Does anyone here really believe that the Pope is the AntiChrist?

[NotTooSmart]

If so, ARE YOU SERIOUS!

Okay, now that my initial shock has subsided, please tell me why you believe the Pope is the AntiChrist?

Is there any historical or Biblical evidence or any quotes from the Early Church Christians to back up your belief that the Pope is the AntiChrist?

If you were shown evidence, including historical, Biblical and quotes from the Early Church Christians which clearly proves that the Pope is NOT the AntiChrist, would you be will to study it with an open mind?

Is there anything that could change your mind on your belief?

(Please no bashing anyone on this forum. I would like to see an honest exchange of reasons for belief.)

Just to explain to help you better understand this.

There have been two senses in which I have heard the Pope connected to AntiChrist.

The first is in the sense of 2 Thess. Chaper 2 where in the end times the pope is the antichrist of the end times who leads the world against Christ.

This is a highly speculative perspective to say the least. The only support I have read is stuff like the seven hills in Revelation and Rome has seven hills. In other words support that doesn’t prove a blessed thing.

The other sense is that the Pope is an AntiChrist is in the 1 John sense, or more specifically that the papacy is an AntiChrist office.

The folks that hold this position basically believe that Catholicism at its heart is not Christian.

The problem here is that I have yet to hear a defense of this position that makes sense. The problems I have encountered is:

• Misunderstanding Catholicism (telling you all what you believe which is a violation of the Golden rule). To be fair sometimes you are your own worst enemy on this though…
• Promoting nonEssential doctrines to the level of essential.
• Inconsistent criteria (using criteria that excludes you that also would exclude other Protestants that aren’t excluded).

So unless and until I come across a cohesive explanation that makes sense and doesn’t contain one or more of the above problems, (I doubt if one is available but who knows) the worst that you can logically be (from a nonCatholic perspective) is another Christian denomination that is wrong on certain things.

But the minute you are upgraded to this level, your pope can not be an AntiChrist unless one wants to say the leader of every denomination other than your own is also an AntiChrist.

 

[geometer]

I have not been keeping up with the thread, but has anyone mentioned that Benedictus when expressed in greek letters adds up to six-hundred sixty-six?

 

[geometer]

During the Reformation, Martin Luther noted that “Benediktos” added up to 666
in Greek gematria, and he thought it might refer to a Pope named Benedict or to
Benedictine monks.

Β ε ν ε δ ι κ τ ο σς TOTAL
2 5 50 5 4 10 20 300 70 200 666

This was copied from wikipedia.

Number of the Beast

 

[wisdomseeker]

During the Reformation, Martin Luther noted that “Benediktos” added up to 666
in Greek gematria, and he thought it might refer to a Pope named Benedict or to
Benedictine monks.

Β ε ν ε δ ι κ τ ο σς TOTAL
2 5 50 5 4 10 20 300 70 200 666

This was copied from wikipedia.

Number of the Beast

that is funny.

 

[geometer]

that is funny.

Well, it should be a happy thing, if it leads to the return of the Messiah to Israel…

Don’t forget to wear a hat.:tiphat:

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Sorry, SingleMomMonica but I’m pretty certain that this is a banned topic. So you might want to ask a moderator whether such a thread is viable? God bless.

It’s banned ? That’s useful to know ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Where do you come off saying JP2 is the worst pope, have you not seen all that he has done to bring down communism, or how he has spurred on the youth to take up their crosses (he’s the one who taught of creating World Youth Day), or how ecumenical he was in reaching out to others, or how he wrote wonderful encyclicals on human sexuality . . . etc. Man I’m starting to think you are possibly the most self-loathing Catholic I’ve come across. God bless.

Psychiatry from a distance - for free ? Thank you ​

His ecumenism is the problem. A rapist who gives to charity is still a criminal. So - it does not matter how much good JP2 did, because he also did a great deal of harm. I’m not complaining because of any good he did, but because of the evil.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Please explain

See post 66​

 

[josie_L]

Psychiatry from a distance - for free ? Thank you ​

His ecumenism is the problem. A rapist who gives to charity is still a criminal. So - it does not matter how much good JP2 did, because he also did a great deal of harm. I’m not complaining because of any good he did, but because of the evil.

Have you ever read your posts? I don’t think (since I’ve been here) I’ve ever heard you say one nice thing about the CC (and if you did it’s lost in a sea of criticism and pessimism).

p.s. This one is for free as well, but the next one you’ll have to pay.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Psychiatry from a distance - for free ? Thank you ​

His ecumenism is the problem. A rapist who gives to charity is still a criminal. So - it does not matter how much good JP2 did, because he also did a great deal of harm. I’m not complaining because of any good he did, but because of the evil.

I do not have a dog in this fight but please tell me what evil JP2 Please I can wait

 

[Javl]

Psychiatry from a distance - for free ? Thank you ​

His ecumenism is the problem. A rapist who gives to charity is still a criminal. So - it does not matter how much good JP2 did, because he also did a great deal of harm. I’m not complaining because of any good he did, but because of the evil.

OK GofG. Please tell me what was the evil that JP2 did. Was it ecumenism? Was it his visit to a syangogue, or mosque, etc.? I’m wracking my brains ( ? ) and can’t come up with anything evil he done did. Tanks.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[jpaul1953]

There will be an unholy trinity…the father(satan); the son(anti-christ…indwelled by satan.) and spirit (the false prophet)

everything lucifer has done is but a poor imitation of God.

The anti-chrsit and the false prophet are two different men.

*Dear Doxiemom,

Do you believe in the Rapture, Biblical prohecy, and the prophecies of a self-proclaimed Biblical prophet or is this being brought up for argument sake only?

Pentecostals believe that all who have died are dead until Judgment Day, except Jesus. This means that they don’t believe it possible that our Blessed Mother has ever appeared on earth. She is dead.

Islam venerates the Blessed Mother but falls short of accepting her son, Jesus, as the Son of God. Islam accepts that Jesus was a failed prophet and that our New Testament is but a shadow of the original text with added stories of miracles, raising people from the dead, dying on the cross and resurrecting from the dead.

Pentecostals do not share much more of our Catholic faith outside of who Jesus is. They don’t accept much if anything that we hold sacred.

Dale Carnegie, the original motivational speaker, said that to get someone’s attention you must agree with how they feel (like ‘draw them in with compliments’), then after you’ve got them listening, teach them the way you really feel. It’s like ‘baiting a fish’. This is how I see a Pentecostal agreeing with Catholics. If he agrees with us, we better watch out for what’s coming. If we don’t watch out, we will be like a fish on the hook- the next meal…

I am not trying to sound ‘offensive’. I am only acting ‘defensively’ against any and all non-Catholics who start out in agreement with us. I see my faith as I either I believe or I don’t. There is no middle ground. If I have questions with regards to my faith, I dig deeper into my faith to find out why we teach certain questionable doctrines.

There are many silent people out there who do believe that someday one of the Popes will be the Anti-Pope of Biblical proportions. For some reasons, many people want to be in the ‘End Times’. I believe most people want to be part of something big for personal reasons. As a Catholic, Christians have been persecuted horrifically as many other people have been down through the ages. The non-Catholic belief in the Rapture saves all believers before the ‘Wrath of God’ comes. Throughout history persecution never seems to escape the Christian, just look at how most of the Apostles died.

Take care and hope you have a blessed day.

jpaul1953*

 

[jpaul1953]

Well, it should be a happy thing, if it leads to the return of the Messiah to Israel…

Don’t forget to wear a hat.:tiphat:

*Dear Geometer,

I am sure you are well aware of this but for those who aren’t. In numerology many words will add up to the infamous ‘666’, People tend to use the language that makes their point. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He referenced the Septuagint, which was written in Greek, many times. Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Roman languages all used letters for numbers, thank goodness for the Arabic number system that we use.

The CC states that ‘666’ has already had its claim to fame back during the lives of some of the Apostles. As Jesus mentioned some of you will be here when it happens. The CC states that after Nero burned Rome and made all believe that the followers of Jesus burnt the city down, the Roman soldiers came after the followers with a renewed hatred.

In Revelation, John was speaking about the destruction of the temple and the continuous persecution of the followers. He wrote with ‘Apocalyptic Language’, using metaphors and some numerology to avoid those who are not followers from understanding what is written. He wrote in esoteric terms to protect himself and the followers. Based on what I learned about this, Nero is ‘666’ and all those carrying the mark of the beast are the soldiers of Rome. Using the same method, Jesus’ name equals 888, not that this means anything. I’m not exactly sure if the language used to determine the numbers was Aramaic or Hebrew, but I think Nero in Greek is ‘646’.

This is why the Church claims that the Book of Revelations was written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. I believe this to be the reason that all non-Catholics are taught that Revelations was written after 70 AD (some say around 90 AD to nullify the CC’s teaching on this subject.

If the Church has the wrong year and the others are right then the infamous ‘666’ is still a threat, initiating the desire for a Rapture and all the Biblical prophecies going on. The Rapture and the Prophecies have turned into a multi-million dollar business. How could the non-Catholics ever accept the Church’s teachings on it now!

Hope you have a blessed day.

jpaul1953*

 

[wisdomseeker]

*Dear Geometer,

I am sure you are well aware of this but for those who aren’t. In numerology many words will add up to the infamous ‘666’, People tend to use the language that makes their point. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He referenced the Septuagint, which was written in Greek, many times. Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Roman languages all used letters for numbers, thank goodness for the Arabic number system that we use.

The CC states that ‘666’ has already had its claim to fame back during the lives of some of the Apostles. As Jesus mentioned some of you will be here when it happens. The CC states that after Nero burned Rome and made all believe that the followers of Jesus burnt the city down, the Roman soldiers came after the followers with a renewed hatred.

In Revelation, John was speaking about the destruction of the temple and the continuous persecution of the followers. He wrote with ‘Apocalyptic Language’, using metaphors and some numerology to avoid those who are not followers from understanding what is written. He wrote in esoteric terms to protect himself and the followers. Based on what I learned about this, Nero is ‘666’ and all those carrying the mark of the beast are the soldiers of Rome. Using the same method, Jesus’ name equals 888, not that this means anything. I’m not exactly sure if the language used to determine the numbers was Aramaic or Hebrew, but I think Nero in Greek is ‘646’.

This is why the Church claims that the Book of Revelations was written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. I believe this to be the reason that all non-Catholics are taught that Revelations was written after 70 AD (some say around 90 AD to nullify the CC’s teaching on this subject.

If the Church has the wrong year and the others are right then the infamous ‘666’ is still a threat, initiating the desire for a Rapture and all the Biblical prophecies going on. The Rapture and the Prophecies have turned into a multi-million dollar business. How could the non-Catholics ever accept the Church’s teachings on it now!

Hope you have a blessed day.

jpaul1953*

well explained. i truly believe that this rapture thing was made up to intimidate and trap Catholics to become protestants. because as i understand and hear from these evangelicals is that they all are going to be raptured and Catholics are going to be left behind to suffer the tribulation. it has worked some, i have seen CCD teachers teaching Catholic children this concept of rapture. what a shame. Catholics must stay away from protestants teachings. i think the CC has much for us to learn. learn from the One who have the Truth and stop listen to other voices that does not believe what the Church teaches.

 

[4EverHis]

**No **the Pope is not and will not be the anti-christ or the beast or the false prophet… etc…

the gates of hell will not prevail right?

Rome (the city) may fall, in the last days, but not the Pope…

Doxiemom, I just wanted to tell you that imho I think it is best to stay away from the Protestant ‘prophesies’, and stick to what the Church has said even if a prophesy is from God, the person might be misinterpreting it based on their own beliefs. I used to read some of these prophesies from Pentecostals and I almost lost my faith. But then I found they were contradictory and sometimes foretold things that never happened. Perhaps the guy you read about, is a good Christian and is doing the best he can… but since he’s not in the Church, there may be parts of doctrine that he’s missing, and so his prophesies might be incomplete and misinterpreted. I personally think that you’re on to something about Islam being involved in the end times, but I really don’t believe that the Pope would be in league with the anti christ… the reason Mary is venerated in Islam, is perhaps so that she can lead some of the Muslims into the Church maybe her being venerated was not the work of the devil, but of God. (even though Islam in itself is false).

Also, you mention the Fatima apparitions… but the Fatima apparitions are approved by the Church! they are not demonic at all. And Mary at Fatima never talked about Islam. She talked about the Rosary and conversion and penance for sinners.

Concerning the St Malachy prophesies… some people use them to say that there is one more Pope left after Benedict, meaning that afterwards, there will only be false Popes. But I don’t think this is the case, because if you look at the prophesies, they don’t say that there the last Pope immeditately follows Benedict… there might be Popes in between.

here’s some info: catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
and notice how it talks about the last Pope: definitely NOT like he’s siding with the antichrist!! he’s actually portrayed as a great Pope, imo:
“In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.”

as for the rapture, I’m under the impression that it’s a new idea that originated in Protestantism, not in the early Church… so I’m extremely skeptical of it sorry

God bless

 

[wisdomseeker]

**No **the Pope is not and will not be the anti-christ or the beast or the false prophet… etc…

the gates of hell will not prevail right?

Rome (the city) may fall, in the last days, but not the Pope…

Doxiemom, I just wanted to tell you that imho I think it is best to stay away from the Protestant ‘prophesies’, and stick to what the Church has said even if a prophesy is from God, the person might be misinterpreting it based on their own beliefs. I used to read some of these prophesies from Pentecostals and I almost lost my faith. But then I found they were contradictory and sometimes foretold things that never happened. Perhaps the guy you read about, is a good Christian and is doing the best he can… but since he’s not in the Church, there may be parts of doctrine that he’s missing, and so his prophesies might be incomplete and misinterpreted. I personally think that you’re on to something about Islam being involved in the end times, but I really don’t believe that the Pope would be in league with the anti christ… the reason Mary is venerated in Islam, is perhaps so that she can lead some of the Muslims into the Church maybe her being venerated was not the work of the devil, but of God. (even though Islam in itself is false).

Also, you mention the Fatima apparitions… but the Fatima apparitions are approved by the Church! they are not demonic at all. And Mary at Fatima never talked about Islam. She talked about the Rosary and conversion and penance for sinners.

Concerning the St Malachy prophesies… some people use them to say that there is one more Pope left after Benedict, meaning that afterwards, there will only be false Popes. But I don’t think this is the case, because if you look at the prophesies, they don’t say that there the last Pope immeditately follows Benedict… there might be Popes in between.

here’s some info: catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
and notice how it talks about the last Pope: definitely NOT like he’s siding with the antichrist!! he’s actually portrayed as a great Pope, imo:
“In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.”

as for the rapture, I’m under the impression that it’s a new idea that originated in Protestantism, not in the early Church… so I’m extremely skeptical of it sorry

God bless

this prophecy, i understood as if Benedict would be the last or the next to the last pope then the end would come.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I do not have a dog in this fight but please tell me what evil JP2 Please I can wait

It over 24 hr. and I,m still waiting,WHAT WAS THE EVIL JP@ DID

 

[allhers]

…

His ecumenism is the problem. A rapist who gives to charity is still a criminal. So - it does not matter how much good JP2 did, because he also did a great deal of harm. I’m not complaining because of any good he did, but because of the evil.

May I ask what it is about ecumenism that makes you believe it was some evil committed by him? Seriously, if you are going to lay a charge against someone, at least be clear about it, as it stands it sounds like you personally believe that ecumenism is evil and thats about it. Doesn’t make much sense. If you are speaking specifically about something, could you at least clue the rest of us in?

Obviously you’d rather remain in the dark, and that only tells us that you probably have some misunderstanding that you are holding on to.

 

[4EverHis]

this prophecy, i understood as if Benedict would be the last or the next to the last pope then the end would come.

it says Benedict would be the next to the last Pope… but the thing is, the numbers for the different Popes were added later, so we don’t know if the last Pope would be right after Benedict…

I’m not sure who knows! I also heard that the last Pope was only added later on… I don’t know if that’s true.

In any case, I don’t think he would be with the anti christ, because he’s described as a good Pope, who will lead the Church amid tribulations, and then Rome (the city) will be destroyed and the end will come. We don’t really know the day this would happen though, as Christ said.

God bless

 

[Doxiemom]

Thank you for the advise. I know that you are being sincere.

As I am.

Since this whole discussion is on a subject that is outside the infallible dogma of the Roman Catholic Church, there is no sin in searching for understanding of Scripture.

And in searching for understanding, rather than just 'accepting" without any depth to that understanding, it has made me all the more closer to Christ. Not through Mary, not through any sacrament, not through Mass(and i say this without diminishing their value). It is an amazingly hard and wonderful journey that i will never complete in this life.

Scripture can be both allegorical and literal at the same time. Prophecy can be for more than one incident at the same time. The layers are many.

I am not looking for an escape in a “rapture”. But i do think it wise to live as if that trump is sounded and we could be caught up, in a twinkling of an eye in the next five seconds. I pray I am worthy. All the while living as if Jesus could set His foot down on the Mount of Olives tomorrow. Or a thousand years after i die. No one knows but the Father.

Jesus Himself made it clear: there will be terrible days before He comes again. The birth pains will increase, not a peace that will gently come. Do not be naive.

I am a defender of my church. But I cannot close my eyes to the fact that not all within the church are without an objective that has its roots not in God, but in Evil. To think otherwise is to deny that Satan is real.

May God protect Pope benedict XVI from the Destroyer. But prophecy of Scripture is yet to be completely fulfilled.

Perhaps this is not how you desire to be catholic. But this is seeking Christ and His Second Coming. And as far as i know, this is very catholic.