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Lochias
Guest
So God is a liar?Well I have an easy time imagining being told that. Just a tough time imagining it being true.
Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?
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Lochias
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holyrood
Guest
Well said.
It is everybodyâs business because it impacts all of us.
I personally get a kick out of atheists coming on a Catholic forum and lecturing Catholics about what they may or may not, ought or ought not, post on a Catholic forum.
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OurLadyPray4US
Guest
I love the points you are making. I will use this logic when talking to Protestant Christians who are serious about doing Godâs will, and yet some of them are supporting gay marriage.
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EasterJoy
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You have had your concept of what tolerance and acceptance are mightily skewed.
Consider this parable:
The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him, but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, âThis man welcomes sinners and eats with them.â So to them he addressed this parable. âWhat man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it? And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, âRejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.â I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. Luke 15:1-7
Do you see that the Lord eats with sinners with the goal of turning them from their sin and reclaiming them for a life in God?
No one here is saying âdo it MY wayâ. The posters are saying âthe way we ought to go has been revealed to us, and has been known for thousands of years, from when the Lord himself was born and lived among us and died and rose and sent out those who have handed this on to us, to teach us these truths.â
No, it is the contemporary people who are saying, âForget those who went before us. What do they know? Why should we think the Lord taught them anything while he was here? No, I want to do it MY way, not THEIR way. I have the knowledge of good and evil, I am like the gods and can know my own way, so leave me alone.â
If such a one will not hear the Gospel, then sure, there is not much to be done except to shake their dust from our feet and hope that they will be ready to listen when someone comes after us. Here, though, on our own forum, we are bound to speak the truth to those who presumably come here to hear it. The people who come to Catholic Answers deserve to be treated with respect, yes, but they also deserve to hear the truth.
We have been commnded to love one another, but it was made clear that this includes not just a willingness to forgive, but a duty to admonish and correct one another:
He said to his disciples, âThings that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they occur. It would be better for him if a millstone were put around his neck and he be thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he wrongs you seven times in one day and returns to you seven times saying, âI am sorry,â you should forgive him*. Luke 17:1-4
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My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
If you think it is intolerance to correct or admonish a brother or sister in the Lord, if you think it is a lack of acceptance to call a sin what it is and to encourage others to turn from it, I am sorry, but you are simply in error. That is not what Christianity teaches, and it never has been.
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Chizzywinks
Guest
My son is gay, and stopped going to church several years ago because of the Churchâs stand on gays. I wish he wasnât gay, butâŚhe is. He canât change that anymore than I can change the color of my eyes. I donât want him to be alone for the rest of his life. I hope he finds a person (male or female) that loves and respects him and wants to be with him for the rest of his life. He shouldnât have to pay for his homosexuality by never having a loving partner and maybe one day, a family. In the eyes of the Church, itâs âokâ to be gay as long as you are celibate. Well, sorryâŚI donât wish a lifetime of that kind of loneliness on anyone. I am very tolerant. I am very accepting and supportive. I pray each day that God watch over my kids and family. God made my son the way he is and He knows whatâs in his heart.
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PRmerger
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There is no reason for you to leave the Church because your son is gay, any more than I need to leave the Church because my children are sinners, Chizzy.
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PRmerger
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Please remember, friend, that if there is a God, His Ways are not going to be our ways.
So if you are searching for a church that accepts all of your own personal beliefs about God, then you are creating a god after your own image.
Rather, you should join the Church that God established, and conform your views to this Church.
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Chizzywinks
Guest
How can I when I know my son is not accepted? Several of my thoughts and views differ greatly from the Church. I do not enjoy going to Mass. I because my youngest son is preparing for his First Holy Communion. I canât even go to Communion as I have been married 3 times, none in the Church and none of them âanulledâ. We switch off week to week going to my husbandâs Methodist church gasp! Oh, I am just a bad, bad personâŚwith a gay son whom she loves more than anything.
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PRmerger
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Of course he is accepted!
He is accepted as much as I am, a sinner, and my children, who are sinners, and my husband, who is a sinner!
However, just as an adulterer would be welcomed in the Church, Christ would tell him, âCome! But go and sin no more!â
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PRmerger
Guest
But, Chizzy, what you are doing then is creating a god who conforms to your own views.
Should you not find what God has revealed, and, rather than say, âNo, God, I donât believe that adultery is wrong. Sometimes, I believe it is just fine!â (Example only), say, âI accept that what You have revealed is Truth, and I will try to change my views to Yours, Dear Lord!â
But isnât the Church only stating what Jesus declared which is: if you divorce and remarry you have committed adultery.
Arenât those the words of Christ, Chizzy?
I am pretty sure youâre as bad as all of us in the pews.
We all love our children who are sinners. Youâre not any better for loving your gay son, nor any worse, for loving your gay son, than all the rest of us parents here.
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Chizzywinks
Guest
Come, but donât be gay anymore, right? Oh, but if you âchooseâ to stay gay, then you best plan on leading a celibate life. Sorry, but that is the last thing I want for my son. I want him to have a full and happy life, with a family one day.
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EasterJoy
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The Church does not teach you that you are a bad person. The Church teaches that loving someone is not the same as believing the person is incapable of serious violations of moral law. The Church teaches that it is a life-saving sort of wisdom to turn oneself from sin, even if one has fallen many times, and that it is a kindness to encourage others to turn from sin, as well.
What about all those crowds to whom St. John the Baptist and the Lord said, âRepent! The Kingdom of God is at hand!â Was it offensive for those two to have presumed that they were surrounded by âbad peopleâ who were living in violation of moral law? I cannot see how one can believe this to be so and still feel in need of the Gospel. If that is not the Good Newsâthat is, that the Lord died and rose again to redeem us from our sins, a Redemption without which we were without lifeâthen what is the Good News?
Honestly, I am surprised to hear that the Methodists do not teach that personal sin poses some barrier to a relationship with God. What do they teach about moral law? I ask this honestlyâdo they teach about sin, and if so, what?
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PRmerger
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No.
His sinful tendency is no more a barrier than my sinful tendencies are.
You wouldnât tell me, âCome to Mass, PR, but keep on wanting to spit in that womanâs face!â
Note: this is an analogy only. No one is stating that being gay IS THE SAME AS wanting to spit in someoneâs face.
No one ever died from never having sex, Chizzy. Not a single person. Ever.
Not to mention, there are millions of folks who are happy, fulfilled and delightful people who have never had sex.
Itâs not a requirement for happiness.
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EasterJoy
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I gather that you think it would have been a life of doom if your son had been a priest or a monastic, since a celibate cannot have âa full and happy life.â That would have been the last thing youâd want for your son?
How is he to have a family without having relations with a woman? By adopting? Why does he need a sexual partner in order to adopt a child? And if he or his lover have a child by a surrogate, as is becoming the fashion for homosexual couples, what happens to her? Your grandchild gets to grow up without his mother, by the design of his father and his fatherâs lover?
Donât you see any moral sticking points in that plan?
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Chizzywinks
Guest
God knows what I went through in my previous 2 marriages and he knows the joy I have in finally finding the right person. God knows what is in my heart. To me, the bottom line has always been the âGolden Ruleâ. I think if everyone tried to do unto others as they would have them do unto them, the world would be a MUCH better place.
Iâve always said that it doesnât matter what religion you are, as long as whatever it is you believe in God with all your heart. I do love God and I try to open my heart to hear what he has to tell me. When I go to mass, the only thing I feel is guilt.
Iâve always said that it doesnât matter what religion you are, as long as whatever it is you believe in God with all your heart. I do love God and I try to open my heart to hear what he has to tell me. When I go to mass, the only thing I feel is guilt.
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Chizzywinks
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True. But my son has told me he wants to have a child one day. He would probably adopt or have a surrogate. And he wants to do this with a partner.
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PRmerger
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Firstly, I am sorry that you went through some troubled times and am happy that you have now found happiness.
But I will tell you that the ONLY way you know that âGod knows what is inâ your heart is because the Catholic Church told you this.
Everything you know about God being love, Godâs forgiveness, Godâs mercyâŚcomes from the Catholic Church.
So if you believe that the CC got it right about God being merciful, why do you believe the CC got it wrong about divorce and re-marriage?
Arenât you just trying to pick and choose the teachings that make you feel comfortable, rather than really conforming yourself to what God has revealed?
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Chizzywinks
Guest
No. I donât.I gather that you think it would have been a life of doom if your son had been a priest or a monastic, since a celibate cannot have âa full and happy life.â That would have been the last thing youâd want for your son?
How is he to have a family without having relations with a woman? By adopting? Why does he need a sexual partner in order to adopt a child? And if he or his lover have a child by a surrogate, as is becoming the fashion for homosexual couples, what happens to her? Your grandchild gets to grow up without his mother, by the design of his father and his fatherâs lover?
Donât you see any moral sticking points in that plan?
And if my son had chosen the priesthood, I wouldâve been 100% supportive of that. But he does not want to be a priest. He does not want to be celibate.
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PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
Have you heard of the Rev. Fred Phelps, Chizzy?
His religion professes that God hates homosexuals.
He seems to believe this with all of his heart.
Are you really going to say that oneâs religion doesnât matter?
Well, guilt can be there for a reason. Unreasonable guilt is bad and unnecessary, but guilt can often be a good thing.
I donât know what the source of your guilt is. If itâs unreasonable, then stop feeling guilty! If itâs justified, then it ought to motivate you to change.
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