I believe you are affirming Catholic Teaching here!guanophore:
The prototype for this (OT/Judaism) speaks volumes.Unless a tradition and its people are walking in line with the truth and Spirit of Scripture, it is vain.
Could also be why tradition should not be separated ftom apostolic teaching
No…i meant it in a negative way for myself as in also the flip side, having a warning label against any negative pride for believing in Assumption.
By myself I am prejudiced against the Assumption because it is so Catholic and I am protestant.As a protestant i do not think about it or read about it in Scriptures or our traditions etc (really meant it when we are " busy " with other things spiritually, that indeed are more universal and transforming)
I am glad we can all be in agreement on this point.
Very true. The Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition are two strands from the same Source. They intertwine and complement one another.
Yes there is inappropriate pride in every religious community.
LOL. That seems like an odd reason. But at least you have identified the source of your prejudice, and there is something to be said for that!
Yes, but given the penchant of the early Christians to preserve the remains of the saints, it is beyond imagining that they would not have marked her grave or preserved her bones. We have the bones of Peter, Paul, Jude, and many other first century believers. How could the Mother of the Lord be exempted from this practice?
Such an outcome would presupposed that Jesus was unable or unwilling to keep His promise to guide the Church into all Truth.
Not if you stick to the biblical prototype of OT
Not meaning to be arguementive but I find it interesting that when it is suggested that some error or fallacy has affected the CC the tendency is to respond with the conclusion that you gave above. Is it not possible to be guided into all Truth and still be affected by error and fallacy by the weakness of human minds? For example, many non-Catholics have trouble believing the Catholic claim that the Church has never erred when they recall the slaughter and burning of their ancestors in centuries past. The answer given is that the Catholic Church never condoned those killings but that they were done by Catholics in positions of government. But it apeared that that there was temendous overlap in Church and government roles and practice. Also when history bears out that certain Popes were in fact evil and anti-Christ , even though they were the supreme ruler of the Church and the Vicar of Christ on earth, it is said that the Church was not tainted by these individuals. From the outside looking in, it is quite easy to understand why Catholics answer that way, but it is difficult to extend the thought of truth to the matter. As with any individual Christian, I believe the Holy Spirit directs and guides us into the fulness of Truth but how obedient we are in following is quite another story.mcq72:
I am glad we can all be in agreement on this point.
Where we may not be in agreement is how each one interprets the Scripture. There are as many interpretations as there are belly buttons!
Very true. The Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition are two strands from the same Source. They intertwine and complement one another.
Yes there is inappropriate pride in every religious community.
LOL.
Such an outcome would presupposed that Jesus was unable or unwilling to keep His promise to guide the Church into all Truth.
I agree, but Jesus gave His Spirit in a new way in the NT. There is an indwelling that the ancients did not enjoy. It is the divine elements of the Church that preserve her infallibility, not the human. The Church is incarnational, like Jesus, both human and divine.
Certainly, very possible. Humans are always affected by error, fallacy, and weakness. A good example is Peter on the roof waiting for his supper. God had to convince hi in a vision that the Gentiles were to come into the Church. The Holy Spirit has always worked this way with fallible humans. He finds one that will listen, and reveals the Truth, then uses that person or group of people to move the Church into Truth. Athanasius was such an example during the battle over Arianism. The majority of the Bishops had fallen into this heresy.
Yes, it is a very sad history. Yesterday I learned about how Catholics slaughtered some 2000 Protestants in Ireland in the 1600’s. But this kind of killing is not part of the Catholic teaching. Catholics sin like everyone else, and kill people in the name of God. This is not God’s will, and it is not the Teaching of the Church. The Truth is not defined by those who depart from it.
100% in many cases. This is also not the will of Christ, who was clear that His Kingdom is not of this world. The phrase “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” was first
I think that ever person who sins “taints” the Church. We, as members of His Body, can join His body to wrongdoing.
I think in this case you would agree that even if you sin, you do not undo the regeneration that has been brought about within you by the Holy Spirit.
That is for individual…we are talki g “magisteriums”
Yes, and this is how the HS works through the individuals - collectively. This is why decisions can still be infallible even if there are self centered or sinful persons involved.
Exactly, conditional…“when”
Correct, one per church…lol
You know Guano, I want to tell you something…I’m just saying, not that I am there yet…but if I ever feel led to be Catholic, I’d like to be one like you.Wannano:
100% in many cases. This is also not the will of Christ, who was clear that His Kingdom is not of this world. The phrase “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” was first
written about a Catholic Bishop.
I think that ever person who sins “taints” the Church. We, as members of His Body, can join His body to wrongdoing.
What we cannot do is taint the divine elements of the Church, especially the Holy Spirit who infallibly holds the teaching of the Apostles.
I think in this case you would agree that even if you sin, you do not undo the regeneration that has been brought about within you by the Holy Spirit.
One what?rcwitness:
Correct, one per church…lol
The human however must still be spiritual.
I think what you are saying is that, at some point, the Magesterium of the Catholic Church did not involve the Holy Spirit, and thereby went “off the rails”.
This is what enables the gift of infallibility to function.
The Church founded by the Apostles is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. This is why there is not “one per church”. There is only one Church.