboard to be saved.

We can try to rationalize as much as we want, and let our feelings interfere, or even use Vatican II (which didn’t define anything new, and said right in the introduction that everything in it must be understood in the light and understanding of previously defined dogmas) to say the opposite of what had clearly been defined previously…that every human being must be subject to the Holy Father, be baptized, be Catholic, in order to go to heaven.

Oh, but God is just! Yes, so true, and that’s why nobody deserves to go to heaven as if it’s a right…something God owes us. Remember original sin…and remember we’re not already “saved”. We’re redeemed…we’re justified…but not “saved” until we die and are judged by God.

 

[MelanieAnne]

So I replied:

I disagree. Of course I’ve met converts from the church of Christ who converted solely because they didn’t like that group’s teaching that they are the only ones going to heaven. But that doesn’t make it right or wrong. What we feel about it doesn’t matter, and even what we think about it doesn’t matter. That’s why we have dogma, so we can all believe the truth and it’s up to us to either accept it or deny it, to accept or deny truth, to accept or deny God.

The Church has defined over and over that, like the ark of Noah, you have to be onboard to be saved.

We can try to rationalize as much as we want, and let our feelings interfere, or even use Vatican II (which didn’t define anything new, and said right in the introduction that everything in it must be understood in the light and understanding of previously defined dogmas) to say the opposite of what had clearly been defined previously…that every human being must be subject to the Holy Father, be baptized, be Catholic, in order to go to heaven.

Oh, but God is just! Yes, so true, and that’s why nobody deserves to go to heaven as if it’s a right…something God owes us. Remember original sin…and remember we’re not already “saved”. We’re redeemed…we’re justified…but not “saved” until we die and are judged by God.

You may be right.

But I have heard at least one Priest say that if you never heard the word of God, or if you heard it but it was explained imperfectly, you will have a chance at some point in your existence. This is consistent with the notion of a merciful God. I have heard far more rejection of the Calvinist way of thinking (the “my way or the highway” sort) than I have heard acceptance of it, within the CC.

 

[caoindealbhan]

No. There are many good people throughout the world, that do not know they are led by the power of the Holy Spirit to do good. Their correctly -formed conscience brings them to heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

mpjw, I’m not sure why you shared that comment Strawberry Jam made to me :

originally posted by Strawberry Jam: Who you should be upset with, is your own organization for having a program that you feel did not adequately address these things. Instead, you choose to humilliate your brother in Christ.

He was claiming that I’d “humiliated” you in another post, yet you responded, kindly,

btw …I was not insulted by the comment PR made

So I’m confused what your point was in sharing Strawberry Jam’s comment. It seems that you’re giving legitimacy to his claim.

 

[mpjw2]

mpjw, I’m not sure why you shared that comment Strawberry Jam made to me

:…

Strawberry Jam:

Who you should be upset with, is your own organization for having a program that you feel did not adequately address these things. Instead, you choose to humilliate your brother in Christ

.

He was claiming that I’d “humiliated” you in another post, yet you responded, kindly,

So I’m confused what your point was in sharing Strawberry Jam’s comment. It seems that you’re giving legitimacy to his claim

.

PRmerger…yes I responded I was not insulted by your comment to me, but that was after I saw Strawberry’s comment to you.

The reason I posted here because of what Melanieanne said …

that we, individually, do not “do as Jesus” would, we create problems, and when these problems are magnified by the numbers of people in the world, we end up with huge problems, disagreements, etc…

Strawberry initially made the comment to you not knowing if I was insulted or not.

He/she is not a christian (agnostic) and I believe expressed concern about what he/she thought was a humiliating remark you made towards me…

From some of the threads here, do you in your heart of hearts believe that a non christian would feel Jesus’ love and unity?

why do you believe Strawberry would make… not the first comment but the second one?

And, you wonder why some sit on the fence?

The reason I posted her comment here was to illustrate to melanieanne our disagreements can cause big problems if they become a roadblock to someone who is seeking christianity.

Try putting on strawberry’s ‘shoes’ and read some of these threads.

Would you want to become a christian?

That is why I posted the comment

mpjw2

 

[mpjw2]

distracted

by the way, the word Catholic is the same as waht you call yourself… . meaning that being Catholic means being a Bible-believing Christian.

mpjw2

well if that is the case then all christians are catholic

name me a christian family that **does not believe **the bible

you replied…

Catholics (devout, practicing) are totally different creatures than protestants…

and you have to BE Catholic to understand that truth…

Distracted , did you misread something here.

Look at what I requested,and then your response.

It appears that you are saying catholics do not believe the bible, would you like to reply again on what you meant?

btw I agree with what I believe you meant that Catholics are bible believing christians, correct??

but

not ALL bible believing christians are catholic, agree?

thank you

mpjw2

 

[mpjw2]

But as to what happens if you got it wrong, that’s “above my pay grade” .

Melanie thank you for respnding. It is this comment which says a ton.

Can we all let God be the judge?

Lets face the fact that we all need to agree to disagree on some issues to say the least.

 

[mpjw2]

mpjw, I did see your comment, but I didn’t think it needed a response. But to your question I would have to answer no,** you would not enter **heaven if you died as a non-Catholic. There are plenty of Church dogmas that say: Outside the Church there is no salvation.

AChris congratulations, you are the first one who echoed my beliefs as a young catholic. I too believed only catholics can make it to heaven.

I realize you are not judging me but rather answering a direct question.

If I do not become a catholic it is your belief that God will not save me.

In all due respect, I flat out do not believe you or any documentation you can quote other than the bible which says that.

You can not quote the bible because catholic is not even in the bible.

I believe there are many catholics who believe like you but have not posted

I also believe there are many who totally disagree with you

If you were to look at Jesus, would you give the same answer??
…look at Jesus,not the church teachings or dogmas…but look at Jesus.

Just answer one more question if I may ask?

Why did Jesus suffer and die the way He did?

no biblical verse answer, but one straight from your heart.

Why??

with your answer remember there are non christians who are wondering too

thank you

God bless

mpjw2

 

[PRmerger]

From some of the threads here, do you in your heart of hearts believe that a non christian would feel Jesus’ love and unity?

If you are saying that many on these threads could post with more charity, then I agree with you 100%. Perhaps someone who was sitting on the fence would consider Catholicism or Christianity because someone on this forum gave them a virtual embrace when they were feeling down…

However, I think it’s much more likely that the TRUTH will convert someone. When we post something that’s difficult to accept, such as Christ’s teaching on divorce, it may turn others away who are not willing to change their lives. They’d rather change churches. I feel great sadness about that, but I will not edit God’s message so someone can be confirmed in their sin and feel good about it.

why do you believe Strawberry would make… not the first comment but the second one?

I believe Strawberry was intentionally being inflammatory and provocative.

But, I leave that up to the moderators to call people on being inflammatory, and on being disrespectful. If the mods have left a post up, I defer to their authority in believing that it must not have been disrespectful or inflammatory.

 

[distracted]

I thought your question was more rhetorical than anything else but if you actually want an answer, I don’t have one. That’s something Jesus will need to sort out. I think that Jesus couldn’t have been more clear about the matter, but obviously there are many who have other ideas and many express their other ideas far less graciously than you do. But as to what happens if you got it wrong, that’s “above my pay grade”

I believe Jesus and trust what He said. That may seem rather simple but that’s OK with me. Others seem to want to “read between the lines” and find different meanings from the plain, straightforward words of the Gospel. That’s their choice.

Jesus said it was difficult getting to Heaven (St Mt 7:13, 20, St Lk 13:23 [or St Mk, get them mixed upsometimes])… Anyhow… the narrow way is Catholicism… and even that ismore complicated than that because not all Catholics are on that narrow road…

but in any case, it is not easy to get to Heaven… even those who make it have to go thruogh the purging process either on Earth or in Purg…

and the saints call Purg excrutiating… so it is best we do our purging here rather than later… offer up our sufferings in expiation, attend many Masses… and just basically do everyhing we must to live the Word of God…

Jesus said that if your foot causes you to stumble cut it off and cast it from you… Problem is a lot of people stumble but refuse to cut off their foot…(figuratively speaking, of course)… They might need it to go to the Video store to get that R rated movie they’ve been wanting to see… or to go shopping for material things.they don’t need… or for whatever…

 

[distracted]

It appears that you are saying catholics do not believe the bible, would you like to reply again on what you meant?

btw I agree with what I believe you meant that Catholics are bible believing christians, correct??

but

not ALL bible believing christians are catholic, agree?

thank you

mpjw2

Catholics believe the Bible more than anyone else… the practicing ones, that is, the ones who attend as many masses as they can… but evne if they don’t… they may hear more of the Word than some Protestnats… someone did a study once to find out how much time differnet denoms used in actually reading the Word, verbatim from the Bible (without sermonizing, etc)… Baptists, if i recall was something like 2-6%… Other denoms were from 2-4%… The most in the protestnat churches was 6%… In the Catholic Church it is 26%…

i get very tired of that old saying that Catholics don’t know the Bible… Just becaues they can’t find some particular passage, just becaue they don’t know exact chapt and verse… .doesn’t mean they don’t know it… We hear it far more than Protestnats do, generally speaking…

I don’t read the bible much at home because for some reason it is MUCH easier to accept and believe wht i read / hear whne i am in Church…

Why do i say For some reason??

I KNOW the reason: the Real Presence…

 

[distracted]

No. There are many good people throughout the world, that do not know they are led by the power of the Holy Spirit to do good. Their correctly -formed conscience brings them to heaven.

but it is much harder for a non-Catholic to get to Heaven… They don’t havethe helps we CAtholics have…

Christianity is a super-natural religion… which means, of cours, that it goes above and beyond mere human “stuff”… human nature…

things like the rosary… ( which is what made me [an objectively- speaking] Christian btw)… lift us up *away from the world *we know… The Mass does this also… :heaven:

if you dont’ have these thing, it is very hard to keep your mind on the things above, as the Bible says… Even those who have all these helps find it difficult… to stay focused on what is important, reject what is not ultimately important…

Jesus said it is hard to get into Heaven and i know from experience how hard it is to even think of Heaven all the time and do certain things Christ commands… Well, it is actually easy to think about Heaven… sometimes… but then someone does something and we want to blow his head off or something…
and then we throw our Christianity out the window… if only temporarily…

no wonder Jesus said that if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off …

your foot is something very valuable to you… helps you to get around so you can take care of your business… but if it causes you to sin, its time to say goodbye… cut it off, painful as that is…

Cutting it off is painful enoguh, going around foot-less is even worse…