Do you think RCIA needs reform?

[marci]

My conversion is between me and God, no one else.

I am all for community, but I guess I’m sick of hearing this same old excuse anytime I inquire about an RCIA program. Somehow I am wrong in wanting to convert since I would rather focus on being right with God and giving myself to Him by becoming a member of His Church rather than get involved in a ton of church activities before even converting. Thats how I’m constantly made to feel.

I have a lot of private struggles right now, plus a lot of social anxiety, so I’m not going to be comfortable jumping right into a bunch of social groups and focus only on “community” of church when right now what I need is the “worship” aspect of church. What happened to worship? Yes, its important for converts to realize the importance of community and being involved…but during conversion we are going through a lot of turmoil and hardship and I think too much the community aspect overshadows everything else. We’re trying to learn and grow spiritually and all that keeps getting shoved down our throats is “community! community! hold hands! greet your neighbor!”

Sorry, right now I’m trying to figure out where God wants me and trying to make a life changing decision. I will gladly be involved in community later, but right now my most important concern is following God and growing spiritually. I know community is important and wish my fellow parishioners well and want to make friends and such…but I can focus more on that later after I am actually Catholic and able to feel whole and stable spiritually.

This is why I am fighting an uphill battle with my husband. I don’t push him toward conversion. I let him come to me with questions and at times I feel like he is open to the church, but it will take a miracle of Biblical proportions to get him up in front of the congregation and be in the spotlight. He is very private and shy in front of large crowds. He almost passed out during our wedding, he was more terrified of “all of the people” than he was of the vows.

RCIA programs need to consider that not everyone has the personality to be comfortable in front of a crowd.

As far as the community is concerned, Even if the priest is the only person at mass, a mass still takes place. Even if only the priest and the parents and God parents are presant at a Baptism, a baby is still being Baptized. Even if the only persons at a wedding are the couple, the priest and the witness, the couple are still married. I could go on, but you get the picture.

 

[lak611]

This is why I am fighting an uphill battle with my husband. I don’t push him toward conversion. I let him come to me with questions and at times I feel like he is open to the church, but it will take a miracle of Biblical proportions to get him up in front of the congregation and be in the spotlight. He is very private and shy in front of large crowds. He almost passed out during our wedding, he was more terrified of “all of the people” than he was of the vows.

RCIA programs need to consider that not everyone has the personality to be comfortable in front of a crowd.

As far as the community is concerned, Even if the priest is the only person at mass, a mass still takes place. Even if only the priest and the parents and God parents are presant at a Baptism, a baby is still being Baptized. Even if the only persons at a wedding are the couple, the priest and the witness, the couple are still married. I could go on, but you get the picture.

I hear what you are saying. If I was not a cradle Catholic, I don’t think I would be able to convert in front of a crowd.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

None of which apply to normal Sunday Mass. If we are doing the Dismissal in the middle of a wedding, funeral, or baptism, we’re good to go with that, but that’s not the normal scenario.

And what about the fiasco of the Scrutinies? The Scrutinies have to use the readings of Year A, even if it is not Year A. So what is the priest supposed to do? He can do the Year A readings, except that throws the regular parishioners off of their track, and none of what they are doing in their home devotions (Liturgy of the Hours, Lenten prayer booklets, etc.) makes any sense. Or, he can do the proper readings of the year, and then none of the prayers for the Scrutinies make any sense, because they are based off the idea that the readings of Year A have just been read out.

PS: Don’t get me wrong - I toe the party line when I’m working in the RCIA, and I make everyone do it according to the book - I stand on the priest’s foot, get right in his face, and force him to do the Year A readings throughout Lent, because that’s what it says to do in the book. But I have to say, I don’t like it any more than he does, and the reasoning behind it escapes both of us.

Why set up so much confusion? The RCIA participants hate the whole thing, anyway. They’d much rather hide in their classroom downstairs than be paraded around the Church for the Scrutinies - most of them don’t even show up on those days, just to get out of it. (And yes, I call them on it and I give them heck for being absent. I know my place, and I don’t buck the system.)

Has anyone ever instructed the “regular parishioners” in the whole Christian community involvement aspect of RCIA? Have the “regular parishioners” ever been instructed in why the Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) are dismissed after the homily? Have they ever been instructed that in years when we have Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) that we will use the readings for Cycle A on these specific Sundays. Maybe publish them several weeks before, so that they are not a surprise. If the “regular parishioners” were informed about this and told that we are not parading or showcasing these people, but actually asking you to get to know them and pray for them. They might actually do so.

 

[lak611]

Has anyone ever instructed the “regular parishioners” in the whole Christian community involvement aspect of RCIA? Have the “regular parishioners” ever been instructed in why the Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) are dismissed after the homily? Have they ever been instructed that in years when we have Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) that we will use the readings for Cycle A on these specific Sundays. Maybe publish them several weeks before, so that they are not a surprise. If the “regular parishioners” were informed about this and told that we are not parading or showcasing these people, but actually asking you to get to know them and pray for them. They might actually do so.

In my parish, they used to mention that there would be some kind of RCIA scrutiny or something in the bulletin. It just said “RCIA Scrutiny” after the Mass time. Most regular parishioners tended to avoid going to that Mass because they knew it would be longer.

 

[jmcrae]

Has anyone ever instructed the “regular parishioners” in the whole Christian community involvement aspect of RCIA? Have the “regular parishioners” ever been instructed in why the Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) are dismissed after the homily? Have they ever been instructed that in years when we have Catechumens (those to be Baptized at Easter Vigil) that we will use the readings for Cycle A on these specific Sundays. Maybe publish them several weeks before, so that they are not a surprise. If the “regular parishioners” were informed about this and told that we are not parading or showcasing these people, but actually asking you to get to know them and pray for them. They might actually do so.

There is no actual reason given in the Rite for these things, though, so there is no explanation to give. It’s just “here’s what you do,” with no explanations.

We are left to work it out for ourselves, and the priest has to try to do completely contradictory things at the same time - stand up and give a blessing while sitting down in total silence; keep still while moving around, and read and give instruction on the Year A readings while at the same time giving the instruction on the Year B or C readings. Even if we publish several weeks in advance that we are doing the A readings, how does that help the people who are supposed to be receiving the Year B or C readings?

(And if the Year B and C readings are not important enough to be received by the people on those Sundays, then why not just have the same readings every year, on those Sundays? Thus avoiding the conflict, to begin with. Or else, don’t make the Scrutinies to be dependant upon the readings of the day - change the wording of them so that they fit, no matter what readings are being done.)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is no actual reason given in the Rite for these things, though, so there is no explanation to give. It’s just “here’s what you do,” with no explanations.

We are left to work it out for ourselves, and the priest has to try to do completely contradictory things at the same time - stand up and give a blessing while sitting down in total silence; keep still while moving around, and read and give instruction on the Year A readings while at the same time giving the instruction on the Year B or C readings. Even if we publish several weeks in advance that we are doing the A readings, how does that help the people who are supposed to be receiving the Year B or C readings?

(And if the Year B and C readings are not important enough to be received by the people on those Sundays, then why not just have the same readings every year, on those Sundays? Thus avoiding the conflict, to begin with. Or else, don’t make the Scrutinies to be dependant upon the readings of the day - change the wording of them so that they fit, no matter what readings are being done.)

Who exactly is supposed to be receiving Cycle B and C readings? When Catechumens are present among the community and are preparing to be received into the Community the WHOLE community reflects on the cycle A readings. They are for everyone not just the Catechumens to reflect on.

 

[jwashu]

Personally I think it’s too long for some… I was 99% sure before I started RCIA and knew for sure that was what God was calling me to do within a month.

Now my wife on the other hand is a different story. Since she had never been baptized, by her Baptist Minister Grandfather nor our Presbyterian Minister (of almost 20 years - because he thought she was) she is going through the entire process. Since she really didn’t attend Sunday School or much else growing up (her father typically rebelled) she has learned a lot and continues to learn a lot.

As a former Youth Director I joked that I would take a test if necessary so that I could go ahead and move into full communion. However my RCIA director asked me to go through the whole process for a number of reason. Some being that I could explain things from a Protestant standpoint, and why the Catholic view was correct but also to add value to the group.

Truly I don’t think I have learned anything except a few prayers I didn’t know which would make me feel like I was wasting my time. However what I have had, is the fellowship. I have had the experience of seeing my wife grow and many others. I have been able to display for all (at those public professions and rites) that there are people who are making the committment to join the Catholic Church. Taking the time because they know Christ’s Church.

It is my hope that this makes a difference somewhere for someone. I long for the Eucharist but if my denial for a few more months helps someone, I believe that is the right thing to do.

So for those who don’t like being in the “spotlight” or don’t feel comfortable telling stuff in front of others, remember that many people are probably feeling the same way you do. AND that your example may help someone else move closer to Christ.

That should make it all worthwhile…

Joe

 

[flyersfan1088]

The Knights of Columbus can’t reform the RCIA RITE. They may be developing a program that can be implimented in parishes to help get rid of the parish to parish and docese to diocese differences.

I know they can’t reform the RITE. Sorry I wasn’t more clear.

 

[janw]

My conversion is between me and God, no one else.

I am all for community, but I guess I’m sick of hearing this same old excuse anytime I inquire about an RCIA program. Somehow I am wrong in wanting to convert since I would rather focus on being right with God and giving myself to Him by becoming a member of His Church rather than get involved in a ton of church activities before even converting. Thats how I’m constantly made to feel.

I have a lot of private struggles right now, plus a lot of social anxiety, so I’m not going to be comfortable jumping right into a bunch of social groups and focus only on “community” of church when right now what I need is the “worship” aspect of church. What happened to worship? Yes, its important for converts to realize the importance of community and being involved…but during conversion we are going through a lot of turmoil and hardship and I think too much the community aspect overshadows everything else. We’re trying to learn and grow spiritually and all that keeps getting shoved down our throats is “community! community! hold hands! greet your neighbor!”

Sorry, right now I’m trying to figure out where God wants me and trying to make a life changing decision. I will gladly be involved in community later, but right now my most important concern is following God and growing spiritually. I know community is important and wish my fellow parishioners well and want to make friends and such…but I can focus more on that later after I am actually Catholic and able to feel whole and stable spiritually.

I don’t know exactly what you may be going through, but it seemed when I finally decided to act on what I had come to believe and go to the catholic church, the problems in my personal life got much worse. I being a former protestant and not understanding alot about the catholic church felt the people and priest were unwelcoming and unfriendly even though I am not a extremely social person myself, I was accustom to many in the church always after service saying they were glad you visited and hoped you would return. But after spending about 5 years studying catholic beliefs, I knew this was where God wanted me to go. I continued to go and have come to understand and appreciate the customs of the church. I feel the more I was determined the more mental struggles I had to go through and got very discouraged at times. Others may disagree but after 20 years of study of the Bible and daily prayer and a close relationship with the lord, I believe it was all Spiritual warfare. I believe very much that God wanted me to go in this direction and I believe many times when we try to do what God wants, we get trouble from the evil ones. Pray, Pray and Pray. My heart goes out to you and remember who has all the power to help us in all situations if we love him and are trying to do his will. May God bless you in your trials.

 

[janw]

As for being put in the spotlight and paraded in the church. I was one of the most shy children ever and have overcome alot of that or at least have learned to deal with most of it and try not to show it. Sometimes my heart races and I just have to try to hold it together. Pray about this as Jesus said we must acknowledge him publicly. I love him dearly and whatever it takes, even if it doesn’t always make sense to me, I will try my best to do. He will help us and bless us if our motives are right. I am not making lite of your situation, I know it could be even harder for you so I pray God will give you strength.

 

[Joannm]

Personally I think it’s too long for some… I was 99% sure before I started RCIA and knew for sure that was what God was calling me to do within a month.

We had a woman like that in RCIA a few years back. She was very involved in her Christian Church and even served as a missionary. She had been going to mass for years with her husband who was Catholic. After addending about 8 sessions we realized that there was no reason for her to continue RCIA. Our catechumen. who was Muslim, really needed to be taught everything and this other woman was simply bored out of her mind, although she did contribute but the level was too high for our Muslim lady to comprehend. After the 8th week we decided she was ready and we admitted her to the Church just before Christmas, which was a treat for her to be able to receive Communion at Christmas.

 

[jmcrae]

Who exactly is supposed to be receiving Cycle B and C readings?

The parishioners of the Church. (If they are not required, why have them? )

When Catechumens are present among the community and are preparing to be received into the Community the WHOLE community reflects on the cycle A readings. They are for everyone not just the Catechumens to reflect on.

Then why are there B and C readings in existence? And why are the Lenten devotions and prayers of Year B and C focused on those readings?

 

[KarenElissa]

We had a woman like that in RCIA a few years back. She was very involved in her Christian Church and even served as a missionary. She had been going to mass for years with her husband who was Catholic. After addending about 8 sessions we realized that there was no reason for her to continue RCIA. Our catechumen. who was Muslim, really needed to be taught everything and this other woman was simply bored out of her mind, although she did contribute but the level was too high for our Muslim lady to comprehend. After the 8th week we decided she was ready and we admitted her to the Church just before Christmas, which was a treat for her to be able to receive Communion at Christmas.

That is how it usually works at my parish and I’m glad about that. Both candidates and catechumens meet together, but any of the candidates who were ready were received into the church on Christ the King. The catechumens continue meeting and anyone else who is interested joins along the way. Then if they pick up any other candidates, now, they can also be received into the Church at Easter.

It seems to work well. People who need it, have plenty of time, but people like me who already had quite a bit of knowledge and were committed, didn’t have to wait (impatiently) for close to a year to participate in the Sacraments.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The parishioners of the Church. (If they are not required, why have them? )

Then why are there B and C readings in existence? And why are the Lenten devotions and prayers of Year B and C focused on those readings?

For when there are no Catechumens or Elect among the community.

 

[jmcrae]

For when there are no Catechumens or Elect among the community.

So, what about a priest who has to say five Masses on a Sunday, and there are Catechumens at only one of the Masses. Does he have to prepare two separate homilies?

And then what happens to a family where one member goes to the Mass where there are Catechumens, and the rest of the family members go to a different Mass? How do they complete their Lenten devotion at home, with two completely unrelated homilies to work from?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So, what about a priest who has to say five Masses on a Sunday, and there are Catechumens at only one of the Masses. Does he have to prepare two separate homilies?

And then what happens to a family where one member goes to the Mass where there are Catechumens, and the rest of the family members go to a different Mass? How do they complete their Lenten devotion at home, with two completely unrelated homilies to work from?

The priest uses the cycle A readings at all five Masses. It’s not like the 5:30 pm and 7am, 9am are a different community from the 11am. (I know in some parishes it seems like they are) However they are really all members of the SAME parish community and the catechumens are seeking to be received into the ONE parish community. The Catechumens should be at different Masses over the Sundays in Lent, so that the WHOLE parish community can meet and get to know them.

 

[jmcrae]

The priest uses the cycle A readings at all five Masses. It’s not like the 5:30 pm and 7am, 9am are a different community from the 11am. (I know in some parishes it seems like they are) However they are really all members of the SAME parish community and the catechumens are seeking to be received into the ONE parish community.

So, again, why does the Church even bother to have B and C readings? Since the entire world-wide Church is the community; not just the local parish.

It’s never going to happen at our parish, anyway, since our parish priest does not consider the Catechumens to be persons for whom he has any responsibility. He says, “they are not even Catholic yet, and I am supposed to do what for them? Forget it. My responsibility is to those who are already Catholic.”

(I think he is under the impression that the Catechumens at our parish came up with the Rite of Christian Initiation documents at an Inquiry meeting last September - I don’t think he realizes they are documents of the Church. But considering how confusing and counter-intuitive they are, it’s an easy mistake for him to have made, I think.)

The Catechumens should be at different Masses over the Sundays in Lent, so that the WHOLE parish community can meet and get to know them.

Unless they have no families or no outside lives to speak of, I can’t see how you can get them to come to different Mass times each Sunday. Getting them into the habit of attending Mass in the first place means teaching them how to make a day schedule. If you then throw them off their day schedule, you might not ever see them again.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So, again, why does the Church even bother to have B and C readings? Since the entire world-wide Church is the community; not just the local parish.

It’s never going to happen at our parish, anyway, since our parish priest does not consider the Catechumens to be persons for whom he has any responsibility. He says, “they are not even Catholic yet, and I am supposed to do what for them? Forget it. My responsibility is to those who are already Catholic.”

(I think he is under the impression that the Catechumens at our parish came up with the Rite of Christian Initiation documents at an Inquiry meeting last September - I don’t think he realizes they are documents of the Church. But considering how confusing and counter-intuitive they are, it’s an easy mistake for him to have made, I think.)

Unless they have no families or no outside lives to speak of, I can’t see how you can get them to come to different Mass times each Sunday. Getting them into the habit of attending Mass in the first place means teaching them how to make a day schedule. If you then throw them off their day schedule, you might not ever see them again.

Our Catechumens and Candidates after we got through most of the year and into the Lenten season were so fired up they would have come to 5 different Masses EVERY Sunday!!

You parish priest is forgetting that he is responsible for ALL the souls in his parish, Catholic or not.

 

[grobyak]

HI all - I was thinking about this very thing the other night after our latest RCIA meeting. I’m a sponsor for a 21-year old young man, and also went through this process last year with a buddy of mine who wanted to be Confirmed. Both have been edifying, but somewhat frustrating experiences.

I’ll try to be brief. It seems to me that the first few months of RCIA should be nothing other than learning about Jesus and growing in His Word. I know some of this happens at Mass each week, but I wish there was more - MUCH more! Walking through the Gospels and Acts would seem to provide the foundation that says,“This is who were are. We are who we are because of Him. This is His Church, and you are becoming a part of this family.” I just don’t think it’s impossible to spend TOO much time in His Word. That’s what opened my heart to Him, and to His Church.

Maybe it’s just me, or maybe I’m colored by my own experience of falling away from Home and the experiences of SOOOO many of my friends who are now either away totally or over at the Evangelical mega-church. It just seems to me that so much of RCIA is the avalanche of Catholic doctrine that leaves catecheumens (sp?) with a dazed look on their face at the end of each meeting. I know this avalanche turned me away-I felt I could never measure up since I didn’t know A, B or C- and it was Evangelical radio that introduced me to Jesus in a way I’d never met him as a Catholic. I just think there needs to be firm grounding in the foundation of JESUS, and build from there.

I also think leaders need to go through some kind of test to make sure what they’re teaching is the truth. The guy who led this past week’s talk on the Blessed Mother showed just how much even “good” Catholics get it wrong. Wonderful, godly man, but he got too much wrong. ARGH!!

Sorry for the ramble, but this one hurts my heart, and I see it on the faces of my soon-to-be brothers and sisters in Christ.

Dominus vobiscum. <><

 

[jmcrae]

Our Catechumens and Candidates after we got through most of the year and into the Lenten season were so fired up they would have come to 5 different Masses EVERY Sunday!!

Ours are excited too - but they have kids (meaning Sunday hockey) and spouses. Not everyone has their own car - some of them have to borrow their spouse’s car, which means that, much as they would love to be in Church all weekend, it’s just not physically possible.

You parish priest is forgetting that he is responsible for ALL the souls in his parish, Catholic or not.

Probably. But he comes from a country where everyone is already Catholic. He is still getting used to the idea of the existence of non-Catholics - before coming to this country, he had no idea that there were actually people alive who have never been to Church before, or who go to Protestant churches. It is something of a culture shock, for him. (He is also grappling with the concept of divorce and remarriage - he’s shell-shocked about how prevelant and accepted it is, here. I think someone led him to believe that he was coming to a civilized country - poor guy!! )