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Aloysium
Guest
100%
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BobCatholic
Guest
This assumes we are 100% able to know what we are doing. We have 100% of the knowledge of the effects of our sin, and 100% knowledge of the reasons why it is a sin.
Based on your statement,
Adam & Eve knew that they would be kicked out of the Garden of Eden and condemn the rest of humanity to horrible suffering, pain, heartbreak, and other evils. They knew this in advance, and they did it with full purpose, without any sense of compunction. These two were 100% sadistic types who enjoyed knowing that 7 billion + people are suffering on a daily basis.
They committed a mortal sin and were unrepentant.
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Of course, I disagree.
A
Aloysium
Guest
They knew that God told them not to eat the fruit and they ate it anyway. !00% culpable.
Had they chosen differently because they knew the consequences, they still would not have chosen to love and trust God.
I give someone ten dollars because I am asked, is totally different than giving the ten dollars because the person is holding a gun.
B
BobCatholic
Guest
So they had 0% information yet they are 100% culpable. How is that just?
OK, so if Adam and Eve ate the fruit because they were stupid, or maybe they were naive (believe anything anyone tells them), or maybe the serpent was 50 feet tall and they were scared into doing it, that means they were 100% culpable, with zero mitigating circumstances.
To you, that is exactly the same as if they chose it on purpose. So you don’t make that distinction.
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Aloysium
Guest
They disobeyed their loving Creator.
What is your problem with that?
If they had not eaten the fruit because of fear, it would not have been love.
THIS IS ALL ABOUT LOVE!!
The Ten Commandments aren’t about consequences; they tell us in black and white how to express our love for God and one another.
Seriously!
K
Kevin_Keith
Guest
I’m pretty sure that I make enough bad choices and mistakes on my own that render any planned out Divine testing unnecessary! 
B
BobCatholic
Guest
OK.
I’ll give you a command. No explanation. No reasoning. Don’t think. Don’t speak. Just do it.
Is that a loving act from me? I’d say no.
Will you do it? I doubt it.
Where is the love in withholding that information? I’d say no love there.
This is not an emergency where Adam and Eve had to not do something in 5 seconds (i.e. take your hand off that hot stove!).
Maybe Adam and Eve were stupid, and didn’t ask the right question to God : Why would we die? What would happen? Didn’t God take that into account?
If the serpent was 50 feet tall being very intimidating, they had every right to fear. What else would you expect from weak humanity? They’re not supermen!
Where was God? Why didn’t he protect his children from the serpent?
An ordinary human parent would see their baby heading toward a snake and rush to pick him/her up. Why wouldn’t God do better than that? He loves FAR more!!!
Agreed!
It is all about love.
So why does God still hold us temporally responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve? How is that loving?
M
Mike_Dye
Guest
Life is a test, God accepts our free will decisions.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Yes if we come up short on the test, we sin. Fortunately we have a very forgiving God. Therefore we are allowed to fail many times, and hopefully learn along the way, so that by the time of our death we may be reconciled with God.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Life is a test.
Does God provide the means to pass the test?
Not when he hasn’t healed the concupiscence.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Are you really a Catholic?
Why do you think we repent and receive mercy? We are willful and wayward, but God is always there to welcome us back.
Free will is God’s gift to mankind. And it is a test what we choose to do with this gift.
D
davidv
Guest
Yes. It is called grace. It is available in great abundance, mainly through the Sacraments.
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tonyrey
Guest
God does **not **hold us temporally responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve:
405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
- How else do you explain the blood-stained history of the human race?
- Do you believe we are all isolated individuals totally unaffected by the sins of our ancestors and by the sins of others?
- Do you interpret every statement in the Old Testament literally? If so why?
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BobCatholic
Guest
Right, we keep falling. That’s concupiscence. We keep sinning.Are you really a Catholic?
Why do you think we repent and receive mercy? We are willful and wayward, but God is always there to welcome us back.
Yes, a gift that has a huge catch.
So where are you posting from?
Where am I posting from?
The answer to both is: NOT the Garden of Eden. That is because we are exiles from the Garden of Eden.
Since we are not allowed in the Garden of Eden, we are held temporally responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Yes but we should get better at not sinning, once we are aware of God’s grace and mercy. The urge to sin should become less and less, and the urge to be more like Jesus greater and greater.
B
BobCatholic
Guest
That requires God to heal the concupiscence. How to get that?
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tonyrey
Guest
B
BobCatholic
Guest
- Sin.
- We are held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors and others.
- No. Why should I?
- No.
WHY are we held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors, others and the sin of Adam and Eve?
We are NOT in the Garden of Eden! We are not in paradise!
You don’t have the answer why we are still being temporally punished.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Repentence, my friend. God will give you the stregnth.
J
joecap
Guest
You realize, of course, that when God tests us, He already knows how we will respond. Both good things and bad things that happen to us are tests, but they are for our benefit.
Do you imagine that God really didn’t know whether or not Abraham would sacrifice his son? The test was for Abraham’s benefit, so Abraham could find out if he ‘passed’ the test.
Do you imagine that God really didn’t know whether or not Abraham would sacrifice his son? The test was for Abraham’s benefit, so Abraham could find out if he ‘passed’ the test.
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