Doctors Now Rebelling Against COVID19 narrative

[Maximus1]

The data at the country club. Lol

 

[gam197]

I have not advocated for putting a total freeze on economic activity. Oregon still allows activity that can be carried out with physical distancing in place. We can still go to garden centers; construction crews can still work. (We also rely more heavily on personal rather than mass transportation and have more people in single-family dwellings than in multi-family dwellings, compared to the residents of the City of New York.)

Beaches are shut(people are rebelling and going), hiking trails, golf courses, boating, and camping, are all shut down and you do not find that extreme. Taking a walk is frown upon.

 

[Maximus1]

I read what you cut and paste. It looked like a variation of the dialog of Edward G Robinson as Dathan from THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. ( Waiting for Charlton to return)

 

[Peeps]

Beaches are shut(people are rebelling and going), hiking trails, golf courses, boating, and camping are all shut down and you do not find that extreme.

We are fortunate in our Northern Illinois city (no beaches!) that many parks are open, our golf courses will open this weekend (lots of rules, e.g., only twosomes, reservations made 7 days in advance, etc.), boating is allowed (2 people to a boat, which makes no sense for a large boat or a pontoon where it’s possible to be 6 feet apart! Also, what is a family to do–leave half their family behind? ) and other outdoor activities.

I have a theory that lots of outdoor exercise, fresh air, and sunshine (within reason–sunscreen, please!) would be the best way to prevent catching this virus. It worked on TB, didn’t it?

So I would love to see lots more outdoor venues open up–and it would also be nice if winter would buzz off in our area! Just last weekend we had 3 inches of snow on a Saturday-ick! And we’ve had so much gloomy, foggy, dark, overcast, cloudy, windy, nasty, depressing weather!!! Winter go away!

But that’s the norm for Northern Illinois–we often skip spring and go straight from winter to summer.

Anyway, fresh air, outdoor life–badly needed therapy to stop COVID-19, in my opinion anyway, for what it’s worth.

 

[PetraG]

Beaches are shut(people are rebelling and going), hiking trails, golf courses, boating, and camping, are all shut down and you do not find that extreme. Taking a walk is frown upon.

We had recreational areas in Oregon open at the beginning of the pandemic, but people insisted on using them to congregate, so those were closed, because it wasn’t safe for people doing patrols to have to have contact with others who apparently did not care if they spread the virus or not. No one is keeping us from going on walks. I agree that the evidence about what is known about the transmission of the virus does not warrant trying to prevent all fleeting outdoor encounters between asymptomatic strangers. There is not evidence that this kind of encounter poses much of a threat, and as you point out it does come at a cost in terms of the overall health of the population.

As I noted, though, Oregon doesn’t have restrictions that are as strict as some other places. I agree with people who point out that the long-term nature of the pandemic argues in favor of the least onerous restrictions needed to accomplish significant lowering of transmission rates.
"What is prohibited under the order is a large gathering of people on our trails or in our parks to the point that social distancing is not possible. People can still recreate outdoors if their recreational activity involves non-contact with others outside of their household, and they can maintain appropriate social distancing.” Gov. Kate Brown, OR

The state of Oregon hopes to gradually open state parks for day use, depending on the support of the local community in the area around each park and the feasibility of appropriate staffing to enforce appropriate rules for park use, starting in early May.

 

[gam197]

I read what you cut and paste. It looked like a variation of the dialog of Edward G Robinson as Dathan from THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. ( Waiting for Charlton to return)

Cut and paste another thread.

Here is article on testing in Japan and testing is not happening. Prime Minister says what the point of test?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ts-coronavirus-testing-capacity-idUSKBN2150ZR

Japan is only using a sixth of its capacity to test for the coronavirus even as it is increasing its ability to do so, government data shows, adding to concern that it is not doing enough to contain its outbreak.

 

[gam197]

We are fortunate in our Northern Illinois city (no beaches!) that many parks are open, our golf courses will open this weekend (lots of rules, e.g., only twosomes, reservations made 7 days in advance, etc.), boating is allowed (2 people to a boat, which makes no sense for a large boat or a pontoon where it’s possible to be 6 feet apart! Also, what is a family to do–leave half their family behind? ) and other outdoor activities.

Exactly, can’t even take your own kids with you when you boat.
We are locked up tighter than ever NE in all states. Hiking trails are closed, golfing is closed, and walks are frown on. Nothing is open. People could travel to the White Mountains for hiking but everything is closed.

https://www.concordmonitor.com/NH-COVID-19-update-for-Saturday-April-25-34054695

Wilderness officials shut down more than 100 trailheads, shelters, picnic areas and other sites in New Hampshire’s White Mountain National Forest.

The U.S. Forest Service said Friday said the decision was based on federal, state and local guidance for physical distancing and to ensure the health and safety of employees, visitors and volunteers

Trails themselves remain open to those who can get to them on foot, but the state is under a stay-at-home order and officials have urged people to stay local for outdoor recreation.

 

[PetraG]

We are locked up tighter than ever NE in all states. Hiking trails are closed, golfing is closed, and walks are frown on.

You’re in the Northeast? I’m so sorry. It’s bad up there. I have friends in emergency medicine, and the situation in New York, New Jersey and New England is like a war zone in the hospitals. Just a nightmare.

Yes, we have some open golf courses, although they have restrictions in place to prevent users from touching the same surfaces without sanitizing them between uses. You can’t rent golf clubs, the pro shops are closed, and as much of the transaction as possible is done online. (They even put in a post where the cup should be, I hear.)

I don’t know about your area, but the problem in our parks was the people congregating at the trail heads or meeting up in large groups at the park. It was probably only a few who wouldn’t follow the rules, but that is how outbreaks start. The biggest concern was that the park staff would be exposed to the virus, because of course they’d spend all day talking to one group of social butterflies after another, which is not what they signed up for. If they couldn’t be given a way to do their jobs safely, then that was that.

I agree that it is important to give people as much access to the outdoors as possible. It has to be within the boundaries that keep park staff from being exposed to infection by the careless people, though.

 

[Maximus1]

Lack of testing here and Japan serves what purpose? Lol

 

[gam197]

You’re in the Northeast? I’m so sorry. It’s bad up there. I have friends in emergency medicine, and the situation in New York, New Jersey and New England is like a war zone in the hospitals. Just a nightmare.

Yes, It is bad in some states but mainly in major cities like NYC, Boston MA and Hartford Conn.
Maine, Vermont and NH are locked up. There is a large number of people in northern NY and in more rural type settings.

 

[gam197]

I don’t know about your area, but the problem in our parks was the people congregating at the trail heads or meeting up in large groups at the park. It was probably only a few who wouldn’t follow the rules, but that is how outbreaks start.

How long can they keep us all locked up? They need to be able to use trails. Boston has lots of hiking trails. I’ve done Blue Hills.

 

[Thorolfr]

My question is, how many people will be sick for a few days or a week and spend it at home on their sofa dozing through Netflix shows, and how many will arrivae at the end their lives in ICU on a respirator?

Many many people get the flu every year and many die–but many do not. Has COVID-19 killed all of the people that were susceptible to an attack from a virus that they didn’t have the strength to fend off, or are there still plenty of people who will not be able to withstand a virus that merely makes other people spend a week or two on the sofa?

There are a lot of things about COVID-19 that we still dont’ know, but it doesn’t seem to be like the flu in that it appears in some cases to attack many different parts of the body. Here’s something that I’ve been reading about:

For the most part, strokes affect older adults: The American Stroke Association says a person’s risk of stroke nearly doubles every 10 years after the age of 55. But due to the new coronavirus, doctors have seen an increase in strokes among people as young as 30—and doctors are scrambling to find out why.

According to new reporting by the Washington Post , three large US medical institutions—Philadelphia’s Thomas Jefferson University Hospitals, and New York City’s NYU Langone Health and Mount Sinai Beth Israel Hospital—are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon among younger patients with COVID-19. While the institutions maintain that there are only a few dozen cases per location, the situation is concerning enough among doctors to raise red flags.

For the most part, strokes affect older adults: The American Stroke Association says a person’s risk of stroke nearly doubles every 10 years after the age of 55. But due to the new coronavirus, doctors have seen an increase in strokes among people as young as 30—and doctors are scrambling to find out why.

One set of data, to be published in the New England Journal of Medicine ( NEJM ) on April 29, details five cases of large-vessel strokes in patients under the age of 50, all diagnosed with COVID-19, though patients only had mild symptoms—or none at all. Five cases may not sound like a lot, but it’s a sevenfold increase of what would normally be expected among patients in that age range. “It’s been surprising to learn that the virus appears to cause disease through a process of blood clotting,” Thomas Oxley, MD, PhD, a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Health System and lead investigator of the research told Medscape Medical News.

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-stroke-blood-clots

 

[PetraG]

The doctors dissect the numbers pretty well. Apparently 0.01% chance if dying if you are healthy.

Do you have any idea how many Americans don’t qualify as “healthy” when it comes to COVID-19?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-higher-risk.html
*People over 65

• People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma
• People who have serious heart conditions
• People who are immunocompromised
  • Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications
• People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher)
• People with diabetes
• People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis
• People with liver disease

That list has been estimated to include about 92 million Americans. If my memory serves correctly, people with multiple risk factors number in the neighborhood of 11 million.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...severe-covid-19-illness-4-things-to-know.html

 

[PetraG]

How long can they keep us all locked up? They need to be able to use trails.

Our state is looking at ways to open up the trails and have another try in the next week or two. Yes, people need to be able to get out and exercise, and if people will follow some rather non-onerous rules, it can be done without an unreasonable increase in risk over that posed by the activities necessary for life (that is, compared to the exposure involved with grocery shopping, etc).

I don’t know about you, but I have this feeling that anybody with a stockpile of plexiglass is doing a booming business about now. If I had a restaurant, I’d be considering whether I could afford to get a whole mess of it to put between the tables, I know that. Even when the pandemic dies down, a lot of people will still want to stay away from whatever disease comes through next.

 

[gam197]

Do you have any idea how many Americans don’t qualify as “healthy” when it comes to COVID-19?

Do you realize how many people are healthy?

Our state is looking at ways to open up the trails and have another try in the next week or two. Yes, people need to be able to get out and exercise, and if people will follow some rather non-onerous rules, it can be done without an unreasonable increase in risk over that posed by the activities necessary for life (that is, compared to the exposure involved with grocery shopping, etc).

Constant fear mongering. Can’t even take a hike.

 

[PetraG]

Constant fear mongering. Can’t even take a hike.

We can take hikes now.

 

[Thorolfr]

PetraG:

Do you have any idea how many Americans don’t qualify as “healthy” when it comes to COVID-19?

Do you realize how many people are healthy?

There are also a number of supposedly healthy individuals who have nevertheless died from COVID-19, including some who have had strokes. Broadway actor Nick Cordero who is only 41 had to have his leg amputated because of blood clots caused by the virus. Who knows how many people who had “mild symptoms” might nevertheless end up having a stroke or a heart attack from blood clots.

 

[Maximus1]

Looks like they can’t keep people out of harm’s way must longer. Amity must open for the summer and that means swimming with the shark.

 

[gam197]

There are also a number of supposedly healthy individuals who have nevertheless died from COVID-19, including some who have had strokes. Broadway actor Nick Cordero who is only 41 had to have his leg amputated because of blood clots caused by the virus.

Always the exception. People need to get outdoors and these areas are low risk. There are a lot of rural areas in NE. Can you close off the White Mountain forever. Can you closed all the beaches, Cape Cod, Newport RI, Hampton and prevent boating. Can’t even take your own kids in a boat.

No common sense.

 

[Thorolfr]

Always the exception. People need to get outdoors and these areas are low risk. There are a lot of rural areas in NE. Can you close off the White Mountain forever. Can you closed all the beaches, Cape Cod, Newport RI, Hampton and prevent boating. Can’t even take your own kids in a boat.

No common sense.

I didn’t know that it’s not possible to get outdoors in most places. It’s possible, for example, to walk or jog in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco as long as social distancing is observed. I walked through the park there recently on a sunny day. But I did practice social distancing and was wearing a face mask.