do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[PRmerger]

What does the catholic church teach, if anything, about the eternal destination for these christians?

It teaches that they have the possibility of eternal life with Christ.

 

[smask63]

I don’t think Paul was always in constant fear of losing his salvation. He knew that he could fall but he also knew that God would be faithful when he was weak. He certainly didn’t tell anyone to live in fear of losing eternal life.

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,m neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Phil 1:4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

The word for “confident” is NOT equal to assurance!
This is what Paul said, “No I drive my body and train it, FOR FEAR THAT, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.”- 1Cor.9:27
I recently read an article either in THIS ROCK (Cath. Answers) or First Things about ? of assurance of salvation. They gave the example of a student saying, “I know I’m going to get an A on the test.” The student means to say that he/she is confident of doing well because he/she is prepared. There is no way of KNOWING for sure he will get an A. Just like there is no way for us to know for certain that we know God’s will. We pray for God to show us His will and let us be instrumental in His will, but apart from personal revelation by God we do not KNOW without a doubt.
You’re absolutely right in saying that WITH God we will “carry it on to completion” as the biblical verse says, but the fact is that we are human and can at any time if our guard is down or if we give in to tempation fall from grace.
Also, in the other verses you quoted above, Paul is praying for us to be kept blameless; he knows God is on our side but that we can still fall short. God can keep us blameless only if we ask Him to be the Lord of our life every day and we stay determined to follow Him.
Re: Romans 5:1 When we are in a state of grace (right with God) we have indeed gained access by faith(followed by good works, of course) into this grace. We HOPE and pray to stay in this state of grace and if, God forbid, we commit mortal sin, we will fall from this state of grace with God. But our God is so loving that even if we should fall, he has given us one way “of knowing for sure” that we are forgiven by Him. Reconciliation (confession) through one of his priests. He promised us (John 20:22-23) by giving his apostles the power to forgive sins as though Jesus were forgiving the sins Himself. “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” If we are truly sorry for a mortal sin, God will forgive us through a priest." We are then restored to a state of grace as long as we are sincere in never committing that sin again. Now, that’s assurance!!

 

[smask63]

excellent post Ron

key word in verse 6 of Phil1 …confident

I am confident that you will continue to pray, but I am not assured! Please assure me by praying every day.

 

[Jason_1977]

I heard something on Catholic Answers Radio years ago concerning this…

I can’t remember who said it but he was a guest on the show and he said that all Christians will be Catholic before they get into Heaven. If the person is a protestant and dies in a state of grace, he will go to Purgatory and then will learn that the Roman Catholic Church was the One Church… founded by Christ and will then have to, in Purgatory… well, to paraphrase his words… he will have to become Catholic…

i totally belive this.

so why are we not working harder to make everyone Catholic??

true, we can’t make anyone Catholic any more than we can make everyone Republican (Too bad, huh??)

but there are many things we can do…

and it seems we aren’t doing them… seems we Catholics don’t want to make too many more Catholics… (genearlly speakign)

In very few words, my answer would be the lack of evangelization. Catholicism seems to evangelize the willing.

 

[Jason_1977]

I don’t think Paul was always in constant fear of losing his salvation. He knew that he could fall but he also knew that God would be faithful when he was weak. He certainly didn’t tell anyone to live in fear of losing eternal life.

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,m neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Phil 1:4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

you were so close to it, but maintain there should be no fear in the path to salvation, I suggest Phillipians 2:12

 

[Jason_1977]

:coffeeread: To the original post, I say, “NO, BUT IT HELPS.”:coffeeread:

 

[ron77nyc]

you were so close to it, but maintain there should be no fear in the path to salvation, I suggest Phillipians 2:12

I should have known someone would find a verse like that. I should have checked first.:doh2:

usccb.org/nab/bible/philippians/philippians2.htm
12 [12] Fear and trembling: a common Old Testament expression indicating awe and seriousness in the service of God (cf Exodus 15:16; Judith 2:28; Psalm 2:11; Isaiah 19:16).

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

**But don’t forget 13 **for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

You can’t have fear and trembling 24 hours a day. You need to rest sometime.The bible, written by Catholics for Catholics, so I have read on CAF, gives us both sides of the struggle.

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Jason_1977]

I should have known someone would find a verse like that. I should have checked first.:doh2:

usccb.org/nab/bible/philippians/philippians2.htm
12 [12] Fear and trembling: a common Old Testament expression indicating awe and seriousness in the service of God (cf Exodus 15:16; Judith 2:28; Psalm 2:11; Isaiah 19:16).

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

**But don’t forget 13 **for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

You can’t have fear and trembling 24 hours a day. You need to rest sometime.The bible, written by Catholics for Catholics, so I have read on CAF, gives us both sides of the struggle.

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Aww, it’s awright, we’re on the same team. It’s one I’ve commited to memory along w. a few others. I’m able to have a conversation w. people who like to try to overwhelm people in confusion by spewing out scripture. I enjoy doing it back & twice as fast, it doesn’t give them time to think very much & I love watching it come unraveled.!!! …Whatchya gonna do.? I just got a pocket bible just in case to leave in my car THAT way I can say, HANG ON, lemme run to my car really quick…and then hash it out. Because I tell people, you know, Christ didnt have scholars as disciples. He had big strong burly smelly fisherman at his side. SO, I have been doing my best to combat them. One at a time. I’m 6 & 0 !!!. Yes I count. Even if they still disagree w. the teachings, they have given up trying to convince me that theirs is the winning arguement. I just got through telling another guy that there is no gospel according to Paul. BUT, if you make a place for things, things come. I like to think I can add a little chlorine to the pool here :coffeeread:

 

[smask63]

you were so close to it, but maintain there should be no fear in the path to salvation, I suggest Phillipians 2:12

The fear in Phil.2:12 “fear and trembling” is different than the fear of losing salvation. While Christians should indeed think positively, we must remember that temptation is real and unless we’re aware that we can lose our salvation, we are more in danger of not having our guard up.
St. Paul was indeed afraid of losing his salvation. 1Cor. 9:27 “No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” If St. Paul could be disqualified, I think we’re definitely all at risk.
“The sole purpose of life in time is to gain merit for life in eternity.” -Saint Augustine

 

[PRmerger]

Yes PR,understood, I’m afraid I was responding to MPJW in a rather sarcastic manner, you know concerning a couple of my earlier posts to him.Carlan

Ah. I see, then.

The post was perhaps helpful to the many lurkers who may have mistakenly thought that Jesus actually went to hell, and not the abode of the dead??

 

[mpjw2]

You are indeed wrong. I did not write the majority of those quotes you attributed to me.

PR I am sorry. please accept my apologies for quoting distracted’s post and saying it was yours.

 

[mpjw2]

to distracted…

Quote:
Inside the Real Presence is BETTER… Understatement of the feaking year…

Distracted, I sincerely hope you were not substituting feaking for something else. That is not cool if you were.

I apologize in advance if I am wrong.

 

[PRmerger]

PR I am sorry. please accept my apologies for quoting distracted’s post and saying it was yours.

Accepted.

I know it’s hard to keep everyone apart–we’re just faceless names…but! View my public profile and you can see an itty-bitty photo of me and my family. I’m the pretty one sitting down. Maybe that will help personalize the conversation a bit.

 

[mpjw2]

Accepted.

I know it’s hard to keep everyone apart–we’re just faceless names…but! View my public profile and you can see an itty-bitty photo of me and my family. I’m the pretty one sitting down. Maybe that will help personalize the conversation a bit.

PR, thank you for sharing your family photo

 

[guanophore]

Because of Jesus, we do not have to pay the price…**hell, which we deserve **for our sinful wretchful ways

what did Jesus do?

Jesus sacrificed Himself, himself being as pure and sinfree which goes beyond human understanding, and because He loved us…as you said, “He bore our sins on the cross”,

and after His death, He paid the price…**hell which He did not deserve **

Yes, this is the Apostolic Teaching.

Staying in hell temporarily negates substitution?

No.

The penalty we deserve is ETERNITY in hell. Substitution is negated because He did not take our place in hell.

The fact that Jesus defeated death, hell, and resurrected from the dead is testament that Jesus is everything who He claimed to be.

Amen!

 

[guanophore]

absolutely not

Jesus went to hell temporarily to complete His sacrifice He made for us in our place.

That is not the testimony of the Holy Scriptures about why He went there.

What makes you believe this?

 

[guanophore]

I have one question? That as some say that only CC is right

They would be mistating the facts. Although the fullness of the faith has been preserved in the catholic Church, there are large portions of Apostolic Truth to be found in non-Catholic ecclesial communities. The Catholic Church affirms this, and teaches that the HS uses these non-Catholic communities to draw people to Himself.

and those who are Catholics are only right?

I can’t imagine why anyone would make such a preposterous statement. Anyone with common sense can see that the vast majority of American Catholics have disavowed basic tenets of the faith.

You are a prime example of this, claiming to be Catholic, and posting non-Catholic answers.

If the Catholic faith is to be evaluated by all the individual Catholics who claim to espouse the faith, it is no wonder we are in trouble! The majority of individual Catholics are a poor example of the faith, myself included.

Then I have a burning question, why does God answer prayers of us all? I could share 4 miracle answers from God this last week,

While I do affirm that God answers the prayers of all who sincerely seek Him, it would be an error to assume that, because He does so, we are in the fullness of the faith He wants us to be in. He meets us where we are, and commands us to come into unity.

 

[Janet1983]

Wow… we got off-topic 3 days / 5 pages ago…
And we haven’t strayed back yet… I guess because the topic has ben sliced and diced in several ways and the discussion was slowly continued into a different direction…
Just to sum it all up (and I hope this is the correct summary… help me out if I’m wrong in my assessment):

(A)

1. 
   *]Some say that it is OK to be Non-Catholic or even Non-Christian as long as one is sincere in whatever belief and has not sufficient knowledge of the Catholic faith.
   *]Some say that all Non-Christians go to hell.
   *]Some say that there will be a conversion towards Catholicism in purgatory.
   
   Then there has also been a discussion about the terms Non-Catholic and Christian (as these have to be defined before the discussion about whether or not a Non-Catholic can go to heaven).
   
   (B)
   1. 
      *]Some called Non-Catholics Christians
      *]Some said that Non-Catholics were part of the Catholic Church if they were validly baptized (though this membership would be imperfect)
      *]Some called Non-Catholics Non-Christians
      
      As far as I’ve understood the conversations and related links the official teaching would be A1 and B2…
      Did I get it right so far?

 

[guanophore]

God answers prayer. He does not forsake His people…
I know of one myself just this last week… I felt sick, my stomach was in a bad state and I had been tired for days… I went to choir practice (even though I might have looked dreadful) and I asked the others to pray for me as much as I did pray… That was on Wednesday night… After that I went to bed still feeling exceedingly terrible.
The next morning (Thursday) I woke up at 0730 in the morning and I felt as refreshed and healthy as I hadn’t in days… I would actually say that I hadn’t woken up that refreshed in months. I got up, side-stepped the coffee and caught up on the housework I hadn’t been able to do in the days before that and I turned the house upside down without getting tired.
God answers prayers, though not always in the way we want him to… there are several answers we can get:
“Yes.”
“No.”
“Wait. / Later.”
“You’ve got to be kidding.”

This is a great testimony to God’s healing power. In James, it is written “you do not have, because you do not ask”.

 

[guanophore]

speaking of salvation…

Let me present to you a co-worker I knew who was raised catholic and received all the sacraments.

As an adult he walked away from the church… not just the catholic church but any church.

He has not been to any mass or worship service for years.

He has not lost his belief in God or Jesus

What does the catholic church teach regarding salvation for catholics like my co-worker should they die as they presently are living?

thank you and God bless

mpjw

“unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish”

The Church teaches us to pray and seek after such a one, if perchance he can be saved, though his garment may have the smell of smoke, emanating from the fire of hell into which he is walking.