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exnihilo
Guest
I donāt know that most people want more gun control. I do think most people want more gun control if by gun control they mean the laws already in place. Most people donāt seem to know what the current laws are.
Most people most certainly do want evil acts to stop. But no laws are sufficient for that.
If a person makes their decision whether to believe in God or not based on gun control then they arenāt a serious person.
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niceatheist
Guest
This thread demonstrates one thing clearly. Humans ability to assess risk is just bloody awful. The odds of being murdered by a stranger are something like 1 in 16000, and thatās global odds, so it is likely to be at least slightly skewed by regions where murder is more common. The odds of being in a mass shooting are about 0.00000143%. If youāre planning your life around being shot to death, then youāre already, by statistical measure, not a serious person.
Want to preserve your life in a measurable way, stop eating so much refined sugar or go for a half hour walk a day.
Want to preserve your life in a measurable way, stop eating so much refined sugar or go for a half hour walk a day.
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kargo27
Guest
Very wise answer.
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Angel_Bradford
Guest
I have carried at Mass and other church functions at the request of the pastor.
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exnihilo
Guest
Not really. Carrying for self defense covers all attempts of murder, robbery and other crimes.
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JulianN
Guest
Yes. They are prohibited.
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Lmab451
Guest
No to pepper spray: Everyone, not just the intended target, gets a dose of it and it does no good against someone armed.
Concealed Carry: Yes with exceptions. I pray that I never need to use it. Proper training required since there would be multiple people moving around at once. I do not under any circumstances allow a weapon past our communion rail on to the sanctuary.
We are permitted, by the CCC, to defend the life of others when faced with extreme circumstances, with weapons if necessary. MUST HAVE EXTENSIVE TRAINING! Otherwise, youāre more a risk than a help. Make a plan in your parish to have one or more skilled person(s) at every mass or church gathering and make it known to parishioners so that they donāt become fearful if they notice the weapon.
Concealed Carry: Yes with exceptions. I pray that I never need to use it. Proper training required since there would be multiple people moving around at once. I do not under any circumstances allow a weapon past our communion rail on to the sanctuary.
We are permitted, by the CCC, to defend the life of others when faced with extreme circumstances, with weapons if necessary. MUST HAVE EXTENSIVE TRAINING! Otherwise, youāre more a risk than a help. Make a plan in your parish to have one or more skilled person(s) at every mass or church gathering and make it known to parishioners so that they donāt become fearful if they notice the weapon.
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Lmab451
Guest
Usher. Sorry! I shouldāve included that.
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Lemuel
Guest
If the church allowed it, I would. If not, I would not. Itās their right to decide and as a guest, Iām morally and legally bound to respect their decision.
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niceatheist
Guest
Which, statistically, is such a small likelihood that youāre not going to be safer with the gun as without.
Think about it. The odds are so low that youāre going to be shot by a stranger, mass shooting or otherwise, that youāre literally packing heat for a problem that almost no one at least in the West is likely to face. This is the same sort of logic that makes some people frightened of flying.
Want to live longer. Chew your food. Choking kills more people by orders of a magnitude than being shot.
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exnihilo
Guest
I donāt disagree with you entirely. As you say flying, particularly US carriers, is extremely safe. Much safer than driving. But just because something is unlikely doesnāt mean we donāt prepare for it. It is unlikely my house will burn down but I still have it insured.
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niceatheist
Guest
Itās not just that being shot to death by a stranger is unlikely, itās that it is extraordinarily unlikely. Iām not arguing that churches and other public buildings shouldnāt take precautions (my work place has a lock down plan). Whatās really happening here is our primate brain, which works very well at identifying and assessing risks on the Savannah or in the jungle, actually works pretty darned badly at assessing what Iād call non-imminent risk. Thatās why when we see a report of a mass shooting or a child abduction, and itās plastered across the news, our brains, built as they are to assess imminent risk, immediately go into that mode of operation. As rational beings, we ought to be able to recognize that we are overreacting very badly.
If your state allows you to carry a gun, then thatās your right, though I imagine even in Texas, property owners have some rights to prevent people carrying guns to enter their premises. But if you imagine that it has, statistically, made you safer in any meaningful way, then you really are behaving irrationally.
Now things change a lot when itās not a stranger. Murder and assault by people you know is actually a lot higher, ironically. Itās still not terribly high, mind you, but your family, extended family and friends represent a greater threat to your physical wellbeing than some random misanthrope or terrorist.
Believe me, I understand. Everytime I hear about a mass shooting, my heart jumps, and I can sense the whole threat response system in my brain kicking in. But I now understand that while the response is normal, I am a being with a fairly sophisticated cognitive system that can take a step back, and rationally measure the risk, and honestly, I donāt believe for a second, even with the precautions at my work place, that they are going to bump up my odds of survival in any meaningful way, seeing as more likely to get hit by a car on my way through the parking lot after work than to have someone come through the front door with a gun and start shooting me. As much as anything, the precautions are about making the people inside the building feel safer, even if the fact that they would feel safer is completely irrational.
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MonteRCMS
Guest
If I was in church and someone started shooting, would I be out of line if I charged the shooter to try to pick him up and carry him outside? Or would that be considered too violent?
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Augustinian
Guest
Depends on where the church was, it is was in a part of town, if it was in a dangerous area, of course Iād take the appropriate safety precautions, lock my car door and make sure I was strapped.
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Lemuel
Guest
Uh huh, and all the bad guys are going to feel remorse and turn their guns in as well.
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nearlycatholic
Guest
Then you wonāt ever need to concern yourself with obtaining a permit to carry or the cost and availability of ammunition. No one will ever compel you to possess a firearm!
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Vonsalza
Guest
Iām more scared of the 15 armed, frenzied parishioners with varying skill levels aiming toward the door than I am of the armed madman that just walked through it.
Life-saving lesson #1: Sit toward the front.
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nearlycatholic
Guest
There already is a supreme law from one infinitely wiser and mightier than any one in Congress or any other government. āThou shalt not kill (murder)ā If man is so devilish to defy that straight from the Creator, is there anyone so foolish to believe he can come up with something better!?
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Peebo
Guest
How patheticā¦so this is the price of upholding the 2nd amendment right to bear armsā¦lets all take our guns to churchā¦ have armed guards at the doorsā¦great ideaā¦just like we arm and train teachers to shoot to killā¦what about movie theatersā¦maybe have metal detectorsā¦armed guardsā¦shopping malls as wellā¦better yetā¦lets all walk around with guns on our hipsā¦after all this is the land of the freeā¦who cares if innocent menā¦womenā¦and children are massacred every few weeks or soā¦just as long as we have our āGod givenā right .of the 2nd amendmentā¦no doubt written on a stone tablet by the finger of God on Mt. Sinaiā¦in my opinion those people with a mental illness are the ones who seem to think the answer is more gunsā¦no wonder this country is descending into anarchy
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