Do you think the US should invade Iran?

[gilliam]

Jeremy:

One of the purposes of this Iraqi invasion was to establish a stable democracy in the Middle East so that it could serve as a model to others. But this is a long-term goal since it will probably take 10-20 years until Iraq is (hopefully) running smoothly. .

No expert I know thinks it will take anywhere near that long for a stable democracy in Iraq.

All that is needed to insite Iran into revolution is a willingness of the US to back the revolution.

 

[FightingFat]

Fitz:

Most that post here know that we are considered right wing war mongers if we back our president so the poster assumed we would all be glad to invade Iran. I don’t like the suggestion of that.

Sorry if I upset you Fitz. I honestly didn’t assume anything, I was just interested in your opinion.

Lets put this in a bit more context shall we? Here’s a link to the Times (a right wing newspaper) article “Straw snubs US hawks on Iran”

timesonline.co.uk/article/0,2087-1452781,00.html

JACK STRAW has drawn up a dossier putting the case against a military attack on Iran amid fears that President George W Bush’s administration may seek Britain’s backing for a new conflict.

Straw and his officials fear that hawks in Washington will talk the American president into a strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities, just as they persuaded him to go to war in Iraq. NI_MPU(‘middle’);The foreign secretary has produced a 200-page dossier that rules out military action and makes the case for a “negotiated solution” to curbing the ayatollahs’ nuclear ambitions amid increasingly bellicose noises from Washington.

Now Jack Straw has been an vocal defender of the Iraq war. I think this is a symptom of the fact that Blair’s government were forced into a corner in supporting Bush for the war and are now making an early move over Iran to make it clear that they wont be backing action there.

It is an interesting demonstration of world politics at play and sheds an interesting light on the global position, don’t you think?

And please…Don’t take offence. We’re all one family- Catholics, just chatting about political issues that effect us all!

 

[FightingFat]

Jeremy:

One of the purposes of this Iraqi invasion was to establish a stable democracy in the Middle East so that it could serve as a model to others. But this is a long-term goal since it will probably take 10-20 years until Iraq is (hopefully) running smoothly. If we invade Iran before then then we are invalidating one of the only good things which I hope to see come from this Iraq war.

My goodness people, war should always be considered the very last option to be used only when all else fails. That’s part of the just war doctrine. I cannot think of anything which Iran has done to us to justify putting them through the same hell that Iraq is currently going through.

This is a good post and I think demonstrates well how I think the majority of poster pro-war feel here. I wonder, Jeremy, would an invasion of Iran change your impression of the administrations motives for war in Iraq? What conclusions would you draw if such an invasion were to go ahead?

 

[Church_Militant]

Without direct action against us, I will not support an invasion of Iran.
that’s just not a viable answer at this time. If Israel and Iran want to whack each other…that is not our affair.

I am not a Bush fan, so though I support our people on the ground over there and am in favor of them getting finished and coming safely home just as soon as possible. I do not support the war in Iraq either. I won’t go into all my reasons because I’m sure that others have probably stated them before me and with more eloquence. I just try to be about Our Father’s business.

 

[Jeremy]

gilliam:

No expert I know thinks it will take anywhere near that long for a stable democracy in Iraq.

I wasn’t referring to the time it would take to officially have a government and constitution there, I was talking about how it would take for everything to totally settle down. I admit I just made those numbers up but I think if anything they are conservative.

FightingFat:

I wonder, Jeremy, would an invasion of Iran change your impression of the administrations motives for war in Iraq? What conclusions would you draw if such an invasion were to go ahead?

I supported the war in Iraq because I thought there was an imminent threat of terrorist attack from a WMD program. In other words I believed the administration’s misinformation. Right now I think the misinformation was (mostly) just a mistake and not deliberate.

In any case I am now thoroughly soured on the idea of pre-emptive war. I would almost certainly not support such a war now. I don’t know what conclusions I would draw if we went to war now with Iran because it is to early to say, seeing as the administration has not made a case for such a thing. I can tell you that I am very worried about the direction our country is going in.

 

[FightingFat]

Jeremy:

In any case I am now thoroughly soured on the idea of pre-emptive war. I would almost certainly not support such a war now. I don’t know what conclusions I would draw if we went to war now with Iran because it is to early to say, seeing as the administration has not made a case for such a thing. I can tell you that I am very worried about the direction our country is going in.

I’m with you Jeremy!

 

[aimee]

I’m with you Jeremy!
[/quote]

Hey FF,
Would you consider yourself a pacifist?

Nothing worth fighting for? ever?

 

[gilliam]

Jeremy:

In any case I am now thoroughly soured on the idea of pre-emptive war.

Whatever… Right now the people in Iraq are fighting terrorists and thugs for their freedom. My money is with them.

If the people of Iran want freedom, great. I will support them.

The more free countries we have in this world, the more peaceful it will be.

 

[FightingFat]

aimee:

Hey FF,
Would you consider yourself a pacifist?

Nothing worth fighting for? ever?

No. I’m a trained martial arts instructor. I train Wing Chun Kung Fu four times a week and am second dan black belt in goju ryu Karate. I have had two serious fights. Once to stop someone getting raped, once to stop myself getting mugged (by 6 army squaddies). I also joined the Navy as a youngster, but left because it didn’t sit well with my religious beliefs. Ultimately, if someone ordered my to kill someone, I wasn’t convinced I could do it…In cold blood.

It is horrible (fighting) but if someone tried to hurt my wife, or my four children, I wouldn’t let them. I’m not terribly emotional about it though, for me it is the victory of stupidity, the last possible resort. That is my faith- every human life is sacred. I understand the argument with respect to just war doctrine, but as far as Iraq is conerned I have very strong concerns as to whether or not it applies.

A question for you aimee- do you think G.W. Bush is a Christian man? Do you think his policies and attitude espouse Christian virtues?

Matthew 5 & 6

 

[Brad]

Jeremy:

In any case I am now thoroughly soured on the idea of pre-emptive war. I would almost certainly not support such a war now. I don’t know what conclusions I would draw if we went to war now with Iran because it is to early to say, seeing as the administration has not made a case for such a thing. I can tell you that I am very worried about the direction our country is going in.

Would you be opposed to war in all cases if (yes or no please - no ifs or buts)

1. Mass genocide of populations was occuring within the country?

or

1. You had good information that a plan was in works to hoist a nuclear bomb on a major city with the potential of killing 200,000 in one shot?

 

[aimee]

A question for you aimee- do you think G.W. Bush is a Christian man? Do you think his policies and attitude espouse Christian virtues?

Matthew 5 & 6

Yes. I know it to be true…

 

[Jeremy]

gilliam:

Whatever… Right now the people in Iraq are fighting terrorists and thugs for their freedom. My money is with them.

If the people of Iran want freedom, great. I will support them.

I also support freedom. However, and I don’t mean to be trite, if someone dies then what good does freedom do them? Martyrdom is something that you can only choose for yourself, I would be very careful before choosing it for someone else.

Brad:

Would you be opposed to war in all cases if (yes or no please - no ifs or buts)

1. Mass genocide of populations was occuring within the country?

or

1. You had good information that a plan was in works to hoist a nuclear bomb on a major city with the potential of killing 200,000 in one shot?

If mass genocide was actively happening then the people you are trying to save would be dead anyway, so war would make sense.

If a country is about to attack another country, with a nuclear bomb or otherwise, then the first country is already the aggressor and the war is not pre-emptive but defensive.

In Iraq, the first was not happening and for the second, we clearly did not have “good information”.

 

[gilliam]

Jeremy:

I also support freedom. However, and I don’t mean to be trite, if someone dies then what good does freedom do them? .

If our grandfathers thought that, then they would not have fought WWII, would they?

 

[Jay74]

gilliam:

If our grandfathers thought that, then they would not have fought WWII, would they?

True. And their grandchildren wouldn’t be free.

 

[aimee]

FightingFat:

It is horrible (fighting) but if someone tried to hurt my wife, or my four children, I wouldn’t let them. I’m not terribly emotional about it though, for me it is the victory of stupidity, the last possible resort. That is my faith- every human life is sacred. I understand the argument with respect to just war doctrine, but as far as Iraq is conerned I have very strong concerns as to whether or not it applies.

A question for you aimee- do you think G.W. Bush is a Christian man? Do you think his policies and attitude espouse Christian virtues?

Matthew 5 & 6

Yes, fighting is horrible…war is horrible…but the thing is I consider you my brother and if you were hurt or in trouble I would help you …that is how I see it… every life is sacred.

 

[miguel]

Brad:

Would you be opposed to war in all cases if (yes or no please - no ifs or buts)

1. Mass genocide of populations was occuring within the country?

or

1. You had good information that a plan was in works to hoist a nuclear bomb on a major city with the potential of killing 200,000 in one shot?

We have mass genocide going on in America every day. What in the hell are we doing all over the world when we can’t even control the murdering within our own borders?

 

[FightingFat]

aimee:

Yes, fighting is horrible…war is horrible…but the thing is I consider you my brother and if you were hurt or in trouble I would help you …that is how I see it… every life is sacred.

Thanks aimee! I would help you to! I would hope (and in my experience it has been true) that a good hard thump on the nose is the most I am forced to resort to. However, the issues at hand are more complicated than that. I don’t presume to know all the answers, I have read and argued and discussed, and in this instance I have serious reservations about the morality of this action. I feel it is at the very least fair to say that ‘we’ had other options than an assault, an invasion if you will.

aimee:

Yes. I know it to be true…

I sure hope you’re right! My own opinion of the man differs…And please be assured I wish it were otherwise, still, history (and Jesus) will judge better than I!

 

[Franze]

No, I am going to be selfish, it´s an impossible ocuppation and a difficult army, not, greetings

 

[Jeremy]

If our grandfathers thought that, then they would not have fought WWII, would they?

Our grandfathers thought that someone could enjoy freedom while they were dead? Of course not.

They thought that the people over in Europe were as good as dead anyway, and if nothing was done about it, so would be the rest of the world.

 

[catsrus]

Absolutely NOT!