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PeopleB4Things
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Does Satan have us under a spell? Satan or our weakness toward sin has always been with us since the first hominids walked the face of the Earth. We acknowledged this idea in our creation story of Adam and Eve. We are always at risk from our own weaknesses. To assume we are under Satan’s spell means we are not responsible for our actions. It’s the Devil made me do it defense. We all contain the potential of good and evil within ourselves. Which we choose to follow at any given time is our choice.
For those who will reply because they believe in creationism, I wanted to quote from Catholic.com. “Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul.”
For those who will reply because they believe in creationism, I wanted to quote from Catholic.com. “Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul.”
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babbc
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the ruler of this world IS satan.
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Robert_Sock
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For those espousing the view that the material world is glorious, I provide the following Jewish Mystical thoughts as to why:
Explains the Rebbe: The “world to come” is not a reality that is disconnected from our present existence. Rather, it is the result of our present-day efforts in dealing with and perfecting the material world. The world of Moshiach is the culmination of all positive achievements of history, the era in which the cosmic yield of mankind’s every good deed will come to light.
In other words, our present world is the means and the “world to come” is the goal. This is the deeper significance of Jacob’s claim on the “world to come,” and Esau’s (and here we speak of the “Torah’s Esau,” the righteous conqueror of his inclinations) preference for the present world. Jacob sees perfection as the only desirable state of man, while Esau sees the struggle with imperfection as desirable in and of itself.
Yet both Jacob and Esau recognize the necessity for both of “the two worlds,” for the process and its outcome. The “perfectly pious” man also requires the material world as the vehicle that leads to ultimate perfection. And the “conqueror” also sees perfection as the goal to which his efforts lead. For although his purpose in life is defined by the process itself, a process, by definition, must have a goal.
So this is their “fight.” Jacob and Esau each lay claim to both worlds as part of their life’s endeavor. But their priorities are reversed. To the Jacobs of the world, the material world is but a tool, a means to an end. To its Esaus, man’s material involvements and the struggles they entail are what life is all about. A futuristic vision of perfection is necessary, but only as a reference-point that provides coherence and direction to the “real” business of life.
The tension between them over their differing visions of the “two worlds” is not a negative thing. It is the result of two world views, both positive and necessary, both indispensable components of man’s mission in life.
chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/15573/jewish/Jacob-and-Esau.htm
I got to be careful, I may be engaging in ‘intellectualism,’ but the above quote from our Jewish brothers and sisters was too tempting not to post. I really want share!
LOVE!
Explains the Rebbe: The “world to come” is not a reality that is disconnected from our present existence. Rather, it is the result of our present-day efforts in dealing with and perfecting the material world. The world of Moshiach is the culmination of all positive achievements of history, the era in which the cosmic yield of mankind’s every good deed will come to light.
In other words, our present world is the means and the “world to come” is the goal. This is the deeper significance of Jacob’s claim on the “world to come,” and Esau’s (and here we speak of the “Torah’s Esau,” the righteous conqueror of his inclinations) preference for the present world. Jacob sees perfection as the only desirable state of man, while Esau sees the struggle with imperfection as desirable in and of itself.
Yet both Jacob and Esau recognize the necessity for both of “the two worlds,” for the process and its outcome. The “perfectly pious” man also requires the material world as the vehicle that leads to ultimate perfection. And the “conqueror” also sees perfection as the goal to which his efforts lead. For although his purpose in life is defined by the process itself, a process, by definition, must have a goal.
So this is their “fight.” Jacob and Esau each lay claim to both worlds as part of their life’s endeavor. But their priorities are reversed. To the Jacobs of the world, the material world is but a tool, a means to an end. To its Esaus, man’s material involvements and the struggles they entail are what life is all about. A futuristic vision of perfection is necessary, but only as a reference-point that provides coherence and direction to the “real” business of life.
The tension between them over their differing visions of the “two worlds” is not a negative thing. It is the result of two world views, both positive and necessary, both indispensable components of man’s mission in life.
chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/15573/jewish/Jacob-and-Esau.htm
I got to be careful, I may be engaging in ‘intellectualism,’ but the above quote from our Jewish brothers and sisters was too tempting not to post. I really want share!
LOVE!
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PeopleB4Things
Guest
I think homosexuality is of God and is not the work of Satan or a black magic spell like thing. We see homosexuality throughout God’s creation, not just in humans. Homosexuality is a instrument of love and communion. To deny God’s creation is itself a human failure, a sin. We can read about it in our human written books, we can talk about it in our human written homilies, but those things don’t make the acts of judgment and hubris any less sinful. We should humble ourselves in the face of his creation, not try to correct God for his poor workmanship. God is love. We judge God when we judge love. So that begs the question, who are we to judge what is in the hearts of our homosexual brothers and sisters? We are no one. We have no authority to usurp God. The relationship between God and his children is not defined nor affected by the hubris and judgements of others.Some inner spiritual experiences are obviously beyond our self-control. Homosexuality is caused by evil spirits to the point that the person has no control over his inclinations. Similarly, other spiritual experiences give rise to other ‘non-religious’ inclinations that shape a person’s being. Homosexuality, and these other inclinations, are based on trance.
No, these were my own personal experiences. Non-religious experiences do not exist. All our spirituality belongs to Satan and God and His Good Angels.
That’s cool. I can go with your definitions.
BTW… The Roman Catholic Church does not consider a gay or lesbian orientation to be inherently sinful because it is not a choice, and “morality presumes the freedom to choose,” according to the National Conference of Catholic Bishops Committee on Marriage and Family’s 1997 statement, “Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children.”
From the NYT “Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who led the public charge against the measure, spoke out in a heated meeting of bishops in 2010 and advocated a highly unorthodox solution: that the church in Argentina support the idea of civil unions for gay couples. The concession inflamed the gathering — and offers a telling insight into the leadership style he may now bring to the papacy.” March, 2013
Cardinal Dolan- in an interview on NBC’s Meet the Press talking about civil marriages. What the pope has said, according to Dolan, is that church leaders need to “look into it and see the reasons that have driven them…. Rather than quickly condemn them… let’s just ask the questions as to why that has appealed to certain people…." March, 2014
While I doubt the church will ever officially support civil unions, there may be a point in time when it will stop protesting it. There are religious, learned, faithful and influential Catholic leaders & scholars who are in support of civil unions. That’s good because we are not a democracy. There is hope that their influence will eventually prevail in keeping God’s love alive.
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Robert_Sock
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LOVE!
I too hold homosexuals in high esteem! However, as a religious and research psychologist, I believe it is in need of repentance, just as are the sinful behaviors of everyone! Sodomy, regardless of whether it’s between homosexuals or heterosexuals, is equally sinful, I do believe.
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PeopleB4Things
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Thanks for commenting and sharing your opinion. Have a great weekend!LOVE!
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infinity1357
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“Human nature seems to dictate free will unless you are to the point of addiction.” - Melvin Earlmeyer 1943I’m afraid that we live in world where ignorance and illusion abound. I voted ‘yes.’ Sex, porn, SSA and abortion make it hard to believe otherwise.
LOVE!
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Robert_Sock
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Robert_Sock
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Why do people refuse to choose LOVE? With everybody choosing LOVE, which is the most fundamental human spiritual experience that we are all supernaturally inclined to harvest, the world’s problems would disappear, and we would all be destined for Heaven. But what causes our souls to reject LOVE? My own answer is that it’s the ‘strong spell’ that Satan has us under. Under the ‘good’ spirit, every soul would seek to experience LOVE and thus be saved.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
It sounds simple, but it really isn’t. If a person has been emotionally hurt by another person, they experience pain and either use a defense mechanism to deal with it, or lash out at someone else. Often people are unaware that they are doing wrong to another person; they are just taking care of their own needs. It’s true that the Jesus maxim: love God and love your neighbor is the correct path, but it’s still hard for everyone to follow those words, no matter how hard they try. We are all sinners and very much in need of God’s mercy.
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Robert_Sock
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Hi Christine! Why are defensive mechanisms used? I calm that everything you are presenting is the result of the strong spell of Satan. What would the world look like without Satan (evil)? Just minor changes? My guess is that our world would not even be able to exist without Satan.
LOVE!
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CHRISTINE77
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I think it could exist - but not the way it is now! It would be more like Eden and less like Hell!Hi Christine! Why are defensive mechanisms used? I calm that everything you are presenting is the result of the strong spell of Satan. What would the world look like without Satan (evil)? Just minor changes? My guess is that our world would not even be able to exist without Satan.
LOVE!
Here is what Pope John Paul II had to say about Satan and his influence on the world:
"The analysis of sin in its original dimension indicates that, through the influence of the ‘father of lies,’ throughout the history of humanity there will be a constant pressure on man to reject God, even to the point of hating him: `Love of self to the point of contempt for God,’ as St. Augustine puts it (cf. De civitate Dei, XIV, 28). Man will be inclined to see in God primarily a limitation of himself, and not the source of his own freedom and the fullness of good.
We see this confirmed in the modern age, when atheistic ideologies seek to root out religion on the grounds that religion causes the radical
alienation' of man, as if man were dispossessed of his own humanity when, accepting the idea of God, he attributes to God what belongs to man, and exclusively to man! Hence a process of thought and historico-sociological practice in which the rejection of God has reached the point of declaring his 'death.' An absurdity, both in concept and expression! But the ideology of the 'death of God' is more a threat to man, as the Second Vatican Council indicates when it analyzes the question of the 'independence of earthly affairs' and writes: 'For without the Creator the creature would disappear. . . . When God is forgotten the creature itself grows unintelligible' (GS, 36). The ideology of the death of God’ easily demonstrates in its effects that on the `theoretical and practical’ levels it is the ideology of the ‘death of man’ " (L’Osservatore Romano, June 9, 1986).More here:
ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/JP2DEVIL.htm
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davidv
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See my highlight above.
Your answer seems to deny the Church’s teaching on the nature of sin. Sins are deliberate choices to not love God or neighber. If one is under a spell, how can one be guilty of sin? You may want to refresh your understanding by rereading the CCC section on sin.
Why do you define love as an experience? Agape love is the sacrificial giving of oneself for the benefit of another. This is a deliberate choice. What one experiences in this effort may not be pleasant or enjoyable.
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Robert_Sock
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Oh, I did not mean to suggest that Satan’s spell is absolute, but a fluctuation in respect to the completeness of the spell. I certainly believe that God can set things right so that in certain, critical situations, the spell of Satan is diminished considerably, and free will is enabled. But I do believe that a lot of individuals may be forgiven by God because the spell is maximized.
Yes, I basically agree, but I also believe that when living in the love of God, ‘sacrifices’ become almost effortless. The love of God, which I included in my definition, is experienced, as are the good feelings for engaging in charity.
LOVE!
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davidv
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You may not mean to, but you choice of words certainly suggests it.
Why not in all cases? Was Jesus lying when He said “for all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:27).
Do we need to repent in order to be forgiven? How does this repentance come about?
Do all acts of charity result is good feelings? What if good feelings don’t happen?Yes, I basically agree, but I also believe that when living in the love of God, ‘sacrifices’ become almost effortless. The love of God, which I included in my definition, is experienced, as are the good feelings for engaging in charity.
LOVE!
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Robert_Sock
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Sorry, but I’m glad we cleared it up.
I do not believe that the human species would thrive, or that life in this world would even be possible, without the element of evil.
I tend to believe that God will hold no sins against us that were not committed with free will.
Either immediate or delayed, good feelings will usually prevail at some point. In the cases where they are not, the charitable behavior will be eventually be extinguished. (I do not believe in pure altruism, except maybe in highly selective situations. If the behavior is forced in any way, charity is not present.)
LOVE!
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CHRISTINE77
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To sin there has to be free will, otherwise it is not a sin. A person chooses to sin. A person who does not understand right from wrong, like an imbecile or a tiny child will not be judged for their actions. However, from the age of seven, most people know right from wrong. So all people will be judged for their unrepented sins. At least that’s how I learned it.
God is merciful though to people who acknowledge their sins and ask for forgiveness!
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GaryTaylor
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Here’s a better understanding.
“The existence of the particular judgment, affirmed by the ordinary teaching of the Church, is founded on Scripture and tradition. Theological reasoning confirms this truth. It is appropriate that there be a definitive sanction as soon as the soul is capable of being judged on all its merits and demerits, that is, at the moment when the time of merit is finished, and this moment arrives at once after death. Were the case otherwise, the soul would remain in uncertainty about the general judgment, and this uncertainty would be contrary to the wisdom of God, as well as to His mercy and His Justice.”
google.com/url?q=http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/ev11.php&sa=U&ei=nrNrTtzkK47egQf96ozdBQ&ved=0CBgQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNEqZgzEjj08uBFLX_Ytv7bsfMqIgA
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Robert_Sock
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I meant to place quotation marks around the word, ‘sin.’ But you are correct, and thanks for pointing it out!To sin there has to be free will, otherwise it is not a sin. A person chooses to sin. A person who does not understand right from wrong, like an imbecile or a tiny child will not be judged for their actions. However, from the age of seven, most people know right from wrong. So all people will be judged for their unrepented sins. At least that’s how I learned it.
God is merciful though to people who acknowledge their sins and ask for forgiveness!
LOVE!
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