Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

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steve-b said:
When someone knows about the Catholic Church, as it was said in the paragraph quoted, and then refuses to enter or to remain in it, (the Catholic Church) they could not be saved.”)
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Knows about it or KNOW it to be as it claims ?

That question is probably where we misunderstand each other seeing you didn’t get my question/statement.
 
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"To be Christian one must be Roman. One must recognize the oneness of Christ’s Church that is governed by one successor of the Prince of the Apostles who is the Bishop of Rome, Christ’s Vicar on earth”
-Pope Pius XII

“So long as the member was on the body, it lived; separated, it lost its life. Thus the man, so long as he lives on the body of the [Catholic] Church, he is a Christian; separated from her, he becomes a heretic”
-Pope Leo XIII

Those are just a few examples, but there are many, many more.
 
MichaelP3 said:
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steve-b:
When someone knows about the Catholic Church, as it was said in the paragraph quoted, and then refuses to enter or to remain in it, (the Catholic Church) they could not be saved.”)
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Knows about it or KNOW it to be as it claims ?

That question is probably where we misunderstand each other seeing you didn’t get my question/statement.
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I was referring to the following point (emphasis mine)
“I am content just knowing that God gave him (Billy G) the grace to understand our beliefs and teachings.” from lilypadrees. Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist - #64 by lilypadrees
 
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ChunkMonk said:
Those are just a few examples, but there are many, many more.
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Do you honestly believe that modern Protestants are even aware of such statements? And do you honestly reject the teaching of the Catechism in favor of such statements?
 
guanophore said:
Do you honestly believe that modern Protestants are even aware of such statements?
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I don’t see what that has to do with anything.
guanophore said:
And do you honestly reject the teaching of the Catechism in favor of such statements?
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Interesting question. I have the Popes saying one thing, and the Catechism saying something else. Are they reconcilable? On their face, it would seem like they aren’t, but maybe there’s a hidden meaning? So which one has the hidden meaning? Is it the Catechism or the Popes?

The Popes are infallible. The Catechism as a whole is not, though it does contain some infallible statements. Can the Catechism be incorrect about something?

I don’t know what to do about the apparent contradiction. I guess I have to side with tradition. Whatever is new is wrong, and whatever is what has always been held is right.
 
ChunkMonk said:
The Popes are infallible. The Catechism as a whole is not, though it does contain some infallible statements.
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So statements in the Catechism CAN be in error? I know I believe this but care to share it with other Catholics from time to time. That would be cool…
 
mcq72 said:
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steve-b:
If I don’t give you the truth, I am violating the virtue of charity. I would be withholding truth from you that you need to hear and know. That is NOT got ya on my part. If I deliberately withhold information from you that you need, then THAT comes back on me
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Totally agree…let everyone be fully persuaded in their faith…yet it is revealing…“narrow is the way”, and, " there is a way that seems right to every man but…"…
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Re: the narrow way

The narrow way is narrow for a reason. Jesus established one Church on Peter and those in union with him. All the means of salvation Jesus gave to His Church… the narrow road

The road that is wide, is the one where everyone else, those not on the narrow road, are persuaded that their way, their faith, is the right one…

Are BOTH persuaded in their beliefs? Yes. The problem is, only one road (the narrow road) leads to salvation.

As we both know, those are Not my words but from Jesus

The narrow Road…Few are saved
Matthew 7:13-14 , Mt 7:13-14 RSVCE - The Narrow Gate - “Enter by the - Bible Gateway

Jesus then doubles down on His answer
Luke 13:23-28 , Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway

Why are only a few saved?

Mt 24:12-14, Matthew 24:12-14 RSVCE - And because wickedness is multiplied, - Bible Gateway

How did Jesus qualify love for Him? He starts out with IF John 14:15 RSVCE - The Promise of the Holy Spirit - “If - Bible Gateway
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mcq72:
In my opinion and being frank and “responsible”, deominationalism, including the CC, is too broad of a gate ( and perhaps is not meant to be the “gate”, hence the misplaced “got ya’ s”)
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Keeping this out of the personal opinion realm, since my opinion means zip 😉

I’ve shown with proof properly referenced, That the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination. It is the original.

We can see then, that those in the denominational realm, each have to create a personal story to defend and justify themselves individually, as valid, AND for being a separated denomination, among 10’s of thousands of separated sects and denominations …

As one can see, going back to JESUS AND THE APOSTLES, from scripture, AND Tradition, that division from the original is condemned as are those who do it and / or keep it going.

I personally see my roll as one giving information properly referenced. What someone does with that information is their business. I’m not judged on being successful in convincing anyone. I say it that way because my opinions mean nothing, AND I also know, I can’t force anyone to make any specific decision. Besides, force would make what ever action came from it, invalid because free will would be violated. Free will is what ultimately makes us culpable good or bad, for the choices we make.
 
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MichaelP3 said:
So statements in the Catechism CAN be in error? I know I believe this but care to share it with other Catholics from time to time. That would be cool…
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The catechism is not inerrant or inspired, as are the Scriptures. It has been described as a “sure norm” for the faith.

The teaching of the Catechism about our separated brethren is part of that “sure norm”, as are the definitions of schism and heresy.
 
This is what I got when I clicked the link.

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The requested URL /system/sling/cqform/defaultlogin.html was not found on this server."
 
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guanophore said:
The catechism is not inerrant or inspired, as are the Scriptures. It has been described as a “sure norm” for the faith.
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This is actually very interesting and I never thought about it that way. Thank you.

I am now just wondering why I bothered spending 5 years studying it and using it as my bedtime reading material. It’s not even a sure thing for Catholics?

I want to say many more things but I should rather not.

Regards
 
Personal opinion that I realize won’t be popular. I think Protestantism appeals to some people because it’s a simpler version of (most) of the basic tenets and gets people closer to God that can’t grasp the deeper parts of Catholicism.
 
MichaelP3 said:
I am now just wondering why I bothered spending 5 years studying it and using it as my bedtime reading material. It’s not even a sure thing for Catholics?
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Perhaps you were moved by the Holy Spirit to learn about the faith?

I am not clear what you mean about “not even a sure thing”. What else is a “sure norm”? We are blessed to have this Catechism.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
I think Protestantism appeals to some people because it’s a simpler version of (most) of the basic tenets and gets people closer to God that can’t grasp the deeper parts of Catholicism.
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Perhaps. I sojourned for decades among my separated brethren because I did not know there WERE “deeper parts of Catholicism”. I grew up in a home where there was a form of religion, without the power thereof. I was yearning for a deeper walk with God. It was the Scriptures that drew me out of the CC. I never was encouraged or taught to read the Bible until I met some Baptists at school. I was spiritually starving, and thought I was not being “fed” in the CC. Needless to say, I did not grasp the meaning of Eucharist. By grace I studied and prayed my way back home, but God richly used those years in various non-Catholic ecclesial communities to build my faith.
 
I could see that. One thing Protestants do way better than Catholics is fellowships. I’ll give them that for sure.

I think the church needs to figure out a way to make catholic school more affordable for more Catholics, and teach the philosophy, history, etc. that makes the Catholic Church so deep to younger Catholics.
 
MichaelP3 said:
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guanophore:
The catechism is not inerrant or inspired, as are the Scriptures. It has been described as a “sure norm” for the faith.
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This is actually very interesting and I never thought about it that way. Thank you.

I am now just wondering why I bothered spending 5 years studying it and using it as my bedtime reading material. It’s not even a sure thing for Catholics?

I want to say many more things but I should rather not.

Regards
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Re: your questions

Here’s 48 well thought out questions on the Catechism. The questions are answered by the conference of bishops. http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...bout-the-catechism-of-the-catholic-church.cfm

with respect to your specific questions, maybe start reading from question #16. The CCC is a wonderful resource
 
guanophore said:
In order for “schismatic” and “heretic” to be applied, the accused must be aware.
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Aware of what?

I often hear this argument, bht the one time I was given “context” it was very unconvincing that the basic meaning of his statements had changed.
MichaelP3 said:
So statements in the Catechism CAN be in error? I know I believe this but care to share it with other Catholics from time to time. That would be cool…
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Well, only insofar as they were erronious before they were put in the Cathechism. Hypothetically speaking.
 
steve-b said:
The CCC is a wonderful resource
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I know. I have been through it numerous times. My copy looks like a university textbook with many many notes. Not just reading it but checking all the references.
 
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