Frankly, I cannot see how that verse answers or even addresses the question Ianman asked.lanman87:
30Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31n Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
The simple answer is that, like the word Trinity, this term is not found in Scripture.
Yes, I think this is true. Those who adhere to Sola Scriptura are taught to evaluate their teachers using Scripture. Those of us who are part of the Churches founded by Apostles receive both the Sacred Writings, and the Sacred Tradition. We can measure adherence to the teaching of Christ using both of these.
Right, the word Trinity is not found in Scripture but the concept is.Wannano:
The simple answer is that, like the word Trinity, this term is not found in Scripture.
Here are some of the writings of the Fathers that reflect the faith of the early Church.
This article gives more detail on how the verse quoted by @cjbhoward is part of a network of Scriptures that the Church takes as a whole regarding the role of the Ark, and the role of Mary.
In addition to the dogma of the Theotokos, which I did not encounter until later in life, the parallels in the structure used by Luke to describe the activities of Mary was most convincing.
Adam named his helpmate Eve because she is the mother of all living. Mary is the mother of all those who belong to her Son, who is the Source of all that is Living.
Paul compares the disobedience of Adam to the obedience of Christ. In the same way, we compare the disobedience of Eve to the obedience of Mary.
Yes, and he stops about a half inch short of proclaiming that non-Catholics are all going to hell.Wannano:
Yes, I think this is true. Those who adhere to Sola Scriptura are taught to evaluate their teachers using Scripture. Those of us who are part of the Churches founded by Apostles receive both the Sacred Writings, and the Sacred Tradition. We can measure adherence to the teaching of Christ using both of these.
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have kept this Apostolic command:
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter. (2 Thess 1)
The Reformers believed that the Holy Spirit had not faithfully preserved the “word of mouth” part (Sacred Tradition) so jettisoned this half of the Divine Revelation to stick with the Scripture, which seemed infinitely more dependable.
In answer to the question in the OP, I would say that we are not to denominate at all. This means to “take one’s name from”. All denominations that exist today were taken out of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus did not want this kind of division in His One Body, the Church. “Denonination” is the opposite of the unity for which He prayed.
@steve-b has written at length in his posts about the Scriptures relating to the sins of division.
None of us can possibly elevate her more than God has already done. He humbled Himself, took the form of a servant, and entered the world through her womb. She nursed him, changed His diapers, and wiped his skinned knees. She spent more time with Him on earth than any other human being.
The Fathers looked for meanings within the once for all divine deposit of faith, according to the idea that what was concealed in the OT is revealed in the NT. There are a vast many types and shadows that have amazing clarity when seen through the eyes of the Church. The disciples on the road to Emmaus experienced this, as Jesus opened their minds to the Scriptures. We regard the Word of God as a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our way.
Actually I was just reading a thread where he had considerably less than a half inch, more like a couple millimeters.
Isn’t it divisive for a Catholic to come to a different conclusion and expound it when it differs from the Church?Wannano:
Actually I was just reading a thread where he had considerably less than a half inch, more like a couple millimeters.
But, while I don’t subscribe to his conclusions (neither does the Catholic Church, for that matter), the principle is valid. Divisions matter, and are contrary to Jesus will for His Church. We need to all work to resolve them, and come into the unity He desires. That begins by understanding our differences, and CAF is a great place to do that.
I think so, and said so. Sometimes the pot calls the kettle black!
Yes, the Church teaches, and history has proved that there is the greatest strength in diversity. However, the diversity of human identity - language, culture, etc is one thing, but “diversity” of doctrine is quite another. Heterodoxy is forbidden. We must find a way to appreciate diversity while being all of one mind:
I think that depends upon what the agreement is. In unity of faith, no, but in forcing everyone to conform to human customs and practices, and human ideas about what the Scriptures mean, I think you are right.
The Catholic Church because they get to dance and drink!Wannano:
Yes, the Church teaches, and history has proved that there is the greatest strength in diversity. However, the diversity of human identity - language, culture, etc is one thing, but “diversity” of doctrine is quite another. Heterodoxy is forbidden. We must find a way to appreciate diversity while being all of one mind:
10 Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same purpose. I Cor. 1:10.
Let there be no σχισματα - schismata
This is not just a matter of people quarreling with each other. It is a reference to doctrine that separates the Body.
I think that depends upon what the agreement is. In unity of faith, no, but in forcing everyone to conform to human customs and practices, and human ideas about what the Scriptures mean, I think you are right.
When I sojourned among the Southern Baptists, they said “no dancing!” When I sojourned among the Pentecostals, they danced in Church. Who decides if this is doctrinal, or related to human precepts?
I am sorry you made it a judgemental statement that simply is not true. I myself have never been taught to think of Mary as my Mother. That I am supposed to, is a recent discovery. I still don’t understand the reasoning for thinking that way. To judge us who have not been taught to think this way as not being in the family of God is not a determination you are qualified to make. God knows who belongs to Him.
It’s not judgement. I’m just saying what he said. "Woman behold your son. To the disciple, “Behold your mother.”
You absolutely are making a judgement and you are not saying what he said at all. This conversation is used by Catholics to prove that Mary had no other children and that Jesus designated her future care to the disciple. Something he would not have done if there were other children. You are misconstruing the meaning of his words.Wannano:
It’s not judgement. I’m just saying what he said. "Woman behold your son. To the disciple, “Behold your mother.”
I’m asking you, are you the disciple whom He loved?
I’m asking you, are you the disciple whom Jesus loved?
I have never claimed to be the disciple that stood at the cross 2000 years ago. I do not follow your thoughts. Quite willing to forget the mumbo jumbo!Wannano:
I’m asking you, are you the disciple whom Jesus loved?
If so, what does it mean to you when he says, “Behold your mother.”?
No judgment. I’m not asking what Catholics use that text for. Forget all the mumbo jumbo.
It’s just you & your bible. Not your pastor, your brother, your TV evangelist.
Are you the disciple whom He loved?
What does it mean when He says to you, “Behold your Mother.”
John19:25-26
Who do you think those quotes refer to?guanophore:
Yes, and he stops about a half inch short of proclaiming that non-Catholics are all going to hell.Wannano:
Yes, I think this is true. Those who adhere to Sola Scriptura are taught to evaluate their teachers using Scripture. Those of us who are part of the Churches founded by Apostles receive both the Sacred Writings, and the Sacred Tradition. We can measure adherence to the teaching of Christ using both of these.
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have kept this Apostolic command:
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter. (2 Thess 1)
The Reformers believed that the Holy Spirit had not faithfully preserved the “word of mouth” part (Sacred Tradition) so jettisoned this half of the Divine Revelation to stick with the Scripture, which seemed infinitely more dependable.
In answer to the question in the OP, I would say that we are not to denominate at all. This means to “take one’s name from”. All denominations that exist today were taken out of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus did not want this kind of division in His One Body, the Church. “Denonination” is the opposite of the unity for which He prayed.
@steve-b has written at length in his posts about the Scriptures relating to the sins of division.