Do you think RCIA needs reform?

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The theory behind this sounds good, but for practical purposes I don’t see the benefit. I was a Catechumen. If I had been singled out in that manner I would have been crushed and would not be Catholic, now. I’m thankful for my pastor’s sensitivity in making the decision to alter the RCIA process. Because someone has been baptized does not mean they have attended a Christian church. In other words, they are no further along in their Christian education than I was. Example, a baby baptized in the Catholic church, but never attended any Christian church throughout their life.
They are markedly different by virtue of their baptism, no matter how much or how little formal instruction they have. That needs to be acknowledged by the initiating community.
 
The theory behind this sounds good, but for practical purposes I don’t see the benefit. I was a Catechumen. If I had been singled out in that manner I would have been crushed and would not be Catholic, now. I’m thankful for my pastor’s sensitivity in making the decision to alter the RCIA process. Because someone has been baptized does not mean they have attended a Christian church. In other words, they are no further along in their Christian education than I was. Example, a baby baptized in the Catholic church, but never attended any Christian church throughout their life.
Again - again - again - the Dismissal is not supposed to be “educational.” The education level of the participants has nothing to do with it, because no teaching whatsoever should occur during the Dismissal - only prayer and Scripture reading.

The educational portion happens in the Catechism class, either after Mass or on a week-night, and at that time, all of the participants, both baptized and unbaptized, come together to become educated in the teachings of the Catholic faith.
 
Again - again - again - the Dismissal is not supposed to be “educational.” The education level of the participants has nothing to do with it, because no teaching whatsoever should occur during the Dismissal - only prayer and Scripture reading.

The educational portion happens in the Catechism class, either after Mass or on a week-night, and at that time, all of the participants, both baptized and unbaptized, come together to become educated in the teachings of the Catholic faith.
I am sorry but why dismiss anybody from Mass?
They can get scripture and prayer in Mass.
I am glad that my Priest did not dismiss anybody from Mass!
 
I am sorry but why dismiss anybody from Mass?
They can get scripture and prayer in Mass.
I am glad that my Priest did not dismiss anybody from Mass!
The Dismissal is for the Catechumens; it’s part of the RCIA process for them. I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind it. I don’t know why Catechumens aren’t allowed to go to Mass, but other unbaptized persons, especially those who are not intending to become Catholic, can come to Mass quite freely.

If I were in charge, everything that disrupts the Mass, including the Dismissal, would be deleted from the RCIA process, and I would make the rules the same for everyone - either all unbaptized people can come to Mass, or else none of them can.

However, the word from Rome is that these are essential components of the RCIA process, and are the law for RCIA, at least at the present time, so we zealously do our best to obey, and to make sure that the Dismissal is used in the manner actually intended by Rome, and not “repurposed” to something else.
 
The Dismissal is for the Catechumens; it’s part of the RCIA process for them. I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind it. I don’t know why Catechumens aren’t allowed to go to Mass, but other unbaptized persons, especially those who are not intending to become Catholic, can come to Mass quite freely.

If I were in charge, everything that disrupts the Mass, including the Dismissal, would be deleted from the RCIA process, and I would make the rules the same for everyone - either all unbaptized people can come to Mass, or else none of them can.

However, the word from Rome is that these are essential components of the RCIA process, and are the law for RCIA, at least at the present time, so we zealously do our best to obey, and to make sure that the Dismissal is used in the manner actually intended by Rome, and not “repurposed” to something else.
What was the policy for catechumens attendance at Mass before the RCIA program started? When private instruction by a priest was the manner to join the Church, did catechumens attend Mass or not?
 
What was the policy for catechumens attendance at Mass before the RCIA program started? When private instruction by a priest was the manner to join the Church, did catechumens attend Mass or not?
Went to mass, sat and listened and prayed and learned to love and to worship in my new home.

Frankly, if I had to go through all the “rigmarole” that is RCIA today, I’d likely still be Methodist. My instruction process was part of a conversion process that will last my entire life long. I am a different Catholic today than I was 35-plus years ago, but I am also a different Catholid today than I was yesterday.
 
What was the policy for catechumens attendance at Mass before the RCIA program started? When private instruction by a priest was the manner to join the Church, did catechumens attend Mass or not?
According to the literature I have in my library (which consists of advice to priests who are bringing converts into the Church, written during the 1950s) priests were told to let those in the convert training classes know that they were “welcome, but not required” to attend Mass during the formation period, with the caveat that they were to refrain from receiving Holy Communion, and that they might feel free to participate in whatever gestures and responses they knew from studying them in the class - and not to worry yet about the ones they had not yet studied.

All converts were assumed to be “unknowns” - they didn’t distinguish between baptized and unbaptized converts. Everyone received both a conditional baptism and First Confession at the end of the program, before going for Confirmation and First Holy Communion, regardless of their former religious experiences.
 
According to the literature I have in my library (which consists of advice to priests who are bringing converts into the Church, written during the 1950s) priests were told to let those in the convert training classes know that they were “welcome, but not required” to attend Mass during the formation period, with the caveat that they were to refrain from receiving Holy Communion, and that they might feel free to participate in whatever gestures and responses they knew from studying them in the class - and not to worry yet about the ones they had not yet studied.

All converts were assumed to be “unknowns” - they didn’t distinguish between baptized and unbaptized converts. Everyone received both a conditional baptism and First Confession at the end of the program, before going for Confirmation and First Holy Communion, regardless of their former religious experiences.
Other than requiring the conditional baptism for everyone, the old program sounds like it was better and more straightforward.
 
Other than requiring the conditional baptism for everyone, the old program sounds like it was better and more straightforward.
I think I would have preferred something like it, myself. I don’t actually have any serious objections to the conditional baptism, either - it would save the time, energy, and emotion that gets spent when you have to go back to your old church and try to pry your Baptismal records out of them.
 
I think I would have preferred something like it, myself. I don’t actually have any serious objections to the conditional baptism, either - it would save the time, energy, and emotion that gets spent when you have to go back to your old church and try to pry your Baptismal records out of them.
Another difference with the old system was that it was much more private. Converts did not have to be “put on display” at all the various ceremonies. Some people are more reserved and do not enjoy this type of thing. Most of us who are cradle Catholics had our Baptism privately with just our family and godparents. The whole congregation did not watch. It was a similar experience for a woman I know who was Lutheran and converted to Catholic prior to the RCIA program. She was received into the Church with only her sponsor and immediate family present. She said she would have been uncomfortable with all the extra attention required now.
 
Another difference with the old system was that it was much more private. Converts did not have to be “put on display” at all the various ceremonies. Some people are more reserved and do not enjoy this type of thing. Most of us who are cradle Catholics had our Baptism privately with just our family and godparents. The whole congregation did not watch. It was a similar experience for a woman I know who was Lutheran and converted to Catholic prior to the RCIA program. She was received into the Church with only her sponsor and immediate family present. She said she would have been uncomfortable with all the extra attention required now.
The only disadvantage to the old process was that people came into the Church not really knowing anybody - but there are ways of getting around that without having to disrupt the Mass with displays of the RCIA participants. For example, one thing they suggest in the literature that I have is that new converts create or join a club that is specifically intended for the welcoming of new converts, where they would meet other new converts and have discussion evenings on a regular basis, with topics suggested by the priest. Also, once you are Catholic, you are free to join any of the associations that are available at the parish - the priest could easily make these known to the new convert, and encourage him or her to participate in them.

I don’t know of very many people who keep in close touch with the people they went through RCIA with - most of them move on to new parishes when they get married or when other things happen in their lives, anyway, and then they still have to make new friends. So, while the “community” aspect of RCIA is good, it’s usually a very transitional kind of community, which is the same as what you would have if you are coming into the Church through private instruction, with sponsors from the Legion of Mary. 🤷
 
Again - again - again - the Dismissal is not supposed to be “educational.” The education level of the participants has nothing to do with it, because no teaching whatsoever should occur during the Dismissal - only prayer and Scripture reading.
Is there something online that I can read about this? I find that at BOW, I need to do some teaching. If Noah is mentioned in a reading, I need to go back and explain the story about Noah as background info. If the reading mentions “saints”, I have to explain who these are (not just the canonized ones). This happens because the group often has no idea what to make of the readings. Last Sunday was a confusing one for our group. They wanted to know what the “thief” was and what it meant by one being taken. We are told to answer questions like these and make the readings understandable to them.
 
Is there something online that I can read about this? I find that at BOW, I need to do some teaching. If Noah is mentioned in a reading, I need to go back and explain the story about Noah as background info. If the reading mentions “saints”, I have to explain who these are (not just the canonized ones). This happens because the group often has no idea what to make of the readings. Last Sunday was a confusing one for our group. They wanted to know what the “thief” was and what it meant by one being taken. We are told to answer questions like these and make the readings understandable to them.
Is it possible to do a short session about the upcoming Sunday readings at the end of the previous Catechism class? It might lengthen the Catechism class by a few minutes, but at least that way, any questions they have about the meaning of the readings would be answered, and they would be better prepared to pray with them. (Plus, your Candidates would also have the opportunity to participate in some discussion about them.)
 
The only disadvantage to the old process was that people came into the Church not really knowing anybody
That happens to cradle Catholics too. Not very many people stay in the same parish their entire lives. Marriage, career, relocation happens to everyone.
 
Is it possible to do a short session about the upcoming Sunday readings at the end of the previous Catechism class? It might lengthen the Catechism class by a few minutes, but at least that way, any questions they have about the meaning of the readings would be answered, and they would be better prepared to pray with them. (Plus, your Candidates would also have the opportunity to participate in some discussion about them.)
It’s hard to precisely explain, but there are a bunch of us, sometimes one, sometimes the other does BOW or the catechism part. The person who does the catechism part the week before will not be the same person who does the BOW the following week. I think what you have suggested might not work on account of coordination. The person the week before will not have prepared for the readings the following week. The change you suggest would require that the director require all of us to make the change, and then the coordination would work. I don’t think this will happen, since the director wants us to do whatever during BOW, so long as we mention the readings. That’s part of why I asked if there is some document online that is very specific about what to do during that time, so that I could see if it might be desirable to present that document to the right person…
 
It’s hard to precisely explain, but there are a bunch of us, sometimes one, sometimes the other does BOW or the catechism part. The person who does the catechism part the week before will not be the same person who does the BOW the following week. I think what you have suggested might not work on account of coordination. The person the week before will not have prepared for the readings the following week. The change you suggest would require that the director require all of us to make the change, and then the coordination would work. I don’t think this will happen, since the director wants us to do whatever during BOW, so long as we mention the readings. That’s part of why I asked if there is some document online that is very specific about what to do during that time, so that I could see if it might be desirable to present that document to the right person…
Ah. The document you are looking for is already in your RCIA director’s library - it goes by the title The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. Refer him or her to paragraphs 81-89. 🙂
 
Ah. The document you are looking for is already in your RCIA director’s library - it goes by the title The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. Refer him or her to paragraphs 81-89. 🙂
Thanks. I know we have a copy of that at the parish. I’ve borrowed it to read before. When I get a chance, I’ll scope out 81-89. 🙂 It would then be a good item to mention at our next organizational meeting.
 
Again - again - again - the Dismissal is not supposed to be “educational.” The education level of the participants has nothing to do with it, because no teaching whatsoever should occur during the Dismissal - only prayer and Scripture reading.

The educational portion happens in the Catechism class, either after Mass or on a week-night, and at that time, all of the participants, both baptized and unbaptized, come together to become educated in the teachings of the Catholic faith.
Sorry, but that’s not how it works in the real world. Some people will leave, others will chat, and others may daydream. The conversations we had during that “reflection” time were very informative, questions about the first half of mass, etc, and they most likely would never have been asked and discussed during the class time on Thursday night.

We going to have to agree to disagree. I’m not changing my opinion on this issue.

When was the last time you were in RCIA and dismissed from mass to “reflect?” If you were in that situation, you might see it differently.
 
I am sorry but why dismiss anybody from Mass?
They can get scripture and prayer in Mass.
I am glad that my Priest did not dismiss anybody from Mass!
Because it is an important part of the RCIA process and should not be omitted or modified.
 
The Dismissal is for the Catechumens; it’s part of the RCIA process for them. I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind it. I don’t know why Catechumens aren’t allowed to go to Mass, but other unbaptized persons, especially those who are not intending to become Catholic, can come to Mass quite freely.

If I were in charge, everything that disrupts the Mass, including the Dismissal, would be deleted from the RCIA process, and I would make the rules the same for everyone - either all unbaptized people can come to Mass, or else none of them can.

However, the word from Rome is that these are essential components of the RCIA process, and are the law for RCIA, at least at the present time, so we zealously do our best to obey, and to make sure that the Dismissal is used in the manner actually intended by Rome, and not “repurposed” to something else.
It does not disrupt the Mass, it is part of the Liturgy. Different Rites can be inserted into the Mass for different reasons.
The Dismissal is historically part of the ancient RCIA process from the first centuries.
 
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