Does anyone here really believe that the Pope is the AntiChrist?

[dianaiad]

If so, ARE YOU SERIOUS!

Okay, now that my initial shock has subsided, please tell me why you believe the Pope is the AntiChrist?

Is there any historical or Biblical evidence or any quotes from the Early Church Christians to back up your belief that the Pope is the AntiChrist?

If you were shown evidence, including historical, Biblical and quotes from the Early Church Christians which clearly proves that the Pope is NOT the AntiChrist, would you be will to study it with an open mind?

Is there anything that could change your mind on your belief?

(Please no bashing anyone on this forum. I would like to see an honest exchange of reasons for belief.)

uhmn…

no?

But gee, why does it surprise you that someone does? I mean, it’s not like the anti’s don’t say assinine stuff like that all the time. Accuracy is not their friend.

 

[fish90]

Well, Scripture does teach that the Roman Church (whose bishop is the Pope) will crush Satan.

“Then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet” (Rom. 16:20)

However, if the Pope is the anti-christ, it follows the Roman Church must be the anti-church!

But if the anti-church, how explain Scripture’s:

a. praise for it (Rom 1:8)?

b. teaching it will crush Satan’s head?

Such would make no sense. Go back and read my post again. See if you don’t agree.

God bless.

Thank you for the clarification.

God Bless

 

[jpaul1953]

Thank you for the advise. I know that you are being sincere.

As I am.

Since this whole discussion is on a subject that is outside the infallible dogma of the Roman Catholic Church, there is no sin in searching for understanding of Scripture.

And in searching for understanding, rather than just 'accepting" without any depth to that understanding, it has made me all the more closer to Christ. Not through Mary, not through any sacrament, not through Mass(and i say this without diminishing their value). It is an amazingly hard and wonderful journey that i will never complete in this life.

Scripture can be both allegorical and literal at the same time. Prophecy can be for more than one incident at the same time. The layers are many.

I am not looking for an escape in a “rapture”. But i do think it wise to live as if that trump is sounded and we could be caught up, in a twinkling of an eye in the next five seconds. I pray I am worthy. All the while living as if Jesus could set His foot down on the Mount of Olives tomorrow. Or a thousand years after i die. No one knows but the Father.

Jesus Himself made it clear: there will be terrible days before He comes again. The birth pains will increase, not a peace that will gently come. Do not be naive.

I am a defender of my church. But I cannot close my eyes to the fact that not all within the church are without an objective that has its roots not in God, but in Evil. To think otherwise is to deny that Satan is real.

May God protect Pope benedict XVI from the Destroyer. But prophecy of Scripture is yet to be completely fulfilled.

Perhaps this is not how you desire to be catholic. But this is seeking Christ and His Second Coming. And as far as i know, this is very catholic.

*Doxiemom,

There is no Catholic Biblical Prophecy outside of Jesus will come again and be ready in case you die before He comes again. All that stuff is Protestant, at most, based on their disagreement with the Church on when Revelations was written. The Catholic Church says b4 70 AD, the Protestants say around 90 AD. Their belief automatically causes the desire for Biblical Prophecy, which remains a non-entity with the Church. If you choose to look at Jesus outside of His Sacraments you are buyng into the Protestant beliefs. Your choice, your life. You are on your way to becoming an Evangelical. Have a nice trip.

BTW, Darby, an Englishman, bought into some girl’s dream that she had claiming that Jesus would come back first to save the believers from the Wrath of God. A young girl’s dream, fearful of the Wrath of God, coming to a nice ending because that’s where her dream took her. The English didn’t fall for it. So he came to America with an elaborate layout of his Biblical Prohecies. The Protestant took it, hook - line - and sinker. The Catholics stay true to the bible that Jesus would have only one Second Coming, not a third coming to then call justice onto this evil world.

Look at the money and power made by the few who have capitalized on the “rapture option”. They sure paint a pretty picture for the followers. Why wouldn’t people believe it. It sounds necessary. Why would God expect us to suffer. We are not at fault for doing wrong. It’s the Devil’s fault. Yeh, if you want to believe that we are such angels, deserving only of God’s miraculous love, look at the world around us today. We are not promised a pain-free life, just the strength to deal with it. Through suffering, we come to Christ. Look at all the Post-911 church-goers. Where are they now since things got comfortable again? They’re not filling the churches anymore.

Take care.

jpaul1953*

 

[slyboots]

It over 24 hr. and I,m still waiting,WHAT WAS THE EVIL JP@ DID

I bet it was kissing a Koran.

Hard for a guy who was likely to be a saint to be evil I think.

 

[fbl9]

I bet it was kissing a Koran.

Hard for a guy who was likely to be a saint to be evil I think.

This was done (in my opinion) as a gesture of peace,John Paul2 did not kiss the Koran because he loved it…

There are other things JP2 did that, imop ,are questionable,for a list one could read the book “EWNT a network gone wrong.” no this is not a plug for this book.

 

[wes144]

Ditto that

Anti means against or in place of. Vicar means in place of. Vicar of Christ = Vicariously Deity.

The Title on the Pope’s triple crown is Vicarious Fili Dei. I heard an announcer proclaim on EWTN “Isn’t it wonderful that we have a sweet Christ on the earth in John Paul II!”

By the way, Vicarious Fili Dei in Roman numerals and 2 other numeral series comes to 666!

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Another point and worthy of examination is the Papacy claims that proof of their divine authority comes from being able to change God’s Commandments without any authority from Heaven. That’s why there are protestants; those that protest against the infallibility of a man that does not speak according to the Law and the Testimony because there is no light in him. Isaiah 8:20

 

[dianaiad]

Anti means against or in place of. Vicar means in place of. Vicar of Christ = Vicariously Deity.

The Title on the Pope’s triple crown is Vicarious Fili Dei. I heard an announcer proclaim on EWTN “Isn’t it wonderful that we have a sweet Christ on the earth in John Paul II!”

By the way, Vicarious Fili Dei in Roman numerals and 2 other numeral series comes to 666!

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Another point and worthy of examination is the Papacy claims that proof of their divine authority comes from being able to change God’s Commandments without any authority from Heaven. That’s why there are protestants; those that protest against the infallibility of a man that does not speak according to the Law and the Testimony because there is no light in him. Isaiah 8:20

Oh, this is…I’ll bet you think that the Proctor and Gamble logo is full of 666’s, too.

 

[wes144]

Not at this time, I think all the inbacile (It is spelled imbecile) are in bed by now DD and Hisalone are the only ones I can think of that believe the pope is the Anti-Christ and may be some one from the SDA, do you think we have a few more ignoramus that think Or Pope is the AntiChrist, DA I do not not think so.

Not thinking maybe your problem. The other one is testing what people say by the Word of God that liveth and abideth forever. 1Peter 1:18-25

There are many millions of Protestants that are in churches founded by reformers like Martin Luther, John Wesley, John Calvin, John Huss, Zwingli, and many others that all taught the Pope was an anti-christ and the Beast power of Revelation 13 was the Roman Catholic Church. Do your own homework and ask the real Vicar of Christ to guide you into all truth=the Holy Spirit! John 16:13

 

[wes144]

Oh, this is…I’ll bet you think that the Proctor and Gamble logo is full of 666’s, too.

A name or title or company that you can show as 666 in Roman numerals is not enough. They must fit all of the criteria. The false church sits on the 7 hills of Rome, persecutes the saints for hundreds of years and “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25 Only the Papacy fits all of the criteria to be the beast power of Revelation 13.

Don’t write it off so quickly, do your own homework and ask God to guide you. God Bless.

 

[Patrick_Cox]

A name or title or company that you can show as 666 in Roman numerals is not enough. They must fit all of the criteria. The false church sits on the 7 hills of Rome, persecutes the saints for hundreds of years and “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25 Only the Papacy fits all of the criteria to be the beast power of Revelation 13.

Don’t write it off so quickly, do your own homework and ask God to guide you. God Bless.

Hi Wes144

The 666 numerical argument has been dealt with in numerous other threads on this website. Depending on which language you use, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic etc and on your creativity, you can make all kinds of people, positions etc fit into the 666 beast! But in case you are not aware of it, has anyone ever told you that the most famous persecutor and slayer of the early Christians, namely the Emperor Nero, also has the letters of his name add up to 666? Note - this was the man who was slaying Christians right about the time Revelation was written… at a time when the early Christian Church was attempting to spread the faith and teachings of God. Nero was the head of the Roman Empire.

(As an aside, the Vatican does not sit on the seven hills of Rome - in fact, it barely sits on even 1 hill. Rome itself - this would sit on the 7 hills. Who was in charge of the whole of Rome which incorporated all 7 Hills? Well, the Emperor was, of course - and at the time when Christian persecution was at it’s worst, Nero was that Emperor!)

So what sounds more like a beast to you? A person who uses his power to slaughter masses of innocent Christians purely because they were followers of Christ, or a person who has dedicated his entire life to the praise and glory of God, who has won people for God all around the world and propagated messages of peace, love, faith and hope?

Respectfully Wes, think for yourself about this for a while… Remember: “You shall know them by their fruits”. Nero = death, the Pope = commitment to Jesus Christ our one and only Lord and Saviour.

Think for yourself…

God bless

Patrick

 

[raumzeitmc2]

Thank you for the clarification.

God Bless

Anytime!

 

[reteeks21]

Hi Wes144

The 666 numerical argument has been dealt with in numerous other threads on this website. Depending on which language you use, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic etc and on your creativity, you can make all kinds of people, positions etc fit into the 666 beast! But in case you are not aware of it, has anyone ever told you that the most famous persecutor and slayer of the early Christians, namely the Emperor Nero, also has the letters of his name add up to 666? Note - this was the man who was slaying Christians right about the time Revelation was written… at a time when the early Christian Church was attempting to spread the faith and teachings of God. Nero was the head of the Roman Empire.

(As an aside, the Vatican does not sit on the seven hills of Rome - in fact, it barely sits on even 1 hill. Rome itself - this would sit on the 7 hills. Who was in charge of the whole of Rome which incorporated all 7 Hills? Well, the Emperor was, of course - and at the time when Christian persecution was at it’s worst, Nero was that Emperor!)

So what sounds more like a beast to you? A person who uses his power to slaughter masses of innocent Christians purely because they were followers of Christ, or a person who has dedicated his entire life to the praise and glory of God, who has won people for God all around the world and propagated messages of peace, love, faith and hope?

Respectfully Wes, think for yourself about this for a while… Remember: “You shall know them by their fruits”. Nero = death, the Pope = commitment to Jesus Christ our one and only Lord and Saviour.

Think for yourself…

God bless

Patrick

Excellent points, and very well said. It is odd how people take a book of the Bible written to others (NOT us! It is FOR us) 2000 years ago and try to make it fit an agenda. We cannot understand Revelation without a proper historical view of eschatology, and those that subscribe to the RCC being the Whore of Babylon obviously don’t have intellectually honest view.

 

[pickguard1]

As far as an anti-pope, again, God would never let it happen. The Holy Spirit has spoken in the creation of the dogma of the Pope’s Infallibility. If there were some Pope who were about to proclaim a heresy under a circumstance where otherwise we would have to believe it to be infallible, God, in His Infinite Knowledge, would foresee this and strike the Pope dead. No, i am not inferring Pope John Paul I was any sort of heretic.

I think, maybe here you misunderstand the concept of an anti-pope. Historically all this means is someone who claims to be the pope when they’re actually not. This has happened a couple times in church history, and could very well happen in the future. As of right now, I think there is at least one person who claims to be pope and says that Benedict XVI and the past 4 popes weren’t real popes.

So if there is ever a pope in league with the forces of darkeness, we can be assured that he is not the real pope - so in essence, the pope can’t be the antichrist - for being diametrically opposed to Christ’s Church, it is not possible to be the head of the same body, because that head cannot lead the faithful into error, which a so called anti-pope (in the sense that is used prophetically) would be trying to do.

 

[wisdomseeker]

it says Benedict would be the next to the last Pope… but the thing is, the numbers for the different Popes were added later, so we don’t know if the last Pope would be right after Benedict…

I’m not sure who knows! I also heard that the last Pope was only added later on… I don’t know if that’s true.

In any case, I don’t think he would be with the anti christ, because he’s described as a good Pope, who will lead the Church amid tribulations, and then Rome (the city) will be destroyed and the end will come. We don’t really know the day this would happen though, as Christ said.

God bless

Rome has already been distroyed? has it not? that happened when Christians took over the City during Constantine times. at least i believe that is what this prophecy has reffered to it.

i dont believe the anti Christ is going to be any pope. for we know the CC is not so attractive to the world. it seems that this last anti Christ is going to be someone that will be somewhat in something attractive to many, many people. this could not be the CC, since we know she so hated by many.

 

[SanctiDominici]

How about no?! In the bible it says hell will never prevail over the church so how is it possible that the devil or anti christ would be right in the church? Makes no sense. It only makes sense if your anti catholic. But you cant deny what the bible says and that is that satan will never take down the church.

Fraternities of St Dominic
St Joseph Province
USA

 

[wisdomseeker]

How about no?! In the bible it says hell will never prevail over the church so how is it possible that the devil or anti christ would be right in the church? Makes no sense. It only makes sense if your anti catholic. But you cant deny what the bible says and that is that satan will never take down the church.

Fraternities of St Dominic
St Joseph Province
USA

until people realize it is easier to believe in a lie than it is to believe in the Truth, they will not realize they need to be on guard for their souls at all times.

many protestants are always going to be against the CC because of their beliefs on the one world religion. they are terrified that if they join the CC, they will be part of the one world religion. if you know what i mean.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Anti means against or in place of. Vicar means in place of. Vicar of Christ = Vicariously Deity.

The Title on the Pope’s triple crown is Vicarious Fili Dei. I heard an announcer proclaim on EWTN “Isn’t it wonderful that we have a sweet Christ on the earth in John Paul II!”

By the way, Vicarious Fili Dei in Roman numerals and 2 other numeral series comes to 666!

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Another point and worthy of examination is the Papacy claims that proof of their divine authority comes from being able to change God’s Commandments without any authority from Heaven. That’s why there are protestants; those that protest against the infallibility of a man that does not speak according to the Law and the Testimony because there is no light in him. Isaiah 8:20

His title is the Vicar of Christ, not Vicar of the Son of God. That is an old Seventh Day Adventist lie. But Ellen Gould White does add up to 666

 

[Bill_Pick]

Anti means against or in place of. Vicar means in place of. Vicar of Christ = Vicariously Deity.

The Title on the Pope’s triple crown is Vicarious Fili Dei. I heard an announcer proclaim on EWTN “Isn’t it wonderful that we have a sweet Christ on the earth in John Paul II!”

By the way, Vicarious Fili Dei in Roman numerals and 2 other numeral series comes to 666!

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Another point and worthy of examination is the Papacy claims that proof of their divine authority comes from being able to change God’s Commandments without any authority from Heaven. That’s why there are protestants; those that protest against the infallibility of a man that does not speak according to the Law and the Testimony because there is no light in him. Isaiah 8:20

“”“By the way, Vicarious Fili Dei in Roman numerals and 2 other numeral series comes to 666!”"" Any one still using this has got to be the Biggest Bigot alive or a idiot and you are not a idiot

 

[wes144]

*Dear Geometer,

I am sure you are well aware of this but for those who aren’t. In numerology many words will add up to the infamous ‘666’, People tend to use the language that makes their point. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He referenced the Septuagint, which was written in Greek, many times. Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Roman languages all used letters for numbers, thank goodness for the Arabic number system that we use.

The CC states that ‘666’ has already had its claim to fame back during the lives of some of the Apostles. As Jesus mentioned some of you will be here when it happens. The CC states that after Nero burned Rome and made all believe that the followers of Jesus burnt the city down, the Roman soldiers came after the followers with a renewed hatred.

In Revelation, John was speaking about the destruction of the temple and the continuous persecution of the followers. He wrote with ‘Apocalyptic Language’, using metaphors and some numerology to avoid those who are not followers from understanding what is written. He wrote in esoteric terms to protect himself and the followers. Based on what I learned about this, Nero is ‘666’ and all those carrying the mark of the beast are the soldiers of Rome. Using the same method, Jesus’ name equals 888, not that this means anything. I’m not exactly sure if the language used to determine the numbers was Aramaic or Hebrew, but I think Nero in Greek is ‘646’.

This is why the Church claims that the Book of Revelations was written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. I believe this to be the reason that all non-Catholics are taught that Revelations was written after 70 AD (some say around 90 AD to nullify the CC’s teaching on this subject.

If the Church has the wrong year and the others are right then the infamous ‘666’ is still a threat, initiating the desire for a Rapture and all the Biblical prophecies going on. The Rapture and the Prophecies have turned into a multi-million dollar business. How could the non-Catholics ever accept the Church’s teachings on it now!

Hope you have a blessed day.

jpaul1953*

The “secret rapture” was created to be a face-saving device for the Roman Catholic Church.

Jesuit scholar Francisco Ribera foisted the idea of a “Secret Rapture” on the “Protestants” by proclaiming that the Pope couldn’t be the anti-Christ because he has not yet come. He claimed there was an unknown gap of time between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27.
Alcasar was the Jesuit that came up with the idea of Antiochus Epiphanes being the anti-Christ which also was to lead people’s thoughts away from the Protestants view.
J.N. Darby of the Plymouth Brethren was the first “Protestant” to swallow Ribera’s “Secret Rapture”. He passed it on to many others including Scofield which included the heretical doctrine in his Scofield Reference Bible.

FABER, GEORGE S.
A Dissertation on the Prophecies, That Have Been Fulfilled, Are Now Fulfilling, or Will Hereafter Be Fulfilled Relative to the Great Period of 1260 Years; The Papal and Mohammedan Apostacies; The Tyrannical Reign of Antichrist, or the Infidel Power; and the Restoration of the Jews (2 volumes, 1811)
Understanding the Reformation position on eschatology, as it is set forth in this work, gives us great insight into why the Romanists (i.e. the Jesuits in particular) were so intent on planting both Preterism (Alcasar, c. 1615) and Futurism (Ribera, c. 1585) among the Protestants.

After creating the false dispensational doctrine of the “Secret Rapture” the Roman church now says it is a false doctrine-listen to the Mother Church!

 

[Javl]

Wes144:

You’re way out in left field with your statements, in fact, you may not even be in the ball park. You tell us to do our home work, I think that you should recheck yours. Yes, we may have had some black popes, we admit that, but never has the CC ( magisterium )
ever gone against, or changed, any of the teachings of Christ. Yes, the CC has defined them in language suited to the times so that the faithful may better understand them.
But never have they been changed, and it cannot be proven otherwise.

The teachings of the CC are from both scripture and Divine Tradition as handed down from the Apostles.Everything within the CC has been instituted by Christ. To try to prove otherwise is an exercise in futility. Many have tried, even those that have vehently opposed the CC. All failed. They realized their error and became Catholics ( eg: Dr. Scott
Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Emile Zoli, etc. ). Please rethink you remarks and check first before
you comment. Meanwhile, God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem