Do you think RCIA needs reform?

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janw said:
I don’t know exactly what you may be going through, but it seemed when I finally decided to act on what I had come to believe and go to the catholic church, the problems in my personal life got much worse. I being a former protestant and not understanding alot about the catholic church felt the people and priest were unwelcoming and unfriendly even though I am not a extremely social person myself, I was accustom to many in the church always after service saying they were glad you visited and hoped you would return. But after spending about 5 years studying catholic beliefs, I knew this was where God wanted me to go. I continued to go and have come to understand and appreciate the customs of the church. I feel the more I was determined the more mental struggles I had to go through and got very discouraged at times. Others may disagree but after 20 years of study of the Bible and daily prayer and a close relationship with the lord, I believe it was all Spiritual warfare. I believe very much that God wanted me to go in this direction and I believe many times when we try to do what God wants, we get trouble from the evil ones. Pray, Pray and Pray. My heart goes out to you and remember who has all the power to help us in all situations if we love him and are trying to do his will. May God bless you in your trials.
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Thank You. I agree it probably is a lot of spiritual warfare. The more I try to get closer to God, the harder it is. I guess thats normal, but it can be frustrating too. Just gotta keep pushing along. I’ll get there…conversion is a lifelong process. This is just one part of my journey. If I can remember that, might help me keep things in perspective. I know by the time I am confirmed, if I am confirmed ASAP…it will be Easter 2009 and I will have been studying the faith for 3 years. The longer it takes though, the more beneficial I see waiting can be. Believing everything the Church teaches isn’t enough. We must learn to live our faith and embrace it into every aspect of our lives. Thats one thing I’ve realized recently.
 
homewardbound said:
Thank You. I agree it probably is a lot of spiritual warfare. The more I try to get closer to God, the harder it is. I guess thats normal, but it can be frustrating too. Just gotta keep pushing along. I’ll get there…conversion is a lifelong process. This is just one part of my journey. If I can remember that, might help me keep things in perspective. I know by the time I am confirmed, if I am confirmed ASAP…it will be Easter 2009 and I will have been studying the faith for 3 years. The longer it takes though, the more beneficial I see waiting can be. Believing everything the Church teaches isn’t enough. We must learn to live our faith and embrace it into every aspect of our lives. Thats one thing I’ve realized recently.
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Yes, it’s really important for you to be living the Catholic life on a daily basis, at home, in the world, and at Church, when you get Confirmed.

There are so many things to learn - and most of them won’t be explicitly taught in RCIA - they are just things that you pick up on from being in the community of the Church and participating actively in its activities. RCIA covers just the bare “bread and water” minimum that you need to be a Catholic - if you want the meat and vegetables, and the cake and cookies, too, then you need to keep your eyes and ears open, and participate as much as you can - make lots of friends, and go to everything that you possibly can - accept every invitation with a cheerful “Yes!” even if you’re not sure you can make it, and then do your best to make it to everything.
 
jmcrae said:
So, what about a priest who has to say five Masses on a Sunday, and there are Catechumens at only one of the Masses. Does he have to prepare two separate homilies?
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Yes. But not exactly rocket science; if he has been a priest for very long this should not be the most arduous task he will ahve all year.
jmcrae said:
And then what happens to a family where one member goes to the Mass where there are Catechumens, and the rest of the family members go to a different Mass? How do they complete their Lenten devotion at home, with two completely unrelated homilies to work from?
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Gee, they will have two sets of reading to talk about. Life is tough…

None of this is a major problem; and depending on whether one sees the glass half empty or half full, it is an opportunity.
 
otjm said:
Yes. But not exactly rocket science; if he has been a priest for very long this should not be the most arduous task he will have all year.
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“Arduous,” no. He sees it as a counterproductive and unnecessary waste of time - an hour spent writing a special homily for five people who aren’t even Catholic yet, that he could spend hearing Confessions, or counselling a drug addict, or organizing a food drive for the poor. Or just about anything, really. 🤷
 
Yes, I wish my RCIA program were different.

Really, all it turned out to be was a Bible study. Which isn’t bad at all, but I would have much rather one session be about Purgatory, its background and Biblical references; another session to be about the Mass, its different parts and why it’s structured like it is; stuff like that. I would have taken much more away from the RCIA process if big things like the Blessed Mother, Confession, Indulgences, Penance, etc. were each examined in their own right. As it was, I had to find out about these things on my own via Yahoo and Google.

The one thing, though, that I’ll remember for life is my RCIA classmates. It was really big (well, big to me–there were 15 of us, double that when including our sponsors), and we all developed close connections with each other. Most of us were young marrieds, and four of us couples all got pregnant within a few months of each other! When we all traveled to the New Ulm diocese for some of the different Rites, many of us would cram into another classmate’s Yukon, and yap away during the trip. And one time coming home, we all decided to stop at this pizza place and had a blast. Kinda like the times in college when we’d all pack into someone’s car, go someplace for fun and trip to a bar afterwards. :o

So those memories rock! But yes, I wish the bulk of the actual RCIA classes focused on big Catholic themes rather than just the Scripture for that Sunday.
 
The New Catholic Answer Bible RCIA Program
  • Personally I think this is very good; since it gets Catecumens dive into Scripture/Apologetics right from the start.
thencab.com/rciaprogram.html

amazon.com/New-Catholic-A…16508&sr= 1-2

Isn’t this already a “Reform” (modification) to existing RCIA program for Parishes that opt for it?.

Look at the evangelical churches.
All they do is “Alter call” to repent and to accept Christ and move on to Bible study…and in many cases…led to be “Buffet Christians”.The beauth is that there are many Christians ever ready to bring people to be “saved”!

The Roman Catholic Church has the advantage of the “Catechism” (CCC); which I think should be incorporated into the program in greater depth together with the Bible… hence lengthening the “study period” for RCIA.

We Catholics want a “Demanding Lot” but how many are ready to be "sponsors"and be more involved in “Ministry”? We have “No time” and leave it more often than not to “Retirees”.
-That’s what Roman Catholics (RC) are sometimes called - Retired Catholics!

The other difficulty is that Over the Centuries the RCC is very “Devotional Church” and each group is always welcoming the new community to join them… when in actual fact… we should focus on Christ and the Scriptures as is advocated in “Small Christian Communities”
 
“Buffet Christians”~~never heard that term before; you mean, Christians who can’t get enough?
 
I am a lousy historian, but about two summers ago (I think) there were either one or two issues of Our Sunday Visitor focusing on issues about RCIA.

Not surprisingly, there were two camps (although like most issues, they were not as clearly defined as some would have it); one camp wanted to continue on with a Lectionary approach to RCIA; the other camp seemed to want to do away with it (as best I recall) and go to a catechism style of training.

The essence of the article was that it seemed obvious, from those joining and then not continuing to attend, and from interviews, that while the Lectionary model covered the major aspects of the faith in a year-around program, not everyone was using a year-around program, and the model most likely needed more catechesis.

It appeared from the article that the Church was doing a review and the direction of the review was towards more catechesis, but not a dismissal of the process of RCIA.
 
I have never been part of the RCIA, but know both new Catholics and RCIA leaders who have difficulties with certain areas. Like some of these posts, I suspect a part of the problem is lack of consistent application of the rites and formation process. I suspect the rites are more uniformly applied. It’s usually the formation process I hear the most complaints about – in one parish the first week topic was the annulment process. I tended to agree with those who whined to me “That’s an important fact to get across first to inquirers!!!”

Because of the complaints I’ve heard, I think an important point to add to any formation process would be the requirement to read – and appropriately facilitated discussion classes after reading. A key point of formation of new Catholics is, I believe, the concept that we are to “grow in holiness”. The formation process should set up new Catholics for this on-going growth. “You are taking a step in learning the Catholic faith; there are many more steps to be taken – and it is a wonderful journey!” This will not only make knowledgeable Catholics, but better ones.
 
Thomassal said:
I have never been part of the RCIA, but know both new Catholics and RCIA leaders who have difficulties with certain areas. Like some of these posts, I suspect a part of the problem is lack of consistent application of the rites and formation process. I suspect the rites are more uniformly applied. It’s usually the formation process I hear the most complaints about – in one parish the first week topic was the annulment process. I tended to agree with those who whined to me “That’s an important fact to get across first to inquirers!!!”
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While I sympathize with the poor Inquirers, I also “get” why that happened. Yes, it was inappropriate - but sometimes you just get so fed up and tired of finding out on the morning of the Easter Vigil that half your RCIA class is either living-together or living in a second (or third, fourth, etc.) “marriage,” and then dealing with having to tell all those people that they cannot become Catholics, with all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that that entails. :mad:

In our Diocese, nobody is allowed to “graduate” from Inquiry without completing an interview that goes into detail about their marital situation - and they can’t proceed to the Period of Catechesis without getting any marital issues taken care of. Living-togethers have to be either separated or married, and the second-marriages either have to be dissolved or else they have to have their Declaration of Nullity and their blessing of marriage in the Catholic Church, before they can receive their Rite of Welcome or Rite of Acceptance.
Because of the complaints I’ve heard, I think an important point to add to any formation process would be the requirement to read – and appropriately facilitated discussion classes after reading. A key point of formation of new Catholics is, I believe, the concept that we are to “grow in holiness”. The formation process should set up new Catholics for this on-going growth. “You are taking a step in learning the Catholic faith; there are many more steps to be taken – and it is a wonderful journey!” This will not only make knowledgeable Catholics, but better ones.
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I agree completely. 👍
 
Thomassal said:
I have never been part of the RCIA, but know both new Catholics and RCIA leaders who have difficulties with certain areas. Like some of these posts, I suspect a part of the problem is lack of consistent application of the rites and formation process. I suspect the rites are more uniformly applied. It’s usually the formation process I hear the most complaints about – in one parish the first week topic was the annulment process. I tended to agree with those who whined to me “That’s an important fact to get across first to inquirers!!!”

Because of the complaints I’ve heard, I think an important point to add to any formation process would be the requirement to read – and appropriately facilitated discussion classes after reading. A key point of formation of new Catholics is, I believe, the concept that we are to “grow in holiness”. The formation process should set up new Catholics for this on-going growth. “You are taking a step in learning the Catholic faith; there are many more steps to be taken – and it is a wonderful journey!” This will not only make knowledgeable Catholics, but better ones.
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The reason that the issue of annulments comes up is beacuse more often than not, there is at least one if not more non-Catholics joining, who have a prior marriage issue to be dealt with.

While their marriage issue may be a private matter, the issue of annulments and how the Church deals with them is not; it is something that all need to learn. While I might suggest that the issue wait until they start covering sacraments, it is certainly a legitimate issue to cover.
 
otjm said:
The reason that the issue of annulments comes up is beacuse more often than not, there is at least one if not more non-Catholics joining, who have a prior marriage issue to be dealt with.

While their marriage issue may be a private matter, the issue of annulments and how the Church deals with them is not; it is something that all need to learn. While I might suggest that the issue wait until they start covering sacraments, it is certainly a legitimate issue to cover.
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can you join the church if you have been married, divorced and remarried (outside of the church) without first getting an annulment?
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
can you join the church if you have been married, divorced and remarried (outside of the church) without first getting an annulment?
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If the person is not in a relationship and has no plans to get married, he or she can become Catholic, and they can leave the Tribunal process for later, but if they are living with someone or if they have attempted a second marriage, then they have to receive not only a Declaration of Nullity for each of the previous marriages for both members of the attempted second marriage, but ALSO, they have to become at least validly married, before they can receive any Sacraments in the Catholic Church, including First Reconciliation or Baptism.

A lot of people just focus on the Declaration(s) of Nullity, and totally forget about the fact that they still have to get validly married once all the paperwork comes through, and permission is given to remarry.
 
jmcrae said:
If the person is not in a relationship and has no plans to get married, he or she can become Catholic, and they can leave the Tribunal process for later, but if they are living with someone or if they have attempted a second marriage, then they have to receive not only a Declaration of Nullity for each of the previous marriages for both members of the attempted second marriage, but ALSO, they have to become at least validly married, before they can receive any Sacraments in the Catholic Church, including First Reconciliation or Baptism.

A lot of people just focus on the Declaration(s) of Nullity, and totally forget about the fact that they still have to get validly married once all the paperwork comes through, and permission is given to remarry.
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thank you for confirming what I knew 👍
another poster had me confused when they suggested leaving the discussion of Annulments till later in the RCIA process.
 
jmcrae said:
If the person is not in a relationship and has no plans to get married, he or she can become Catholic, and they can leave the Tribunal process for later, but if they are living with someone or if they have attempted a second marriage, then they have to receive not only a Declaration of Nullity for each of the previous marriages for both members of the attempted second marriage, but ALSO, they have to become at least validly married, before they can receive any Sacraments in the Catholic Church, including First Reconciliation or Baptism.

A lot of people just focus on the Declaration(s) of Nullity, and totally forget about the fact that they still have to get validly married once all the paperwork comes through, and permission is given to remarry.
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I am not sure that a person who was validly baptized in another church would be prohibited from the sacrament of Reconcilliation prior to receiving an annulment from a previous marriage; but they would have to live as brother and sister until having the prior marriage resolved, and would not be able to receive Commuinion until it was resolved.

As to actually being received into the Church prior to the annulment, I cannot say, but that is an issue for a Canon lawyer.

Normally, one priorly baptized in another church goes to Reconcilliation before Holy Saturday night, when they make their profession of faith.
 
otjm said:
I am not sure that a person who was validly baptized in another church would be prohibited from the sacrament of Reconcilliation prior to receiving an annulment from a previous marriage; but they would have to live as brother and sister until having the prior marriage resolved, and would not be able to receive Commuinion until it was resolved.
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Catholics can’t go to Confession until they receive their Declarations of Nullity; why would it be different for converts? :confused:
As to actually being received into the Church prior to the annulment, I cannot say, but that is an issue for a Canon lawyer.
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First Reconciliation is their first action as a new Catholic - once they have done that, there is no turning back; they are now Catholic.
Normally, one priorly baptized in another church goes to Reconcilliation before Holy Saturday night, when they make their profession of faith.
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Yes, that’s true. Which reminds me of another reform I’d like to see. I think the Candidates should make their Profession of Faith before they go to First Reconciliation, instead of afterwards. (The priest who brought me into the Church had us recite the Apostles’ Creed before he would hear our First Confessions - at the time, I didn’t understand why, but as soon as I read what you wrote, it suddenly “clicked” that that was the reason why.)
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
can you join the church if you have been married, divorced and remarried (outside of the church) without first getting an annulment?
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That is a good question and I suspect you received an incomplete answer. I am not an expert on the subject and such a question should be asked to a canon lawyer however you need to consider there is a matrix of possibilities which include combinations of Catholics, Baptized non Catholics, and non Christians. It would be interesting how the lawyer would advise concerning the Pauline Privilege, fornication, and valid marriages. It is hard to imagine all these cases having the same outcome.
 
jmcrae said:
If the person is not in a relationship and has no plans to get married, he or she can become Catholic, and they can leave the Tribunal process for later, but if they are living with someone or if they have attempted a second marriage, then they have to receive not only a Declaration of Nullity for each of the previous marriages for both members of the attempted second marriage, but ALSO, they have to become at least validly married, before they can receive any Sacraments in the Catholic Church, including First Reconciliation or Baptism.

A lot of people just focus on the Declaration(s) of Nullity, and totally forget about the fact that they still have to get validly married once all the paperwork comes through, and permission is given to remarry.
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Texas_Roofer said:
That is a good question and I suspect you received an incomplete answer. I am not an expert on the subject and such a question should be asked to a canon lawyer however you need to consider there is a matrix of possibilities which include combinations of Catholics, Baptized non Catholics, and non Christians. It would be interesting how the lawyer would advise concerning the Pauline Privilege, fornication, and valid marriages. It is hard to imagine all these cases having the same outcome.
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Actually I got the same answer from my priest that jmcrae gave.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
That is a good question and I suspect you received an incomplete answer. I am not an expert on the subject and such a question should be asked to a canon lawyer however you need to consider there is a matrix of possibilities which include combinations of Catholics, Baptized non Catholics, and non Christians. It would be interesting how the lawyer would advise concerning the Pauline Privilege, fornication, and valid marriages. It is hard to imagine all these cases having the same outcome.
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The “same outcome” is that they’re clear of any impediments that they had, to come to the Sacraments.

There is no way that anyone who still has their impediment, can come to the Sacraments, and it really doesn’t matter what the impediment is, or what the remedy for it is - if the remedy has not yet been applied, then they can’t come to the Sacraments (including Confession or Baptism), which means that they cannot yet become Catholic.
 
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