Do you know people who pray in tongues?

[Roseeurekacross]

The singing, in my experience, is not in the same tune or type.

There is no musical accompaniment with what I have been witness to, and to have non singers be in tune and beautifully so, is a wonderous gift.

I believe your measure for what happens at a Catholic Charismatic group is clouded by non catholic Pentecostal movements

And again, whose to say the Holy Spirit is not at work in some of those prayer meetings.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Why not pray for this gift and see for yourself if it’s a learned behaviour. It’s hard to imagine someone with little or no exposure to this can ‘learn’ it by other than the Holy Spirit.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

We don’t have powerful , charasmatic leaders here, just normal quiet people. We don’t actually have leaders beyond someone organising venue, time, keys, etc.

Again, it’s such a pity views are clouded by the showmanship going on in your country amongst non Catholic groups

 

[Roseeurekacross]

There are false practices of jibberish. I have witnessed this myself also

Yes there are false practices, humans can be deceptive, for glory or monetary gain,

However to paint the Catholic Charismatic Movement with the same brush is an error, and a denial of the work of the Holy Spirit in today’s Church.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I ought to be bald headed from the number of Charismatics who have “prayed over me” to be healed, to be able to play the piano (don’t know where that one came from, but, it was a very earnest prayer for a group of them), to speak in tongues. As I stated before, I have been involved at the big, international level in the non-Catholic world and with the National level of the Catholic world. I just got off the phone with the regional director about a couple of Lenten Charismatic Missions she is scheduling.

Not my first rodeo

 

[MonteRCMS]

No.

[16 characters]

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Here is where I believe a lot of prayer is in error. These important words are what defines prayer

If it is your Will, Lord.

We don’t have to be Charismatic to pray for or over someone. That’s a real non catholic practice in its promotion. And very American.
Anyone can pray for someone. I mean, you can sit on the beach and pray for someone in the water, you don’t have to have your hands or person over them.

You can pray for yourself to receive Charisms according to God’s Will. As far as the ability to play a piano, ride a horse, sew a net, Will that ability be beneficial to build up the Church

 

[guanophore]

Speaking In Tongues is utter nonsense

This comes across as contradicting the Church.

I don’t recall an instance where in the bible the HS provoked people speak unintelligibly or speak jibberish

I am glad that you clarified that. I also do not recall an instance where the gift of tongues is “jibberish”. The gift of tongues is a valid gift. There has been abuse and misunderstanding of the gift, but that does not preclude that a valid gift of the HS exists.

It may be that the HS caused the “jibberish” at the tower of Babel…

Again, relative to Speaking in Tongues, the HS came to the disciples and provoked them to speak in multiple real languages and understand each other…

I think it is important for us to validate that there is an authentic gift, even if we have not witnessed it personally.

There is no authority needed – this is a matter of private revelation, at best. While the person engaging in the practice is free to believe it is the work of the Holy Spirit, others are free to believe that it is not.

I agree that it falls within the realm of private revelation, but the Magesterium has been clear that all this falls within the authority of the Church and should be submitted to authority.

 

[guanophore]

First, if you read the entire narrative, not one language is ever referenced by name – not one.

This idea is fascinating. I would love to read the paper on it! The reason I have always understood this differently is Acts. 2

"…because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And nthey were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking oGalileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” Acts 2;6 vf

The text seems to indicate that each of them heard what was being said in their “own language” (native or first language). I do not doubt that they knew some Hebrew and Greek, but it was probably not the mother tongue of all.

Most Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians look at three different examples of ‘tongues’ from three different sources:

Pentecost – xenoglossy – they spoke in languages they did not know.

it seems to me that the Apostles could have been speaking in their own native tongue, but that the listeners heard it “translated”.

Is category 1) (languages they did not know) inclusive of what Paul describes to be used in a gathering that needs to be interpreted? It does not seem to fit in any other category.

The spiritual “gift of tongues” (read “manifestation of languages”) therefore in addition to being a knack/ability for learning languages easily than others, is (as far as Paul was concerned), using that ability in spreading the message of Christianity and to the further glory of God. This may be said for any of the ‘gifts’, not just that of languages.

I think Fr. Mitch Pacwa may have this gift. He speaks 12 languages.

 

[thistle]

Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know for sure would be to do a study where we administer personality tests to those who identify as charismatic.

Most of my experience with charismatic Catholics is in a university setting. So I never noticed them being overly emotional and/or not prone to critical thinking.

They should submit themselves to the Church. Someone claiming they can speak in tongues does not in itself make it true. Anybody can claim anyhting.

My experience with these so-called charismatics has been negative. Going back to 1991/92 when I was in RCIA we had to attend a Life in the Spirit gathering. There were about 500 hundred of us in RCIA from many parishes.

The “leader” got up on stage to tell all of us (remember we were in the process of converting) that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit was in tongues and using normal languages it would not be possible. He then said exorcisms can be performed ONLY using tongues otherwise they were not effective.
Then he made made everyone open their mouths to make noises (absolutely stupid) and after we were forced to stand up and go around hugging people. Well I am not comfortable with that. I hug people I know and its spontaneous, not forced.

I left before the end and next day told my priest about my experience. He told me what they said was completely wrong. He asked if I would carry on with my conversion which of course I did. I wouldn’t be surprised though if that experience put others off.
Over the years I have friends who have had similar bad experiences.

Tongues for me is a load of nonsense. It is gibberish and meaningless. What Paul talked about were real foreign languages. This “tongues” is a modern innovation by people wanting to puff themselves up. I will never change my mind on that.

 

[TheLittleLady]

There was one such “healing Mass” nearby last year. The priest proceeded to get up and ask for everyone in that crowd who was praying for a child to stand up. Priest then told them that every single child for whom they were praying was miraculously healed. What a shameful, cruel thing to say to the parent who went home and their child still had the fatal heart condition and another who went home to a child still suffering from a brain tumor.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

The disciples at Pentecost spoke in their languages but understood by the listeners who did not speak the languages. Edit (sentence structure). This happened in a state of prayer and gathering. They did not speak in tongue at will any time.

What you’re describing is called “akolalia” - people speak language ‘X’ and others hear it as language ‘Y’ - This was not the case at Pentecost; it was not, as some assume, a miracle of ‘hearing’ .

I agree with you. I did not refer to the actual Bible passage.

Anyway, what is important was the Holy Spirit came. As a result, some apostles acquired charismatic gifts - not just the tongue but more, as I mentioned in the post.

That is why I said the tongue in Pentecost experience is rare.

In the Charismatic Renewal, they are more of the speaking in tongue and interpretation (1 Cor 12), and praying in tongue (Rom 8:26). The former to up-build the body of Christ (not common), the latter for personal use but also can be used in ministry (more common).

Speaking in tongue (1 Cor 12) can be alluded to the Pentecost experience, in the sense that the listeners understood the message in the tongue albeit through interpretation (which St. Paul said, it has to have an interpretor).

The gift of tongue is the least among the Charismatic gifts but important in that it can be the “door to the other gifts”.

In Act 2:4-13, they were filled with the Holy Spirit. They speak in other languages. Listeners heard them in their own language.

Acts 2
. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.

5 Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem. 6 And at this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in the native language of each. 7 Amazed and astonished, they asked, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language? 9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—in our own languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power.” 12 All were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others sneered and said, “They are filled with new wine.”

God bless.

Reuben

 

[Joe_5859]

The “leader” got up on stage to tell all of us (remember we were in the process of converting) that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit was in tongues and using normal languages it would not be possible. He then said exorcisms can be performed ONLY using tongues otherwise they were not effective.

Then he made made everyone open their mouths to make noises (absolutely stupid) and after we were forced to stand up and go around hugging people. Well I am not comfortable with that. I hug people I know and its spontaneous, not forced.

If that’s your experience of the Charismatic Renewal and speaking in tongues, I understand why you have such a negative opinion of it. That is pretty bizarre, not to mention theologically unsound.

My experience is much different. In the beginning when I first came into contact with it, I found it a little weird and way outside my comfort zone. But as I came to know people who were involved in it well, I became more comfortable with it. And while it’s still not something I ever do, nor is it something I’m completely comfortable with, I have a great amount of respect for those I know who pray in that way.

 

[Joe_5859]

They should submit themselves to the Church. Someone claiming they can speak in tongues does not in itself make it true. Anybody can claim anyhting.

Dr. Alan Schreck recently released a book on the Charismatic Renewal: A Mighty Current of Grace: The Story of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

He’s a professor at Franciscan University, involved in the Charismatic renewal, and he’s one of the censor librorums for the diocese. So he’s one of the guys the bishop tasks to review books and make sure they are in line with Catholic teaching.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

The “leader” got up on stage to tell all of us (remember we were in the process of converting) that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit was in tongues and using normal languages it would not be possible. He then said exorcisms can be performed ONLY using tongues otherwise they were not effective.

Then he made made everyone open their mouths to make noises (absolutely stupid) and after we were forced to stand up and go around hugging people. Well I am not comfortable with that. I hug people I know and its spontaneous, not forced.

That’s a horrendous error and deceitful. This is where I believe the horse bolted and people were not vetted properly if that was going on.

Where were the Ordained to ensure error was not perpetrated

That being said, your experience is not the defining experience.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Did you report it?

 

[thistle]

That being said, your experience is not the defining experience.

It was for me!

 

[thistle]

Did you report it?

Yes I reported it to my priest who told me what was said was complete nonsense.

 

[Reuben_J]

The leader obviously erred. There is no such teaching.

I can understand how you felt. I would probably feel the same way too especially after an unwanted experience like that.

There is always abuses in any spirituality. See lots of that especially in the Liturgy and Sacraments thread.

Like they said, do not throw the baby with the water out of the window. The Church is much diversified but is still one. That is her richness.

God bless.

 

[po18guy]

Come on! You are making things up based on emotion and not facts.

Why do you care? Why do you care how God chooses to build someone else up?

Read Paul! The person speaking in a tongue is being built up. Envious?

You deny the Holy Spirit’s ability to do this? Don’t go there!

Read your own words! They speak of personal preference, not revealed truth.

I don’t know what religion if any, you are, but the charisms are real - whether you like them or not.

Why not try to understand?

Why not?