Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

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I read threads like this and it amazes me how so many people are so wrapped up in the promotion of their labels that they seem almost completely oblivious to the true heart of Jesus’ message of conversion. I know many who are members of the Catholic church and yet should pay attention to non-Catholics to learn a few things about Christ’s message and the teachings of the Catholic church. Jesus calls us to be born again in spirit and truth. That means embracing a fundamental shift in perception and response to the world, both seen and unseen, around us. If this truth is realized, the value of the teachings of the church are seen in a significantly different way and no longer seem hard or burdensome.

How often do we see those who do not understand this shift in character are rather promoting “official” membership as necessary to salvation. Is anyone who truly abides by the true message of Christ not a member of His church, no matter what the label is?

Sometimes, the more time I spend on this site, the less Catholic I feel myself to be.
 
My friend John Martignoni recently spoke on this very topic and has in fact released a free CD of this study that can be had from his apostolate’s website. Keep in mind that he is the director of evangelization for his diocese out of Birmingham, Alabama. 👍
Good evening. I want to start off tonight by asking you a question. A question that I hope will make you think a bit. I believe it to be a very, very important question. And please, don’t answer out loud, just think about it – here’s the question: Does God want everyone…to be Catholic? Think about that for a minute or two.
Does God want everyone to be Catholic? I am willing to bet, for many of you, that question has never ever entered your mind. But it needs to, because it is such an important question. The answer to that question will determine some very important things.
And, I know there are some folks here tonight who are not Catholic, and I don’t want to exclude you, so I want you to think about that question in terms of your faith tradition. Does God want everyone to be Baptist, or Evangelical, or Methodist, or Episcopalian, or whatever your particular faith tradition is?
So, even though I am focusing tonight on the Catholic Faith, because the majority of folks here tonight are Catholic, I invite you to focus that question on your particular faith tradition.
Now, why is this such an important question? Well, we can see why by examining the possible answers and seeing what ramifications each one of those answers holds. There are only two possible answers: “Yes,” God wants everyone to be Catholic; or, “No,” God does not want everyone to be Catholic.
First, let’s look at what it means to answer that question in the positive: Yes, God wants everyone to be Catholic. I believe, personally, the answer to that question is indeed, yes…I believe that God does indeed want everyone to be Catholic. That’s why I do what I do! And I think it is imperative that every Catholic should believe that. And, again, not to leave anyone out, I think it imperative that every Baptist, Methodist, Evangelical, etc. should believe that God wants everyone to be a member of their faith tradition.
Why?! Why do I say that? I say that, because truth matters. If you believe you have the truth, then wouldn’t God want everyone else to have that same truth? The Bible tells us that Jesus established a church. And what does the Bible tell us about the Church founded by Jesus Christ? In 1 Tim 3:15, the Bible tells us that this Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. In other words, it is the upholder and foundation of the truth. The Bible also tells us, in Ephesians 1:23, that this Church founded by Jesus Christ is the Body of Christ and is the “fullness of Him Who fills all in all.” The Church is the fullness of Jesus Christ – the Bible is very clear on that. And Jesus Christ says in John 14:6 that He is the truth. So, if the Church is the ful lness of Jesus Christ, as the Bible says, and Jesus Christ is the truth, as the Bible says, then the Church founded by Jesus Christ contains the fullness of the truth that has been given to us by Jesus Christ. Furthermore, the Bible tells us, in John 16:13, that Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, to guide His Church into all truth.
So, this Church that the Bible tells us was founded by Jesus Christ; this Church that the Bible tells us is the pillar and ground – the upholder and foundation – of the truth; this Church that the Bible tells us is the fullness of Jesus Christ – the fullness of the truth; this Church that the Bible tells us is guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit – the Spirit of Truth; this Church must teach us what?! Error?! No! This Church must teach us truth…it cannot teach us error. The Church founded by Jesus Christ must teach the truth…the fullness o f the truth. It cannot teach error!
Does God want everyone to be Catholic? As I just mentioned, the Church founded by Jesus Christ contains the fullness of the truth that He has made known to us about Himself. What does the Catholic Church claim about itself? Well, it claims that it contains the fullness of the truth given to us by Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us that the Church founded by Jesus Christ contains the fullness of the truth, and here is the Catholic Church claiming to contain the fullness of the truth, and claiming to have been founded directly by Jesus Christ. If whatever church you are in doesn’t at least claim these things for itself, then you have some thinking and praying to do.
And, as a Catholic, I believe what my Church teaches about itself. If I didn’t, why would I be Catholic? But, even if the Catholic Church is right, and it is the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and it does contain th e fullness of the truth as given to us by Jesus Christ, does that necessarily mean that God wants everyone to be Catholic? Well, in 1 Tim 2:4, the Bible says this, “God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” God DESIRES that all men come to the knowledge of the truth, the Bible tells us, and if the fullness of the truth resides in the Catholic Church, then it does indeed follow that God DESIRES all men to come to the Catholic Church, where the fullness of truth resides.
(Cont’d)
 
Now, do you understand the ramifications of answering, “Yes,” to the question of whether or not God wants everyone to be Catholic? If God wants everyone to be Catholic, so that they can share in the fullness of the truth that is Jesus Christ, what does that mean for you? It means you’ve got to get into the game, gentlemen! We can no longer be content wit h thinking something like, “Well, my son – or daughter, or brother or sister, etc. – is no longer Catholic, but it’s okay, because at least he’s still going to a Christian church.” No! Your son or daughter or whoever does not currently have the fullness of the truth. And Scripture says, in John 8:32, “And you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free!”
Your son no longer receives the Body of Christ in the Eucharist. And Scripture says, in John 6:54, “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life.” God wants your son to be Catholic…God wants your son to share in the fullness of the truth that is Jesus Christ…God wants your son to receive Him in the Eucharist. What are you going to do about it?!
And we can no longer be content with thinking about a friend or a co–worker, “You know, Jim’s a good guy, he loves the Lord, it doesn’t really matter if he’s not Catholic.” It doesn’t really matter if he doesn’t have the fullness of the truth? It doesn’t really matter if he doesn’t receive Christ in the Eucharist? It doesn’t really matter if he doesn’t receive the graces of the Sacrament of Reconciliation and of all the other Sacraments? If Jim is such a good guy without the fullness of the truth, imagine what kind of incredibly holy guy he could be with the fullness of truth! God wants Jim to be Catholic…God wants Jim to share in the fullness of the truth that is Jesus Christ…what are you going to do about it?!
The truth matters, gentlemen. And we need to respond accordingly. God is counting on us to spread the Word. God is counting on us to share the truths of the Catholic Faith with those around us.
This is why, if you are Baptist you should believe t hat God wants everyone to be Baptist. Or if you are Evangelical, you should believe that God wants everyone to be Evangelical. And the same is true no matter your particular faith tradition. Because the truth matters. Why are you Baptist? I assume you are Baptist because you believe the Baptist faith has the fullness of the truth. If it does, wouldn’t God want everyone to share in that truth? Why are you Evangelical? I assume it’s because you believe the Evangelical faith tradition has the fullness of the truth. If it does, wouldn’t God want everyone to share in that truth. The same is true whether you are Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian or whatever your particular faith tradition – if you believe it has the fullness of the truth, then you should believe that God wants everyone to share that same fullness of the truth.
Now, let’s look at the ramifications of answering in the negative: “No,” God does not want everyone to be Catholic. If you are a Catholic, and you answer, “No,” to that question, then you are, in essence, saying that truth doesn’t matter. Think about it. Your Church has the fullness of the truth given to us by Jesus Christ, but you don’t think it’s all that important that other people have that truth. As it says in John 8:32, “You will know the truth and nobody else really needs to.” No! “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” God wants everyone to know the truth and to be set free.
Or, maybe you believe the Catholic Church is wrong when it says that it contains the fullness of the truth. Maybe you believe your church could well be wrong here or there in some of its teachings. If that’s what you believe, then why are you Catholic? Why would you attend a church t hat you believe could be, and probably is, teaching error in one or more ways? If you believe the church you belong to – whether you’re Catholic, or Baptist, or Methodist, or Evangelical, or whatever – if you do not believe that your church has the fullness of the truth; or you believe that it could possibly be teaching error in one or more instances, then as I’ve just shown from the Bible, you do not belong to the Church founded by Jesus Christ, because the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit does not teach error, period! Jesus’ Church will not lead you astray…ever! Jesus’ Church is the pillar and ground of the truth! Jesus’ Church is the fullness of Jesus Christ Who is the Truth! Jesus’ Church is guided by the Spirit of Truth into all truth! Jesus’ Church does not teach error!
So, whether Catholic or not, if you believe the answer to the que stion, “Does God want everyone to be Catholic?” – or to be a member of your particular faith tradition – is “No,” then you have a lot of soul searching to do and a lot of praying to do, because you are in the wrong place and you need to go looking for that church that is the “fullness of Him Who fills all in all.”
This is why the question: Does God want everyone to be Catholic? Is such an important question. Whether your answer is, “Yes,” or “No,” it requires something of you. It requires you to leave your comfort zone and do something. Either to reach out with the truth to those around you if you answered “Yes,” or to go looking for that church that contains the fullness of the truth if you answer “No.” There has to be a church out there that contains the fullness of the truth. If your church isn’t it, then you need to start looking for t he church that is.
(Cont’d)
 
Now, let’s say that you’re convicted that the Catholic Church does indeed contain the fullness of the truth that is Jesus Christ and you believe that God wants everyone to be Catholic – what do you do? First of all, you pray. Then, you get to Confession. Then you start learning more about your faith. In other words, the first person you evangelize is yourself. And one of the best ways to do that is to get involved with a men’s group at your parish. If there isn’t already one, then start one. And, there is information in those books you’ve received about a men’s group – the Men of St. Joseph – that is a very easy type of group to start. Everything you need to start one of these groups can be found on the Men of St. Joseph website – menofstjoseph.com.
After you get hooked up with a men’s group at your parish, or even while you’r e in the process, start learning more about your faith and about how to talk about it and share it. Read that book by Curtis Martin that you have in your hands. Get some of the materials that Tim Staples has to offer at his table. Go to catholic.com to get more of his and other folks’ materials. Catholic.com – easy to remember. If you get the One Voice, read my Apologetics 101 column in there each week. Basic stuff that will set you on the right path. If you don’t get the One Voice, call your parish and tell them to sign you up. Go to my website: biblechristiansociety.com and order the talks I have there. They’re free, guys! If you order the CD’s, there’s a $1 shipping and handling charge per CD, but you can avoid even that by just mailing in your order. Or, just download the mp3 versions from the website – no cost whatsoever. These talks will help you learn more about your faith and how to share it. In particular, there’s a talk called, “Apologetics for the Scripturally–Challenged.” Start with that and see if you don’t quickly learn how much fun, and how spiritually–rewarding, sharing your faith can be.
I’ll close with this quote from St. John Chrysostom: “Zeal for the salvation of souls is of so great a merit before God that to give up all our goods to the poor or to spend our whole life in the exercises of all sorts of austerities cannot equal the merit of it. There is NO service more agreeable to God than this one. To employ life in this blessed labor is more pleasing to the Divine Majesty than to suffer martyrdom.” Zeal for the salvation of souls, gentlemen. God bless!
I believe John is quite right, when he says that if we really believe that the Catholic faith is the fullness of truth, then it’s only logical that we would believe that God wants everyone to be catholic and that we need to be about Our Father’s business of sharing our most holy faith with everyone we know.
 
I think God wants everyone to be Christian and to accept His Son as Lord and Savior. Denominations shouldn’t matter.
There are several things basically wrong with this.

First, that would mean that all have the same level of truth, and that cannot possibly be the case since they preach a widely divergent system of salvation and doctrines that do not agree even with each other though they all claim to be preaching the truth. St. Paul specifically tells us that God is not a god of such confusion. (See 1st Corinthians 14:33)

Second, the essential n-C “way of salvation” as preached by most of them is actually scripturally deficient and in reality does constitute “a different gospel.” For more information please see Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? from my blog.
 
The answer is yes. When Christ died, there were Jews then Christ created catholicism. Prodestants broke off one by one and started doing their own thing.
are you prodding some??
Sorry, just messin’ with ya…

( i could use some prodding…)

carry on…
 
I was agreeing that denominations shouldn’t matter. But they do.
Accepted. Remember though that Catholicism isn’t a denomination in the sense that that term is bandied about, or in the way that our friend up there meant her remark.

Her premise is that we just need to “get saved” and all is well, yet if you look at my article on the different gospel, you see that according to the Bible, that is an oversimplified and deficient message.👍

Oh, and the other good reason for being Catholic is that we need to go where we get fed. Why go to faith communities who feed milk when we can have the Eucharist and the fullness of the truth?
 
Accepted. Remember though that Catholicism isn’t a denomination in the sense that that term is bandied about, or in the way that our friend up there meant her remark.

Her premise is that we just need to “get saved” and all is well, yet if you look at my article on the different gospel, you see that according to the Bible, that is an oversimplified and deficient message.👍
gotcha

it is certainly a shame that there are soooo many denominations…
 
Oh, and the other good reason for being Catholic is that we need to go where we get fed. Why go to faith communities who feed milk when we can have the Eucharist and the fullness of the truth?
not disagreeing with you. The fullness of truth cannot be denied.
One has to be fully aware of it to deny it, though. One cannot deny that which is unknown or made unknown.
 
not disagreeing with you. The fullness of truth cannot be denied.
One has to be fully aware of it to deny it, though. One cannot deny that which is unknown or made unknown.
True. Which is again the reason that John Martignoni points out that we need to be much more into evangelization than we are. Just as Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ said “And he said to them: The harvest indeed is great, but the labourers are few. Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send labourers into his harvest” (Luke 10:2).
 
As we know
  • ignorance isn’t always innocent as fault isn’t always innocent. Especially when one takes little effort to find the truth.
  • May ≠ will, May ≠ probably, May might only be remote.
How can you accuse someone of not making effort to find the truth when they truly believe that the truth lies within their own beliefs and not within the Catholic Church?

And if they are genuinely believe that the fullness of truth does not lie within the Catholic Church then perhaps the fault lies with those of us whose duty it is to evangelise.

You cannot expect people to look for something if they truly believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have already found it.
 
… Is anyone who truly abides by the true message of Christ not a member of His church, no matter what the label is?

Sometimes, the more time I spend on this site, the less Catholic I feel myself to be.
And, what is the “true message of Christ” you speak of? And how, may I ask, does it differ from the message of the Catholic Church? Are you saying that one label as good as another? If you believe so, I can understand why you feel less Catholic.

If you don’t mind me answering my own question, there is but one message of Christ, and the Catholic Church speaks it without distortion, bent or twist. Catholics may not always live up to it, may not always fully appreciate it, may be negligent in implementing it, may not even resemble what it teaches them to be, but I can say without reservation that it has the true message in all its completeness unlike any of the others. Can we learn from others? I should hope so! Protestants and Orthodox, Jews and Muslims, I might add even Buddhists and Hindu, don’t all embrace the fullness of what Catholicism teaches, but in various aspects some adherents of each of these religions may be an example that all of us should emulate. We can all learn from people who show extraordinary gifts of love, compassion, courage, and holy living.

Does that mean that religion doesn’t matter? Certainly not! Even among Christians it matters greatly what is taught and what is believed. If it is difficult for a Catholic to work out his salvation, and I contend that it is (it was for Paul, and I doubt any of us can compare with his holiness), and if this is so with all the graces that the Catholic Church provides, the Holy Eucharist (unless you eat my body and drink my blood you cannot have life eternal); the sacrament of reconciliation allowing forgiveness with no more than imperfect contrition; the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the most perfect prayer; the rosary, the next most powerful prayer; Benedictions; Expositions; Novenas; clear and unequivocal guidance of a catechism, papal encyclicals, Church Council documents, and other Church documents; then don’t you think that those outside the Church are even more hard pressed to work out their salvation without all these extra helps?

I wish that all people were Catholic, because then everyone would have the same benefits that I have. I wish that all people were Catholic, because then they would not find it as easy to believe they are close to God when in reality they may be closer to the pit of hell. Even as a Catholic I have made that large an error in judgment. Christianity is no kid’s game. The stakes are life and death, and it has nothing to do with being a nice guy. Believe me, some of my atheist friends are nicer than I am, and is some ways, I think I should emulate their virtues. But I wouldn’t trade places with them for all the riches in the world. At least I feel I have a fighting chance to win the prize; for them, it is only up to the mercy of God, and those who are praying for them.

I do not like the idea that some people I talk with each day do not seem from outward appearances like they will make it to heaven. I do not like it that poor doctrine is leading some people away from heaven. I do not like it that heaven cries out for souls and I, thus far in my life, have done little to bring souls into the Kingdom. If you catch me fighting for my Catholic beliefs, it’s because I want everyone to have the best chance of attaining their eternal reward.

It’s not the early days of Christianity anymore. The devil has not sat idly by all these centuries. The seeds of confusion have been sown everywhere and the message has been trampled on, distorted, misrepresented, and maligned. My sheep hear my voice. It is my heartfelt conviction that His message is best carried over the worldwide loudspeaker system that we call the Catholic Church.

+Peace, et Deus tecum.
 
There are several things basically wrong with this.

First, that would mean that all have the same level of truth, and that cannot possibly be the case since they preach a widely divergent system of salvation and doctrines that do not agree even with each other though they all claim to be preaching the truth. St. Paul specifically tells us that God is not a god of such confusion. (See 1st Corinthians 14:33)

Second, the essential n-C “way of salvation” as preached by most of them is actually scripturally deficient and in reality does constitute “a different gospel.” For more information please see Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? from my blog.
Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

I can eliminate most every religion, but not quite all, with a single stone, which should be clearly apparent to anyone who is Catholic, John 6:53. bible.cc/john/6-53.htm The all encompassing stone, of course, is the guaranteed true and complete message of God.
 
I believe God wants us as one.

How, I do not know. I know it begins with love. We all know this. We do not all act upon this.

If He is asking me to be Catholic, for example, I cannot tell anymore. If He is, middle management is bucking it. I am fighting this tooth and nail, mind you. I am also fighting tooth and nail the disappointment and frustration that no one, no one, in person, is suggesting anything to overcome the issues. I am fending for myself and it’s not suppose to work that way.I do not understand, for the life of me, I do not.
I feel strongly that the CEO is a tad disappointed, too.
Think about it.
He says, “I love you. Come follow.”
I say, “Yes, please!”
Middle management says, “Whoa, now wait a minute…and a year…”
He says, “What really is the hold up? And since when do you supecede ME?”

This whole thing is giving me doubt now. So if God want us all to be Catholic, which could be fine by me, that would then rule me out, wouldn’t it?

Forgive me, but I was giving a lot of thought earlier. Oddly, just before going to Church, where I still go despite everything.
 
How can you accuse someone of not making effort to find the truth when they truly believe that the truth lies within their own beliefs and not within the Catholic Church?
I accuse no one. I merely quoted the Catechism. [1791 (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 1791)
B:
And if they are genuinely believe that the fullness of truth does not lie within the Catholic Church then perhaps the fault lies with those of us whose duty it is to evangelise.
Oh I agree. Nothing more unfortunate than a Catholic who doesn’t know their faith. One can’t share or teach what they don’t possess themselves…right?
B:
You cannot expect people to look for something if they truly believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have already found it.
Ignorance as I showed isn’t always innocent

When somebody asks who started our “church”
  • and the answer comes back Luther, or Calvin, or John Smyth, or Henry VIII, etc etc they know right there Jesus didn’t start their “church”. Strike 1.
  • And if they read scripture, it is crystal clear, division of any kind is not allowed in or from Our Lord’s Church. That’s strike 2.
  • If they don’t start to persue finding the truth at that point, and just stay where they are, that’s strike 3
 
I read threads like this and it amazes me how so many people are so wrapped up in the promotion of their labels that they seem almost completely oblivious to the true heart of Jesus’ message of conversion. I know many who are members of the Catholic church and yet should pay attention to non-Catholics to learn a few things about Christ’s message and the teachings of the Catholic church.
Whatever truth they gleen is gotten from the Catholic Church not their own sects. Catholics who don’t know their faith, that could be remedied if they take the time to study and learn from the storehouse of treasures the Church offers.
RB:
Jesus calls us to be born again in spirit and truth. That means embracing a fundamental shift in perception and response to the world, both seen and unseen, around us. If this truth is realized, the value of the teachings of the church are seen in a significantly different way and no longer seem hard or burdensome.
Given the amount of division from from Our Lord’s Church, the following is apparantly extremely hard and burdonsome for people to observe and obey.
John 17:20-23
How often do we see those who do not understand this shift in character are rather promoting “official” membership as necessary to salvation. Is anyone who truly abides by the true message of Christ not a member of His church, no matter what the label is?
If they truly abided in Christ they would be in His Church…the Catholic Church.

Otherwise why does the Holy Spirit inspire Paul to warn people that division from the Church Jesus is building is condemned. [Rom 16:17-20] & [Gal 5:19-21]. Obviously there is no such thing as seperate but equal.
 
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