As far as I can see, Reuben had come to this conclusion 'cos we have so many other threads discussing the problems in Islam, and seem no Muslim can address the problems. You can see those threads in this forum. Making same discussion here is fruitless and frankly speaking tiresome.
I guess that’s why it’s important to follow the right one.
How is the trinity against our innate nature? We aren’t a trinity. God is.
He Will Provide,
The concept that God exists as such is against our innate nature. No one in the world besides mainstream Christians believes in God to be such. However, it is universal (even among pagans) that there exists a Creator of the Universe. Of course, the fundamental bedrock of monotheism is that all acts of worship should go solely to that One Creator.
Define what you mean by “fallen nature.”
You are right that innocent people do pay the price for other’s sins. But in Islam the innocent people get credited for that against their own sins. Sometimes God will allow a bad thing to happen to an innocent person so that that innocent person will avoid punishment for something he/she has done in the afterlife. In Christianity it works totally the other way around. The guilty don’t pay for their sin. Their sin is paid for by the “perfect sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.” In Islam, the guilty do pay. That’s why the Islamic view of God conforms to our innate nature about justice as opposed to the Christian view which negates justice.
You’re the one who doesn’t understand the concept of justice and the concept of forgiveness in Christian. If Christians choose deliberately to make sins when they have already known that it’s against God’s will, then they are actually putting themselves in conflict with Him, then they have betrayed the love and forgiveness that God had given them, then they need to repent. But first of all they have to realize that they’re sinners, what are their sins, why they did it. They have to humble themselves in front of God to ask for His love and mercy. Then the sacrifice of Christ in cross will be needed for there are so many kinds of sins that will have no equal in paying back. Are you indicating that if one steal that one has to be amputated? Or if one falls into the adultery she or he’s to be stoned? Or if someone hurt someone, he’s to be hurt back? Are you saying that Muslim by observing the instruction of Koran are no sinners any more? It’s against the nature of human being not to sin. We all find flaws in our lives.
There is no “right” religion. All are wrong. But some are more right than others.
I’m sorry if I made a wrong statement. I’m not sure where I did, maybe if you could show me. But Muslims would agree with everything you’ve written with the exception of part in italics.
Not necessarily.
The victim has the right to justice and to hit back, but he can forgive. Islam combines Moses(as) and Jesus(as) in this way of perfection.
Of course not.
I agree. Where does Islam promote anything different?
Exactly that. Read the hadith I quoted in the above post for further clarification.
May I give you a little parable: someone owes a lot of money to a bank. He unfortunately finds that he’s ruined his life and has nothing else to return the money. He’ll say to the bank that he’s got no money left to pay his debt. He ask for authorizing a certificate of bankruptcy, so anyhow the bank cannot make a just settlement with him, realizing that it’s true he doesn’t have any more money. But someone then offers the bank that he will repay whatever debt that poor man has. Will the bank be happy? Of course. But who is the happiest? I think it’s the man that is not held accountable anymore since someone has taken away his burden.
How could you refer to Jesus in this, when what is in Koran, your absolute direction doesn’t direct you to this teaching, as there’s no Jesus as in the bible there?
So every innocent people or anybody will and should feel fear that whatever they might do wrong, even unintentionally can get their justice settled here on earth?
That’s nice. May I also give you a little parable to reflect on
Read the following verse from Matthew:
Yes. And they should pray it does, because if it doesn’t get settled on earth, it will get settled in the Hereafter because God is watching. What is your objection to that? Keep in mind that we distinguish between major and minor sins (similar but not quite the same as how Catholics distinguish between mortal and venial sins) and also sins against God and sins against other human beings. The bankruptcy hadith was referring to how sins against other human beings can destroy one in the Hereafter which encourages us to be good to others.
I pretty much agree with this except I follow Judaism. Everyone else can believe what they want to. I neither expect nor want for everyone to follow the same path.
Another parable to ponder:
So after the teaching of forgiving, you start again allowing your self to retaliate? Doesn’t make sense. And don’t forget to differentiate between retaliate and self defend. No wonder Muslim is the one of most hostile community world have to see. You’re given the option of not being wise. I remember the killing of a family in Muslim area in the Middle East, they kill the whole family to stop chance of retaliation, this happens because you’re society is given options to retaliate…!
This contradict to what you’ve just said in the first paragraph. As for my expalation, the debtors don’t have to worry, they just have to turn their wicked way to the right way.
The problem is that in your 1st parable, the man paid the debt for the debtors. If the man paid the debt, than the debt was not forgiven for nothing. Somebody else took the burden of the debt for it to be forgiven to the debtors. But the point of my parable was that no “somebody else” is necessary. You didn’t answer me on why a “somebody else” was necessary.
But look what at Islam says:
The point I’m trying to make is that no “divine man” is necessary. You tried to respond not by explaining why the “divine man” is necessary, but rather saying because it gives you a sense of assurance. But I showed to you that that’s not the case.
I think you need to seriously open your heart and reconsider and think about what you’re saying. Even if you choose to remain in your faith, I think you should accept that you are unfairly criticizing Islam. Perhaps some others on this forum can comment.
Wrong. You have confused the concept of sins against other human beings versus sins against God. If a sin was done against God, then God has the discretion to forgive. If the sin was done against another human being, it would be unjust for God to allow for the sin to just be forgiven without doing justice to the one wronged.
Probably not. Hopefully you understand the correct position of Islam. If you choose to reject it, then you are free to do so, but just remember that one day we will all stand before our Creator and will be answerable.
Amen.
For me believing in Christ is most important. Loving Him. And out of love do every thing He commanded us to do. Doing everything possible to be a good disciple of Christ!
But, Esdra, what are his teachings? When you subscribe to a particular teaching of Jesus, then you subscribe to a particular Church.
You are more likely to get into heaven as a Catholic
Believing in God is not enough…and “unbelief” doesn’t seem on His “radar screen”…one must live a godly life as well. Does it matter what religious beliefs one holds? I don’t really think it matters as much to God as it does to those who claim to know Him.