do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

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I’m thinking more like this: making it a mortal sin to miss Mass on a holy day and making it a mortal sin to eat meat during Lent and then excusing those in Irish communities so they can eat corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day. St. Paul wrote about this. He lived under the laws of the Old Covenant
Jesus told his disciples to do what the Pharisees said, not what they did. “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” Matt 23:2

God also commanded us to “Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account.” Hebrews 3:17
 
So after 1315 posts **we **are still saying both are true.
Oh! You are saying both are true, too? :extrahappy:
You have to be a Catholic to be saved and you don’t have to be a Catholic to be saved
You must embrace the Head (Christ) as well as the Body (the CC) in order to be saved is what I’m saying. To the degree that a person embraces Christ is the degree that God will judge him.
 
Maybe not, but at the time, there were no Protesant denominations, only apostates, and heretics. When one reads such historical documents, one must understand them in their context.
There were Eastern Catholics, Jews and Muslims. The Church has changed its mind. The Church of yesterday was preaching a much different salvation message from that of the present day.

THE CHURCH TODAY

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

THE CHURCH BEFORE VATICAN II

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): “[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
 
LKF (Little Known Fact): Nobody in heaven admits to having been non-Catholic prior to heaven.** :rolleyes:
 
Dear 2ndAdam

You seem to not answer many questions, and just keep asking questions.
For someone who has studied the Bible for 20 years, you sure seem confused and lacking solid arguments.
**What an interesting topic. Where in Scripture does it teach that you need to be Catholic to get into Heaven? When the Philippian jailer cried out what must I do to be saved, what was the Apostle’s answer? **
I think even if it literally said “You must be a CATHOLIC in the Bible”, you still would not believe it. Many, many say “where in the Bible?”
I think if Christ’s life was documented, and his words, every word documented, well we wouldn’t an almost an infinte number of pages to read.

Again, do not shy away from the points in the Bible regarding the Eucharist, and whoever eats of His flesh will have Eternal Life.
God, I do not think, does not speak in fairy tale riddles, saying one thing but meaning another. And so, why would He, in your opinion, say all that He did about His body and Blood, take this all of you and eat it, this is my Body…why would he riddle and rhyme for symbolism!?** He is God, not Budda or New Age.**

Another thought, Christ died on the cross, suffered a Passion that is indescribable, and all to tell us to have faith in Him and that is it?
Please leave your 20 years of asking Bible questions, that seem empty and heartless, and answer from your heart.🙂

Peace and blessings

JMJ
 
Dear 2ndAdam

You seem to not answer many questions, and just keep asking questions.
For someone who has studied the Bible for 20 years, you sure seem confused and lacking solid arguments.
What an interesting topic. Where in Scripture does it teach that you need to be Catholic to get into Heaven? When the Philippian jailer cried out what must I do to be saved, what was the Apostle’s answer?
The Philippian Jailer Converted

About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone’s bonds were unfastened. When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “**Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” **And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. 34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God. - The Holy Bible

The Message of Salvation to All

For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) or “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, **if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. ** For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” - The Holy Scriptures

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. - The Word of God
 
Oh! You are saying both are true, too? :extrahappy:

You must embrace the Head (Christ) as well as the Body (the CC) in order to be saved is what I’m saying. To the degree that a person embraces Christ is the degree that God will judge him.
You know you are on it more than you think. Look at it from this point (because it is the truth). The Protestant churches are still linked to the Catholic church. How you may ask? Because of the unChrist like behavior (the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time were really acting like the Pharisees during Jesus’ time, do as I say not as I do) and actions of the Catholic Church (fading away from the truth of the Scriptures). Martin Luther questioned the actions of the Catholic Church, they refused to answer (pride thinking they are doing right all the time and never wrong), thus the lack of response caused the reformation and now we have the Protestant church (thanks to the Catholic Church). So, these 40,000+ Protestant denominations are all from the lack of response from the Catholic Church. The true church created us, so therefore we are a creation of the true church, thus we are part of the true church. Catholics really like to skip over the reformation don’t they. Sorry guys you can’t. I would have to say we would be the feet of the church body, since we walked away from the hipocracy of the people running the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time. I’m good with that since the FEET are the ones that move around and evangelize more then the rest of the body.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
 
You know you are on it more than you think. Look at it from this point (because it is the truth). The Protestant churches are still linked to the Catholic church. How you may ask? Because of the unChrist like behavior (the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time were really acting like the Pharisees during Jesus’ time, do as I say not as I do) and actions of the Catholic Church (fading away from the truth of the Scriptures). Martin Luther questioned the actions of the Catholic Church, they refused to answer (pride thinking they are doing right all the time and never wrong), thus the lack of response caused the reformation and now we have the Protestant church (thanks to the Catholic Church). So, these 40,000+ Protestant denominations are all from the lack of response from the Catholic Church. The true church created us, so therefore we are a creation of the true church, thus we are part of the true church. Catholics really like to skip over the reformation don’t they. Sorry guys you can’t. I would have to say we would be the feet of the church body, since we walked away from the hipocracy of the people running the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time. I’m good with that since the FEET are the ones that move around and evangelize more then the rest of the body.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
👍
 
You know you are on it more than you think. Look at it from this point (because it is the truth). The Protestant churches are still linked to the Catholic church. How you may ask? Because of the unChrist like behavior (the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time were really acting like the Pharisees during Jesus’ time, do as I say not as I do) and actions of the Catholic Church (fading away from the truth of the Scriptures). Martin Luther questioned the actions of the Catholic Church, they refused to answer (pride thinking they are doing right all the time and never wrong), thus the lack of response caused the reformation and now we have the Protestant church (thanks to the Catholic Church). So, these 40,000+ Protestant denominations are all from the lack of response from the Catholic Church. The true church created us, so therefore we are a creation of the true church, thus we are part of the true church. Catholics really like to skip over the reformation don’t they. Sorry guys you can’t. I would have to say we would be the feet of the church body, since we walked away from the hipocracy of the people running the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time. I’m good with that since the FEET are the ones that move around and evangelize more then the rest of the body.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
excellent point ronin 👍

speaking of evangelizing, and producing “good fruit”

I invite all to give a brief testimony in the following thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375389

on how you were a witness for Christ and, because of your witness, you produced good fruit whereas a non believer saw the “light” and became a believer

let us all be blessed by these testomonies.

God bless

mpjw
 
Oh! You are saying both are true, too? :extrahappy:

You must embrace the Head (Christ) as well as the Body (the CC) in order to be saved is what I’m saying. To the degree that a person embraces Christ is the degree that God will judge him.
in catholics eyes, since we do not have the fullness of truth, this degree is not a 100% embrace

I wonder then what the limit is in order to be saved…

50%?

75%?

80%?
 
in catholics eyes, since we do not have the fullness of truth, this degree is not a 100% embrace

I wonder then what the limit is in order to be saved…

50%?

75%?

80%?
The CC does not have a teaching on this, so we are free to speculate.

I, myself, believe that it’s complete arrogance to tell Jesus, “I believe your Words when you say A, B, and C but, as for D…not so much”. So, in my opinion, 75% embracing is…well…imponderable.
 
You know you are on it more than you think. Look at it from this point (because it is the truth). The Protestant churches are still linked to the Catholic church. How you may ask?
Yes, indeed, they are still linked to the CC. I do not need to ask how, Ed. The CC teaches you are linked to the degree that you preach the truth of the Gospel.

For example…

the denominations that still preach the perpetual virginity of Mary–linked to us!
the denominations that still preach baptism saves you–linked to us!
the denominations that still preach that Sunday is the Lord’s day–linked to us!
the denominations that still preach that it is immoral to divorce and re-marry—linked to us!
the denominations that still preach abortion is gravely sinful–linked to us!
etc etc etc!
Because of the unChrist like behavior (the Catholic church during Martin Luther’s time were really acting like the Pharisees during Jesus’ time, do as I say not as I do)
Perhaps:sad_yes:
So, these 40,000**+ **Protestant denominations are all from the lack of response from the Catholic Church.
Unlikely. The little church down the street from me started when one of the congregants disagreed with his Mega Church using trumpets in their choir. He thought it wasn’t biblical, so he started his own church and took 20-30 people with him.

How many of us could tell stories of people leaving a church in a snit and starting another!

Or people who church-shop until they find a church whose teaching agrees with their personal belief. I dunno–it sounds backwards to me–shouldn’t you conform your beliefs to the Truth, not conform your truth to the church? 🤷

What the 40,000**+** (and thank you for adding the + to your quote 👍) Protestant denominations are from is the *Author of Deception and Confusion * It was a movement planned in hell and, sadly, people took it and ran with it.
 
Yes, indeed, they are still linked to the CC. I do not need to ask how, Ed. The CC teaches you are linked to the degree that you preach the truth of the Gospel.

For example…

the denominations that still preach the perpetual virginity of Mary–linked to us!

I agree with this! But what of Mary having children after Christ? True or False per the scripture??

the denominations that still preach baptism saves you–linked to us!

No salvation without Baptism? I thought the act of salvation was accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior? What if for ever reason you can’t get Baptized? You are damned to hell? Show me where it says that in Scripture please?

the denominations that still preach that Sunday is the Lord’s day–linked to us!

Agreed 100%!!
the denominations that still preach that it is immoral to divorce and re-marry—linked to us!

Agree 100%

the denominations that still preach abortion is gravely sinful–linked to us!
etc etc etc!

Agree 100%

Perhaps:sad_yes:
No perhaps about it.

Unlikely. The little church down the street from me started when one of the congregants disagreed with his Mega Church using trumpets in their choir. He thought it wasn’t biblical, so he started his own church and took 20-30 people with him.

That is the funniest thing I ever heard. Did someone try to tell him that what he thought was not Biblical? I noticed that alot of Catholics don’t like to correct people when it is stated in scripture to assist a fellow brother or sister in Christ when they go astray (or make an attempt).

How many of us could tell stories of people leaving a church in a snit and starting another!

Agreed, good point.

Or people who church-shop until they find a church whose teaching agrees with their personal belief. I dunno–it sounds backwards to me–shouldn’t you conform your beliefs to the Truth, not conform your truth to the church? 🤷

Defineatly! The Church should not deviate from the truth of scripture to appease any human.

What the 40,000**+** (and thank you for adding the + to your quote 👍) Protestant denominations are from is the *Author of Deception and Confusion * It was a movement planned in hell and, sadly, people took it and ran with it.
Agreed. However, don’t roll up all Protestant denomination in the “Enroute to hell” catagory. There are still many that go strickley by scripture even more so then some Catholic churches I’ve been in and you do have to admit that the average Catholic who sits in the pews doesn’t really do a lot of hands on reading of the Holy Bible. They listen to the priest and when mass is over they go home and don’t even crack open a Bible.

Some very good points sir. Please answer some of my above questions.

Take Care and May God Bless!
 
Unlikely. The little church down the street from me started when one of the congregants disagreed with his Mega Church using trumpets in their choir. He thought it wasn’t biblical, so he started his own church and took 20-30 people with him.

How many of us could tell stories of people leaving a church in a snit and starting another!

Or people who church-shop until they find a church whose teaching agrees with their personal belief. I dunno–it sounds backwards to me–shouldn’t you conform your beliefs to the Truth, not conform your truth to the church? 🤷

What the 40,000**+** (and thank you for adding the + to your quote 👍) Protestant denominations are from is the *Author of Deception and Confusion * It was a movement planned in hell and, sadly, people took it and ran with it.
The word of God is truth. Not the Catholic Church.

What is sad is that Catholics dont see their responsibility for church division.
 
Dear Hisalone
**The word of God is truth. Not the Catholic Church.
What is sad is that Catholics dont see their responsibility for church division. **
Those Catholics that leave the Catholic Church, and all the 40000+ Protestants divided FROM EACHOTHER, let alone Catholics, are responsible themselves, as they choose to run because they cannot accept the "tough love"teachings of the Catholic Church.

Like I keep saying, praying in your room, and accepting the Christ as Lord and Saviour, while starting my own Church with the minister I want and the music I want to preach about my interpretations of the Bible, well, come on, it sounds like a ‘Convenience Store’ - can I also pick up some milk and cookies there too? Maybe a Marty Haugen song to go with it?

The word of God IS the Catholic Church, the Truth is the Catholic Church, it is all the same Catholic Church, that does not divide, the PEOPLE divide.

Peace of Christ, keep searching and asking questions 👍

JMJ
 
Oh! You are saying both are true, too? :extrahappy:

You must embrace the Head (Christ) as well as the Body (the CC) in order to be saved is what I’m saying. To the degree that a person embraces Christ is the degree that God will judge him.
And to the degree that we judge other people’s comittment to God and the road they take is the degree that we will be judged:thumbsup:
 
And PS Hisalone
**“The only thing necessary to becomming a saint is to desire it.” Thomas Merton **
Yes, but we can all desire anything we want, doesnt mean without action it is going to come. read the life of a saint and tell me if they just sat around desiring it, accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

I do believe they practiced mortifications, fasting, penance, hours of prayer before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, at mass, confessions weekly, almsgiving.
To desire sainthood, which is to desire Heaven, there are big requirements, yes not everyone to do the SAME thing, but some action, without ONLY Scripture, is required.
Look at any saint and argue against that.

Peace of Christ

JMJ
 
Dear Tweetymom,
And to the degree that we judge other people’s comittment to God and the road they take is the degree that we will be judged
We are called to share the Good News, the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church with others, and so to not do anything as to let people on the wrong road would be a judgment upon us.
If we see others sinning, leading others astray, on the wrong road,we never judge but we can lead.

God bless! 🙂

JMJ
 
Conversion and salvation are both the work of the Holy Spirit, not ours. If we claim that only Catholics can go to heaven then we have judged others too harshly. In fact you are condemning them to hell. The Word of God says quite simply that “Do not condemn, lest you be condemned.” I suggest that we stop pretending that WE know the mind of God.

The Catholic Church recognizes that the Holy Spirit is “active” in other ecclesial communities (most of which were formerly called Protestant Churches). In fact the modern Charismatic movement started in a non-Catholic Christian Churches, NOT the Catholic Church until almost 60 years later. Therefore, I submit that God has already made His decision obvious. It’s clear that anyone who follows the promptings of the Holy Spirit can be saved. In fact, if they do that, then I submit that they already have received the “Baptism of Desire”.

I think that John Paul II said in “Crossing the Threshold of Hope” that the “seeds” of Christ are found in other non-Catholic religions. Thus the question of salvation depends on how faithfully a member follows those “seeds”. We believe that the Catholic Church has the “fullness of Truth” about Christ. We have all 7 Sacraments, not 1 or 2 or 3 of them. We have a vision of the True Christ and a completely consistent moral teaching. In other words, we have ALL the seeds. However, even with all these benefits of truth, some (if not many) Catholics will still not be saved unless they faithfully follow those truths.

Consider that those in other non-C spiritual communities may only have SOME of the seeds of full truth. However, they may be following them MORE faithfully then many Catholics do with more of these seeds.

Finally, I believe that God can do anything. He is NOT even bound by the laws of His Church from providing the grace for non-Catholics to follow Him. We who are living only know of a few different kinds of baptism. The “usual” method is Baptism with water in His name. But the Church tells us that there are more ways. Perhaps those who have died know other ways too.

I’d like to think that Jesus gives each one of us a chance to follow Him at the time of death. This is especially fair for those who have never heard of the Good News about Christ. Sister Faustina may have it exactly right that Christ gives everyone 3 chances at the time of death to follow Him if they have not already done so before death.

I prefer to leave this “management decision” to God. I know what I have to do to get to heaven. That’s the only way I know how to get there for me. I’ll invite others to joint me in the best way I know. That is, via our Catholic Faith. However, I’ll leave the FINAL SALVATION DECISION for others to God. It’s His job !!

Yours in Christ, BobZ
What a great post and I do agree with you!! We can speculate all we want but until we meet Jesus face to face we won’t know who’s who. And I for one believe when I see Jesus it will be so wonderous I won’t care who was right and who was wrong. That will be a glorious day:bowdown2::love:
 
And PS Hisalone

Yes, but we can all desire anything we want, doesnt mean without action it is going to come. read the life of a saint and tell me if they just sat around desiring it, accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

I do believe they practiced mortifications, fasting, penance, hours of prayer before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, at mass, confessions weekly, almsgiving.
To desire sainthood, which is to desire Heaven, there are big requirements, yes not everyone to do the SAME thing, but some action, without ONLY Scripture, is required.
Look at any saint and argue against that.

Peace of Christ

You are correct, but the action is the result of accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. Our actions are dictated from our core (The Holy Bible). I agree with you 100%. I am sick of the “I accept Christ as my Lord and Savior”, but don’t bother me to help out at the homeless soup kitchen to feed the poor and homeless. Oh, and don’t expect me to share the Gospel with other people (If they aren’t Catholic already, they’re lost). Yeah, I know exactly where you are coming from. Actions are required, but actions alone don’t= Salvation. Remember our good works are like filthy rags before the Lord our God. Without Christ as our savior, the actions are all for nothing.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed

JMJ
 
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