Do you think anything will happen to Fr Jenkins or Notre Dame?

[bkovacs]

What message does it send to Catholic laity that these sorts of things continue to go at so-called Catholics institutions without there seeming to any consequence whatsoever?

A hugely divided Catholic Church!. Priest (brother) against Priest (brother)!. Look at the divide in regards to Summorum Pontificum.

 

[irishpatrick]

A hugely divided Catholic Church!. Priest (brother) against Priest (brother)!. Look at the divide in regards to Summorum Pontificum.

Indeed and Jesus did say He did not come to bring peace…

 

[Cathhsmom]

Those of you who are advocating disassocation of ND with the Catholic Church, do you also advocate taking away Catholic status from those parishes where the pastor might bring in speakers who do not always agree with Catholic teaching, do you advocate revoking the charter of Catholic hospitals who may bring in a doctor for a consult who disagrees with Catholic teaching even though the consult does not relate to that?

This is an issue with the President of the University and the Board yet many here are advocating punishing the entire University for the actions of a few. The University of Notre Dame is VERY Catholic, one only has to spend a few hours there is see how Catholic it is. Those who advocate taking away the name or association with the Catholic Church are advocating a great disservice to the thousands of students, faculty and associated staff of the University. As was stated at the commencement by the Validictorian, Notre Dame is a family (and until you are a member of that family you have no idea what that actually means) and as with all familes there are those we don’t always agree with and those who break our hearts sometimes, but they are still our family and we do not disown them. To stip the Catholic identity of the University because of the actions of its President and Board would be doing just that.

So what that they are a “FAMILY”? I have a family, too. It is a very disfunctional family. That doesn’t mean that I can’t distance myself from them. I WILL NOT send or pay for my children to attend ND or anyother CINO (Catholic In Name Only) college or university. That is all that I have control over at this point in time. I am raising MY children to know what is right and what is wrong. That is what I am doing. I would rather send my children to a secular university where they know that they will be under attack for their faith than to one that should strengthen it and instead lead them into co-operating with evil!

 

[AnotherChance]

What message does it send to Catholic laity that these sorts of things continue to go at so-called Catholics institutions without there seeming to any consequence whatsoever?

What I saw on Fox News yesterday (the play by play of the Infanticide King at ND) just literally sickened me. My husband and children are Catholic, and I am dragging my feet about joining even though I attend Mass every week. My feet are dragging a little mroe after yesterday’s display.

I know that the Catholic Church itself (although apparently not a majority of its’ members) is one of the few institutions that holds to God’s truth in all areas. I was just shocked that such a large number of Catholics as those at the ceremony were so enthusiastic about Obama, who has absolutely no respect for the dignity of human life, doesn’t attend church, and has declared that the U.S. is no longer a Christian nation.

When the applause, smiling, laughing, and brown-nosing went on for several minutes, I could feel my migraine emerging. It seemed to me like the audience wanted to prove to Obama that they were “cool” Catholics and they weren’t like those pesky Catholics who actually think human life has intrinsic worth.

I know that it is possible to limit oneself to associate largely with Catholics who adhere to the Church’s teachings. I know that I can tell my daughter who wants to attend Notre Dame in three years that this is not one of her options. I just am so dismayed that the numbers are so large of Catholics who seem to just completely disregard the Church’s teachings. There is no way that I could have sat there peacefully while BHO talked with a forked silver tongue about reducing abortions. I told my daughter as we watched it that if she had been graduating, I would have been one of the people who were hauled out. But how could so many thousands listen calmly to him? I truly don’t understand it.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by Joannm
Those who advocate taking away the name or association with the Catholic Church are advocating a great disservice to the thousands of students, faculty and associated staff of the University. As was stated at the commencement by the Validictorian, Notre Dame is a family (and until you are a member of that family you have no idea what that actually means) and as with all familes there are those we don’t always agree with and those who break our hearts sometimes, but they are still our family and we do not disown them. To stip the Catholic identity of the University because of the actions of its President and Board would be doing just that.

Why do Catholic schools always say we are one big family and the students who attend them are a part of feeling that they are a part of that ND family. I hate it when Catholic high schools do this, as if the one who can’t afford these schools aren’t a part of the Catholic family. School is not family. Family is your parents, siblings, etc. School is only an extension that is there to help provide moral values so that your own family stays strong. When a Catholic school no longer promotes family values as ND no longer does , then it is no longer a Catholic institute.

As far as Terry Randall or Alan Keyes being there and being arrested, Thank you, Thank you for being there, where I could not get to and speaking for me.

Again Thanks to anyone who attended this protest.

 

[AnotherChance]

Why do Catholic schools always say we are one big family and the students who attend them are a part of feeling that they are a part of that ND family. I hate it when Catholic high schools do this, as if the one who can’t afford these schools aren’t a part of the Catholic family. School is not family. Family is your parents, siblings, etc. School is only an extension that is there to help provide moral values so that your own family stays strong. When a Catholic school no longer promotes family values as ND no longer does , then it is no longer a Catholic institute.

As far as Terry Randall or Alan Keyes being there and being arrested, Thank you, Thank you for being there, where I could not get to and speaking for me.

Again Thanks to anyone who attended this protest.

I would send flowers to the man who got hauled off by the police during Mr. Infanticide’s speech, if I knew who he was.

Agree with you about family. Family is family. School is not family. The valedictorian supported Mr. Pro-death’s attendance.

 

[Erich]

All other Catholic universities and colleges are run by boards of trustees or by religious congregations, not by the Church.

And that as it turns out is probably a large part of the reason why the invitation was extended in the first place, and why it was not rescinded even in the face of public outcry.

From Notre Dame, Trustees and Father Jenkins’ Final Word:

A great deal of criticism has been leveled at Notre Dame President, Rev John I. Jenkins, for his choice to honor President Obama at this year’s commencement. But Fr. Jenkins, like all university presidents, must consider the will of the school’s governing board. The Notre Dame Board of Trustees is a powerful organization, comprised of top international business owners, chairs of rich endowments, academic leaders, judges, attorneys, faculty, and prominent clergy. These individuals are typically very wealthy, well-connected and highly accomplished; many with broad interests outside the university. A closer look at the board and its affiliations might shed light on just how Notre Dame came to this decision.

Many of the influential alumni on the Notre Dame board are from the nearby Chicago area, and are part of the same Chicago power structure that President Obama ascended. …

 

[Through_Him]

here is a cite for the university;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Notre_Dame
So who are the endowments anyways?

It sure seems like a mess I watched the CNN broadcast and our news showed part of the protests even caught a glimpse of Father Pavone.
The bishops seem to be challenged to be put to the test anways ours is. Pope Benedict XVI seems to be cleaning house. IMO I think the Fr Jenkins will be ousted.

 

[Catholic20064]

here is a cite for the university;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Notre_Dame
So who are the endowments anyways?

It sure seems like a mess I watched the CNN broadcast and our news showed part of the protests even caught a glimpse of Father Pavone.
The bishops seem to be challenged to be put to the test anways ours is. Pope Benedict XVI seems to be cleaning house. IMO I think the Fr Jenkins will be ousted.

So what happens if the Pope tries to oust Jenkins and Jenkins doesn’t go? I don’t think the Board of Trustees at Notre Dame would stand for the Pope getting involved with this. I suppose the Pope can laicize him, but I don’t think the Board of Trustees would throw him out. Too many Chicago Democrats on the Board of Trustees.

 

[Joannm]

To put down the entire university because of the actions of its board is, again I repeat, I disservice to the students and faculty for whom ND is a family…and if you ever spent time on campus as a student you would understand what that means. The family values of the community are strong and their Catholicity is very evident on campus. Those who criticize the entire university are basing their opinions on on the few incidents that have made the news. You would be surprized as to the number of very conservative Catholics that both study and teach there. Someone asked about statistics. I believe 80% of the students are Catholic and a majority of them attend Mass weekly or more frequently both in the basilica and in the resident halls.

 

[Catholic20064]

To put down the entire university because of the actions of its board is, again I repeat, I disservice to the students and faculty for whom ND is a family…and if you ever spent time on campus as a student you would understand what that means. The family values of the community are strong and their Catholicity is very evident on campus. Those who criticize the entire university are basing their opinions on on the few incidents that have made the news. You would be surprized as to the number of very conservative Catholics that both study and teach there. Someone asked about statistics. I believe 80% of the students are Catholic and a majority of them attend Mass weekly or more frequently both in the basilica and in the resident halls.

I work here and I would agree. Unfortunately, the majority of students seemed to have been educated to become pro-choice Obama supporters. That was evident from the reports I’ve seen of the graduation exercises. I would not be surprised at the number of very conservative Catholics here. I would say based on the alternative graduation services I attended yesterday that there are about 50 conservative Catholic faculty and maybe 400 conservative Catholic students. I base that as well on the number of people I see attending daily mass. The statistics I’ve seen show that 70 percent of the faculty and about 60 percent of the students voted for Obama. Even the weekly attending mass goers in the St. Joseph County area are predominantly pro-choice in their voting habits. The Democratic Congressman claims to be pro-life (he’s Catholic), but he supports the pro-choice Democrats in Congress. The evangelical Protestant Republican who he beat in the Congressional race supported pro-life leaders in Congress. The Catholics around here excuse themselves by saying they voted for the pro-life Congressman while at the same time electing Obama. It’s a liberal bastion.

 

[tm30]

To put down the entire university because of the actions of its board is, again I repeat, I disservice to the students and faculty for whom ND is a family…and if you ever spent time on campus as a student you would understand what that means. The family values of the community are strong and their Catholicity is very evident on campus. Those who criticize the entire university are basing their opinions on on the few incidents that have made the news. You would be surprized as to the number of very conservative Catholics that both study and teach there. Someone asked about statistics. I believe 80% of the students are Catholic and a majority of them attend Mass weekly or more frequently both in the basilica and in the resident halls.

If there’s such a majority of practicing Catholic students at ND, why aren’t they out there demonstrating against the Trustees and administration, demanding their removal?

 

[tm30]

So what happens if the Pope tries to oust Jenkins and Jenkins doesn’t go? I don’t think the Board of Trustees at Notre Dame would stand for the Pope getting involved with this. I suppose the Pope can laicize him, but I don’t think the Board of Trustees would throw him out. Too many Chicago Democrats on the Board of Trustees.

I would expect if there were pressure from the Vatican, it would be directed at the order of the Holy Cross, who would, in turn, take action against Jenkins.

Yesterday was positively nauseating. I suspect the promoters of this scandal will be treated to repeat showings in the company of our Lord at their particular judgment.

Devastating and shameful.

 

[tm30]

Those of you who are advocating disassocation of ND with the Catholic Church, do you also advocate taking away Catholic status from those parishes where the pastor might bring in speakers who do not always agree with Catholic teaching, do you advocate revoking the charter of Catholic hospitals who may bring in a doctor for a consult who disagrees with Catholic teaching even though the consult does not relate to that?

This is an issue with the President of the University and the Board yet many here are advocating punishing the entire University for the actions of a few. The University of Notre Dame is VERY Catholic, one only has to spend a few hours there is see how Catholic it is. Those who advocate taking away the name or association with the Catholic Church are advocating a great disservice to the thousands of students, faculty and associated staff of the University. As was stated at the commencement by the Validictorian, Notre Dame is a family (and until you are a member of that family you have no idea what that actually means) and as with all familes there are those we don’t always agree with and those who break our hearts sometimes, but they are still our family and we do not disown them. To stip the Catholic identity of the University because of the actions of its President and Board would be doing just that.

The great disservice is that all of these thousands of students and faculty allowed their university to get steamrolled and buried by a minority who are in power. Outside of the groups that were vocally active, where was the rest of the student body that supposedly opposed this?

Seriously, either the Catholic identity of Notre Dame was worth fighting for or it wasn’t. It appeared to me that most of the Notre Dame population simply stood aside. One could only assume their silence was consent to the consequences.

 

[tm30]

Oh, don’t be confused, Bookgirl. My contention is Terry and Keyes are in there for themselves first. If there were no news coverage, neither would be there.

BTW, I graduated from the University of Illinois. There are signs on all public buildings that the University controls what happens on its campus; you have to have business with the University as a student, faculty/staff member or an alumnus. The rules of the University of Notre Dame are not all that unusual.

My point here, is if Dr. Keyes were protesting at Cornell or Harvard, that’s fine. Notre Dame is not his university, nor is it Randall Terry’s. I agree with the students’ and graduates’ rights to express their dismay however they would without breaking the law. Outsiders don’t belong there. Dr. Keyes got arrested on purpose. Fine. Render to Caesar? Guess not. And what did he porve? His presence, and that of the other outsiders, obscured the protest by some graduates and their families.

This just confirmed in more people’s minds that some prolifers are extremists. No good was done.

John

Keyes and Terry are Catholics. They have every right to protest at a Catholic university, private or otherwise. If Notre Dame wants to wear the Catholic label, it comes with the responsibility of conveying Catholic truths. By the power of that label, their actions are a mark for the whole Church - good or evil. In this case, it was evil, and the Church - whose good name the university wishes to scandalize - has the right to fight back.

What it confirmed for me is that most Catholics would take the thirty pieces of silver, given the chance.

 

[tm30]

Scandal? Don’t think so. That would mean thoughts like this—

“Wow, Notre Dame invited the President to speal at commencement, that must mean that the Catholic Church thinks abortion is okay now.”

C’mon, people simply don’t think like that. What the invitation to the President means is that Notre Dame invites presidents to speak at their commencements. They’ve done it five or six times before. That’s all. Many, many people outside of the university community saw this as a way to further their cause. Well, it’s over. What will happen to Father Jenkins? Nothing.

John

i.e., “Quo veritas?”

 

[Catholic20064]

The great disservice is that all of these thousands of students and faculty allowed their university to get steamrolled and buried by a minority who are in power. Outside of the groups that were vocally active, where was the rest of the student body that supposedly opposed this?

Seriously, either the Catholic identity of Notre Dame was worth fighting for or it wasn’t. It appeared to me that most of the Notre Dame population simply stood aside. One could only assume their silence was consent to the consequences.

I don’t know why it is hard for me to get this across. Only a very small minority of us opposed bringing Obama here. The Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly with only two dissenters to congratulate Jenkins for bringing Obama here. The students were overwhelmingly for bringing Obama here. While there are conservatives here, they are a very small minority on campus. I would have to say that most of the students here care about football, beer and sex and not necessarily in that order.

 

[mullenpm]

I am completely disgusted with Notre Dame as a University and with the Notre Dame Class of 2009.

What a bunch of false “Catholics.” For months the students were in an uproar because of the invitation to Obama and the issuing of an honorary degree. All kinds of protests were suggested.

What did they do at the Commencement – they cheered and laughed and screamed and welcomed him as though it were God himself.:extrahappy::tiphat:

I am sick to death of so-called Catholic schools and I think that the name “Notre Dame” should be removed from that school in Indiana.What an insult to Our Blessed Mother.:knight1:

:

 

[tm30]

I don’t know why it is hard for me to get this across. Only a very small minority of us opposed bringing Obama here. The Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly with only two dissenters to congratulate Jenkins for bringing Obama here. The students were overwhelmingly for bringing Obama here. While there are conservatives here, they are a very small minority on campus. I would have to say that most of the students here care about football, beer and sex and not necessarily in that order.

I understand and agree. I’m responding to people who claim that it would be unfair to punish all the good Catholics at Notre Dame by removing the Catholic charter or what-have-you. I’m saying that’s a strawman argument, because either people put their faith above the university or they don’t. And it appeared to me that most of Notre Dame put the university above the faith. Good Catholics at Notre Dame have already been harmed and scandalized by this. That’s the real punishment, and it was inflicted by their own administration. Removing the Catholic charter isn’t punishment to the faithful - it removes the convenient crutch of those who want to benefit from the aura of our faith without actually practicing it, proclaiming it, or defending it.

 

[Catholic20064]

I understand and agree. I’m responding to people who claim that it would be unfair to punish all the good Catholics at Notre Dame by removing the Catholic charter or what-have-you. I’m saying that’s a strawman argument, because either people put their faith above the university or they don’t. And it appeared to me that most of Notre Dame put the university above the faith. Good Catholics at Notre Dame have already been harmed and scandalized by this. That’s the real punishment, and it was inflicted by their own administration. Removing the Catholic charter isn’t punishment to the faithful - it removes the convenient crutch of those who want to benefit from the aura of our faith without actually practicing it, proclaiming it, or defending it.

I would say that by inviting Obama here they removed the Catholic charter here in the eyes of public opinion. It’s too bad the real Catholic schools don’t have programs in engineering, etc. Limiting themselves to the liberal arts limits their appeal. Only 25 students at Notre Dame went to the Nobama graduation alternative. It was wonderful, but I was disappointed that out of around 900 graduates only 25 showed up for the alternative. That says more than anything about the Notre Dame student body.