Do you like or dislike Father Corapi?

[Roy5]

MARY, PAUL AND FR. CORAPI

 Probably you've heard enough from Roy. Obviously most of you (not all) don't pursue independent thinking. You are convinced that the Church is right always and everywhere, so there is little use in additional discussion. You follow along because you accept the authority of the Church. Period.

 They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can't leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that's it! Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest's word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true. 

  The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. "You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble." Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don't tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don't think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts.

   Back to Mary, for a moment. St. Paul wrote many letters to early Christians focusing on doctrines. He was the great missionary. Yet, never once does he mention Mary! And yet, the Church has elevated her to near-goddess status. Sorrym but it brings to mind all the Virgin goddesses of the ancient world who were label Queen of the Universe, etc. 

    Can one be a good Catholic and question all the adulation directed at Mary? Can one be a good Catholic and have doubts about some of the miracles attributed to her - Fatima, Lourdes, etc.?  Can one be a good Catholic and raise questions about transubstantiation? Probably not. So, it appears that I may not belong in the Catholic Church (despite an ancestral uncle who was a distinguished Bishop back in the 19th century!). 

    I guess I go along with the idea that God is too big to be encompassed in any one religion. We live in a magnificent and mysterious creation and it increasingly seems petty to me that any one Church claims to be the only faith with the truth. I find truth in many faiths. Truly ecumenical Catholicism appeals to me. Catholicism which puts down other faiths (as in these threads and often on EWTN and by Fr. Corapi) troubles me greatly.

 

[whatevergirl]

MARY, PAUL AND FR. CORAPI

 Probably you've heard enough from Roy. Obviously most of you (not all) don't pursue independent thinking. You are convinced that the Church is right always and everywhere, so there is little use in additional discussion. You follow along because you accept the authority of the Church. Period.

 They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can't leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that's it! Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest's word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true. 

  The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. "You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble." Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don't tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don't think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts.

   Back to Mary, for a moment. St. Paul wrote many letters to early Christians focusing on doctrines. He was the great missionary. Yet, never once does he mention Mary! And yet, the Church has elevated her to near-goddess status. Sorrym but it brings to mind all the Virgin goddesses of the ancient world who were label Queen of the Universe, etc. 

    Can one be a good Catholic and question all the adulation directed at Mary? Can one be a good Catholic and have doubts about some of the miracles attributed to her - Fatima, Lourdes, etc.?  Can one be a good Catholic and raise questions about transubstantiation? Probably not. So, it appears that I may not belong in the Catholic Church (despite an ancestral uncle who was a distinguished Bishop back in the 19th century!). 

    I guess I go along with the idea that God is too big to be encompassed in any one religion. We live in a magnificent and mysterious creation and it increasingly seems petty to me that any one Church claims to be the only faith with the truth. I find truth in many faiths. Truly ecumenical Catholicism appeals to me. Catholicism which puts down other faiths (as in these threads and often on EWTN and by Fr. Corapi) troubles me greatly.

Where does Catholicism put down other faiths? If anything, it is one of the few faiths that DOESN’T do that?

 

[whatevergirl]

I like Father Corapi–he reminds me of a modern day St Paul.

I would say there are ‘things’ about him that I don’t always particularly like…but no one is perfect…and what I love about him, is he adores the Lord, and it shows. He is very passionate about God, and wants to instill in his audiences, the same fervor. God bless all priests.

 

[johnnydigit]

 Probably you've heard enough from Roy. Obviously most of you (not all) don't pursue independent thinking. You are convinced that the Church is right always and everywhere, so there is little use in additional discussion. You follow along because you accept the authority of the Church. Period.

 They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can't leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that's it! Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest's word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true. 

  The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. "You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble." Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don't tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don't think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts.

so you want a teacher to take you seriously… what teacher of mathematics wants to “discuss” and “prove” algebra to a student who refuses to believe there is such a thing as an imaginary number? the class is sitting there, trying to get ahead while the student confidently argues that in real life, there must be real numbers and it is a waste of time to learn about false imaginary numbers. in order to move ahead you have to have a little bit of faith in one precept in order to understand the next. instead, you remain stagnant at a rudimentary level. is it no wonder all he gets are blank stares and frustration from the teacher and other students?

**this stubborn student is in the wrong class. **lucky for him they do have the appropriate classes at many parishes. i suggest you earnestly inquire about them, otherwise it is useless arguing merely for the sake of arguing, which not only causes the student to stagnate, but causes the entire class to stagnate. an very useful strategy for an enemy…

 

[neat62]

MARY, PAUL AND FR. CORAPI

 Probably you've heard enough from Roy. Obviously most of you (not all) don't pursue independent thinking. You are convinced that the Church is right always and everywhere, so there is little use in additional discussion. You follow along because you accept the authority of the Church. Period.

 They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can't leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that's it! Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest's word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true. 

  The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. "You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble." Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don't tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don't think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts.

   Back to Mary, for a moment. St. Paul wrote many letters to early Christians focusing on doctrines. He was the great missionary. Yet, never once does he mention Mary! And yet, the Church has elevated her to near-goddess status. Sorrym but it brings to mind all the Virgin goddesses of the ancient world who were label Queen of the Universe, etc. 

    Can one be a good Catholic and question all the adulation directed at Mary? Can one be a good Catholic and have doubts about some of the miracles attributed to her - Fatima, Lourdes, etc.?  Can one be a good Catholic and raise questions about transubstantiation? Probably not. So, it appears that I may not belong in the Catholic Church (despite an ancestral uncle who was a distinguished Bishop back in the 19th century!). 

    I guess I go along with the idea that God is too big to be encompassed in any one religion. We live in a magnificent and mysterious creation and it increasingly seems petty to me that any one Church claims to be the only faith with the truth. I find truth in many faiths. Truly ecumenical Catholicism appeals to me. Catholicism which puts down other faiths (as in these threads and often on EWTN and by Fr. Corapi) troubles me greatly.

Perhaps what you really need to do is actually study the faith, cause it sounds like you don’t really understand it at all.

You know it was CHRIST would gave us the Catholic Church when he said to St. Peter…

Matthew 16.13-20: “When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.”

He didn’t say…“upon this rock I shall build a book for anyone to read and interpret as they so choose!”

 

[mom4truth]

johnnydigit:

Great analogy! That was awesome and so on target! Thanks!!

 

[chewchoo]

They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can’t leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that’s it! Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest’s word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true. .

catholicism is the thinking christian’s religion. the reason there are 30M ex-catholics is because of poor catechesis. and years ago, people didn’t just follow the church blindly because they were uneducated. years ago, poorly catechized catholics also left the church. prior to the “reformation” those that left the church just left the church and saint after saint in their respective times made efforts to educate those that didn’t have good catechesis. it’s a never ending struggle in the church.

The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. “You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble.” Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don’t tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don’t think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts…

instead of just being insulted by fr. corapi’s technique, why don’t you use it as a starting point for your own education? he said what? okay, i need to go look that up. as for the “discuss it with me” thing, father is speaking to a crowd, he’s not having coffee with just you. how do you have a open discussion with 500 people?

Back to Mary, for a moment. St. Paul wrote many letters to early Christians focusing on doctrines. He was the great missionary. Yet, never once does he mention Mary! And yet, the Church has elevated her to near-goddess status. Sorrym but it brings to mind all the Virgin goddesses of the ancient world who were label Queen of the Universe, etc. …

mary is mentioned in the gospels and in revelation. doesn’t that count for anything?

Can one be a good Catholic and question all the adulation directed at Mary? Can one be a good Catholic and have doubts about some of the miracles attributed to her - Fatima, Lourdes, etc.? Can one be a good Catholic and raise questions about transubstantiation? Probably not. So, it appears that I may not belong in the Catholic Church (despite an ancestral uncle who was a distinguished Bishop back in the 19th century!). …

how much have you really studied the church? have you ever been on a pilgrimage to any of the holy sights? have you spent any time reading about the saints? if you have doubts, what are you doing to take them definitively in one direction or the other?

I guess I go along with the idea that God is too big to be encompassed in any one religion. We live in a magnificent and mysterious creation and it increasingly seems petty to me that any one Church claims to be the only faith with the truth. I find truth in many faiths. Truly ecumenical Catholicism appeals to me. Catholicism which puts down other faiths (as in these threads and often on EWTN and by Fr. Corapi) troubles me greatly.

the catholic church has had 2000 years to try to grasp God and his creation. most other churches are off-shoots of those 2000 years of history and study. what is petty about “upon this rock i build MY CHURCH”??? how many churches are encompassed in “MY” church?

 

[Jimmy_B]

so you want a teacher to take you seriously… what teacher of mathematics wants to “discuss” and “prove” algebra to a student who refuses to believe there is such a thing as an imaginary number? the class is sitting there, trying to get ahead while the student confidently argues that in real life, there must be real numbers and it is a waste of time to learn about false imaginary numbers. in order to move ahead you have to have a little bit of faith in one precept in order to understand the next. instead, you remain stagnant at a rudimentary level. is it no wonder all he gets are blank stares and frustration from the teacher and other students?

**this stubborn student is in the wrong class. **lucky for him they do have the appropriate classes at many parishes. i suggest you earnestly inquire about them, otherwise it is useless arguing merely for the sake of arguing, which not only causes the student to stagnate, but causes the entire class to stagnate. an very useful strategy for an enemy…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Perhaps what you really need to do is actually study the faith, cause it sounds like you don’t really understand it at all.

You know it was CHRIST would gave us the Catholic Church when he said to St. Peter…

Matthew 16.13-20: “When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.”

He didn’t say…“upon this rock I shall build a book for anyone to read and interpret as they so choose!”

:clapping:

 

[anamchara]

Well, sure…when you take out of context what was stated as you did and you quote only PART of what was posted…sounds bad. But if you actually read the entire post written and so well done by AlegreFe you would easily see that it was not a “sad” post at all and in fact actually yours mirrored much of hers.
AMEN!

I didn’t mean to be uncharitable. I just spoke the TRUTH. We do have “bad infestations” within the Church. And that hurts Jesus. One of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to admonish the sinner. I am just performing my duties as a Catholic. It is because I care about Roy that I said what I said, hence "work of mercy

." I care about all Christians as they are part of the Body of Christ. I want for all Christians to come to the knowledge of the full truth.

Father Corapi would do the same thing for Roy because he cares. That’s just Father for you, and I love it!

Ok, see, this is where we disagree. I am getting so tired of this same old sentiment from many conservative Catholics on here. I think it is ashame that so many on here focus on one aspect of Catholicism…“Admomish the sinner” and “but…but…it’s out of love… it’s the TRUTH”

Rubbish. What about the other works of mercy?
Convert the sinner
Instruct the ignorant
Counsel the doubtful
Comfort the sorrowful
Bear wrongs patiently
Forgive injuries
Pray for the living and the dead

Tell me, where in those works is there room for telling a fellow Catholic to “just leave then” ? or "

if you do not want to accept everything Holy Mother Church teaches then leave if that is what you want. We do not need “bad Catholics” in the Church only to infest her. It is because of “bad Catholics” that people leave.

There’s more to our faith than admonishing.

How are you comforting if you are only admonishing? It’s important we use ALL the Works of Mercy not just the ones that fit our Fr. Corapi fan club. It is not truth to hide behind one aspect of our faith as an excuse to weed out those we personally think are bad for the Church.

If he doesn’t want to “latch on to” Mary what makes you think he’ll want to “latch on to” any of the Saints?

I am not so quick to assume anything about what is in someones heart. I counsel the doubtful,not jump to assumptions. Heavens.

When one “member” commits a sin it affects the “whole body” and that is why it should be a great concern for you that Roy does not infect the whole body.

I hope you understand what my goal is as far as the message I want to send to Roy and to any Catholic who does not believe everything the Church teaches.

Roy is questioning and struggling with his faith. I wouldn’t call him a sinner for heavens sake. Why not just start with questions or suggestions? Your approach sounds more like fundamentalism. Our Catholic faith is much more reasoned and thoughtful than that.

 

[anamchara]

instead of just being insulted by fr. corapi’s technique, why don’t you use it as a starting point for your own education? he said what? okay, i need to go look that up.

 

[anamchara]

Probably you’ve heard enough from Roy. Obviously most of you (not all) don’t pursue independent thinking. You are convinced that the Church is right always and everywhere, so there is little use in additional discussion. You follow along because you accept the authority of the Church. Period.

Well, I’m not one to think the Church is right on everything under the sun. I don’t think we would have had so many great scholars who have spent thousands of years debating certain mattes of faith, if independent thought wasn’t allowed. And before said wovles come in and start nipping at my heels…I’m not referring to our core beliefs. although we can debate and question, at some point there are some teachings which our laid out in our creed that we can’t really disregard.

They say that 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Why do you think this is true? I** believe that millions of these former Catholics smply can’t leave their thinking mechanism at the church door and salute - and that’s it!** Years ago, when people were less educated, that was possible. I recall when the priest’s word was law in my hometown parish. That is no longer true.

Or has my husband says, park your brain in the parking lot kind of Church. When he says that he is referring to the evangelicals and many of the big nonedemonitional Churches. It’s interesting because from what I’ve read many are leaving for those types of Churches. Your right of course. Many were uneducated and I’d go further that since the 1960s we learned to question authority which is a good thing in my opinion but what we have forgotten is that sometimes authority is right. The Church is not like it used to be, thank goodness. I wouldn’t gage the Church from these forums. CAF is pretty slanted one way. Because the Catholic Church is so huge we are bound to have different opinions and run into great divisions under this powerful tent Are you a cradle? I am just curious.

The problem with Fr. Corapi, in my humble opinion, is that he is too much like priests used to be. “You had better listen to me and believe what I tell you or you are going to b e in serious trouble.” Frankly, that sort of attitude turns me off completely. Discuss with me. Prove your point. But don’t tell me what I HAVE to believe. I find this offensive and demeaning. God provided me with a brain and I don’t think I offend him when I use it, and perhaps come up with some questions and even some doubts.

Amen Brother! I agree 100%. For some he seems to work though and has strengthen thier faith which is always a good thing. But I am a bit concerned that he is promoting a kind of harsh tone which can also turn people away as is the case with you. That I don’t think is good. Just my opinion.

Back to Mary, for a moment. St. Paul wrote many letters to early Christians focusing on doctrines. He was the great missionary. Yet, never once does he mention Mary! And yet, the Church has elevated her to near-goddess status. Sorrym but it brings to mind all the Virgin goddesses of the ancient world who were label Queen of the Universe, etc.

Ahh Mary, that is a tough one. I struggle with it at times as well. I don’t think the Church has evevated her this way, I think many cultures have though. And many American Catholics have. I’ve learned to stick with the catechism and what comes directly out of Vatican. Also, important to to mention our Catholic Bishops usccb.org/. There’s room for debate about Mary though, I’ve seen a great deal of written on the subject.

Can one be a good Catholic and question all the adulation directed at Mary? Can one be a good Catholic and have doubts about some of the miracles attributed to her - Fatima, Lourdes, etc.? Can one be a good Catholic and raise questions about transubstantiation? Probably not. So, it appears that I may not belong in the Catholic Church (despite an ancestral uncle who was a distinguished Bishop back in the 19th century!).

Yes! One can have doubt and question for sure! I think you are a good Catholic Roy. Many good Catholics have questioned and debated. One of our Holy Fathers favorite things was to debate and discuss with seminary students matters of faith when he was cardinal. I bet you’d fit right in I bet if you sat down with our holy father and brought these things up, he’d get great joy out of discussion and your sincere desire to dialogue. Just to note. Question and debate has long been a part of Jewish tradition.

I guess I go along with the idea that God is too big to be encompassed in any one religion. We live in a magnificent and mysterious creation and it increasingly seems petty to me that any one Church claims to be the only faith with the truth. I find truth in many faiths. Truly ecumenical Catholicism appeals to me. Catholicism which puts down other faiths (as in these threads and often on EWTN and by Fr. Corapi) troubles me greatly.

Yep, I agree. I am greatly troubled by this as well.
Reading more on the Holy Fathers views on ecumencialism will put your mind as ease Roy. The Catholic Church has come such a long way in this regard. Also, the catechism is fairly clear on salvation outside the Church although many on here would disagree, especially in the traditional forum. Most of what you read on here is fairly hard line. The Church is divided but we can learn from each other if we are just open to it. Have you read anything from Commonweal? You might like it. I know I do. I pull from this site because I think it’s important to not get to comfortable with our own kind. We need to read from all sides.

There is room in this big tent for you Roy! Don’t go away!

 

[johnnydigit]

Some need a more reasoned, gentle, thoughtful dialogue. Frankly, I think it’s how e should be dealing with everyone. Our faith is very clear and it’s focus is not just about sinners and admonishing. After all, how did Christ speak with the tax collectors and sinners? He didn’t walk in the room and start saying “Sinners! Repent” “I’m telling you this out of love”

like being in the wrong class, i don’t think Fr. Corapi’s audience is the “tax collectors and sinners”. the “kindergarteners” at his parish missions are i think, the “pharisees” and “jews”, who are likened to lukewarm Catholics. to quote, “Boston, you’re losing the battle!” this approach does suit the audience. he’s like a general… a stern coach who knows his stuff, and it works successfully without a doubt.

for the appropriate class, “tax collectors and sinners” who need a softer touch can find a wide variety of suitable teachers, writers, priests, scholars, and counselors in the immense Catholic Church. there’s always Mother Angelica… and those kids shows during the day … and even teen and young adult programs. we all got to start somewhere.

 

[Shoshana]

I think this is good advice Chew. It’s one of the reasons I really like reading from different sides of the Church. A few said they didn’t like Fr. Greeley. Well, why not read what he wrote about the beauty of the Catholic faith?

 

[Shoshana]

One question here: If our Faith is warm and fuzzy, then why does it say in the bible that the world will hate you/us because it has hated Jesus first? Love goes beyond feelings of warmth. There are many, many times, there are no fuzzy feelings to hang on to…and this is where we hang on to Jesus who is Truth.

 

[AlegreFe]

To anamchara;
I know the works of mercy, both spiritual and corporal. Roy doesn’t seem to be very “sorrowful” about his “independent thinking” attitude. He stands firm on that. Someone like that does not need comforting. And if he doesn’t “agree” or believe all that Holy Mother Church teaches then he doesn’t belong here. I want him to stay here but to keep quiet about what he disagrees with until he can come to the light of the truth. Your advice to him about praying in front of the tabernacle is good. He needs to be in front of Jesus in Adoration, even better. But since he’s spitting out all these false things, he can’t stay. I’m sorry you don’t agree with me about him not staying, but that’s what needs to happen. If he can’t keep to himself about what he doesn’t believe about the Catholic faith then he needs to do one of two things, either stay but keep quiet or just leave. He can’t be spreading lies about what Catholics should believe and not believe. He is not the Pope or any Bishop united to the Pope.

How long have you been a Catholic? I can’t stand the phrases “conservative Catholic” or “liberal Catholic.” A Catholic, being a true devout staunch Catholic is just a Catholic. And the phrase “liberal Catholic” is just an oxymoron.

I’m glad you’re Catholic. I’m glad the Lord has opened your eyes to the full truth. I’m glad for you that He showed Himself to you in the Catholic Church. I just wish others would come to the realization of the Truth of Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church.

 

[Strummer]

One question here: If our Faith is warm and fuzzy, then why does it say in the bible that the world will hate you/us because it has hated Jesus first?

This is illogical inconsistency. Our faith is internal. The world is external. Our faith guides us in how to respond to the world. However, as the world is ignorant of our faith, our faith does not tell the world how to respond to us. The world, quite simply, is merely the world. I find it self-righteous hubris to try to claim the mantle of victimhood for the “oppression of the world” in a vain, self-congratulatory attempt to prove one’s sanctity. If you let the world turn you hard, you’ve lost a precious part of the peace that passes all understanding.

 

[chewchoo]

This is illogical inconsistency. Our faith is internal. The world is external. Our faith guides us in how to respond to the world. However, as the world is ignorant of our faith, our faith does not tell the world how to respond to us. The world, quite simply, is merely the world. I find it self-righteous hubris to try to claim the mantle of victimhood for the “oppression of the world” in a vain, self-congratulatory attempt to prove one’s sanctity. If you let the world turn you hard, you’ve lost a precious part of the peace that passes all understanding.

“if the world hates you know that it has hated me before you” is in the bible and yet you are saying that it is an illogical inconsistency??? i don’t see victimhood in this. God gave us a set of rules to live by, and Jesus is the example of how to follow those rules.

 

[Strummer]

Roy doesn’t seem to be very “sorrowful” about his “independent thinking” attitude. He stands firm on that. Someone like that does not need comforting.

Really? Can you not sense a heart that is reaching out? He need not directly express “sorrow”, but has opened the door to dialogue (albeit he appears quite skeptical that much will come of it; hmm, I wonder why? ) A good number of people come to the Church following Roy’s path. Your approach would have us turn them all away as modern day tax collectors.

And if he doesn’t “agree” or believe all that Holy Mother Church teaches then he doesn’t belong here. I want him to stay here but to keep quiet about what he disagrees with until he can come to the light of the truth.

Well, don’t you just prove Roy’s point in spades there.

I understand your admonition to not spread falsehoods about the Church but asking questions is not the same thing. I, for one, invite Roy to stay in the Church but I would urge him to seek his answers in more reputable locations than this board, EWTN, and the like. The entirety of the Church goes far beyond that narrow scope (though you wouldn’t think so if you hang around here too much). Nearly all people of faith have suffered a crises of faith at some time or another, from the pews to the saints themselves. I would say it is incumbent upon the rest of us to be charitable toward folks undergoing such struggles.

If he can’t keep to himself about what he doesn’t believe about the Catholic faith then he needs to do one of two things, either stay but keep quiet or just leave.

And how, then, would he learn of the fullness the Church has to offer? No. Rather what he needs to do to expose himself to that fullness, a fullness that reaches far beyond the all-too-confining bounds of this board which is held in disregard by the vast majority of the faithful I’ve encountered–laity and clergy alike.

I can’t stand the phrases “conservative Catholic” or “liberal Catholic.” A Catholic, being a true devout staunch Catholic is just a Catholic. And the phrase “liberal Catholic” is just an oxymoron.

Well then you must neither approve of the terms “Conservative American” nor “Liberal American” for we are all just Americans who hold to American values? Well, yes and no. Both liberals and conservatives are Americans; both liberals and conservatives are Catholics. Religion, like politics, is at heart an intellectual construct for our human minds to deal with the larger reality around us. How we exercise and express our intellectual findings may follow a either a strict, unbending, “conservative” bent or a freer, open-minded, “liberal” track. Or, most common, somewhere in between.
Finally, I find it…odd, that after pontificating on the inappropriateness of labelling Catholics either conservative or liberal but you only find “liberal Catholic” to be an oxymoron.

 

[Strummer]

“if the world hates you know that it has hated me before you” is in the bible and yet you are saying that it is an illogical inconsistency??? i don’t see victimhood in this. God gave us a set of rules to live by, and Jesus is the example of how to follow those rules.

You are missing my point but that may well be because I did not make it well enough. Shoshona tried to make the point that our faith cannot be “warm and fuzzy” because the world will hate us for it. My point is that our faith is our internal gift and the world resides outside of that and should not alter that faith in our hearts.

The victimhood part you quote refers to those who actively seek out “examples” wherein they’ve been “persecuted” so that they may justify themselves as “truly faithful”.