Does Satan have our world under a strong spell?

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Adonia said:
No, not under his spell, but for sure Satan is being allowed by God the freedom to entice humans into evil. This is counteracted by the saving grace of Christ and we in turn have the free will to follow the good path laid out for us. Satan is stupid, he always thinks he will win, but time and time again he ultimately fails.
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👍 A far more realistic and balanced view than the fanciful world-dominated-by-Satan hypothesis.
 
meltzerboy said:
If what you mean by “control much of our sexuality,” is that Satan tempts us so that we abuse our G-d-given sexual part of our nature, then perhaps. But Satan’s temptation is essentially for the purpose of strengthening our resolve by putting pressure on us to freely choose the morally right path and not give in to sexual pleasure whenever and wherever it pleases us. To say that Satan keeps the world under some sort of diabolical spell is, as “tonyrey” notes, to deny or minimize the power of G-d to give us the will (grace) to ward off evil impulses.
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Thanks for your support, meltzerboy. 🙂
 
Geist said:
Satanic influence is all around us; if you are not seeing it is because you turn your eyes away.
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If that were the case Satan would be more powerful than God and most people would be evil. :eek: 🤷
 
tonyrey said:
No! To think Satan has our world under a strong spell is to underestimate the power of Jesus whose love has redeemed everyone without exception. Even if we are not Christians the vast majority of civilised people believe in the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity due to the impact of His teaching that we are all children of the same Father. Most of us are weak but not vicious - and certainly not diabolical…
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Is our redemption complete in this life, or must we await the Hereafter?
 
Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Sounds very consistent with the notion that Satan has the world under a spell. How does everybody interpret it?
 
Robert_Sock said:
Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Sounds very consistent with the notion that Satan has the world under a spell. How does everybody interpret it?
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There are no words in this quote that even hint at any “spell”. By the way, what do you mean by “spell”.
 
davidv said:
There are no words in this quote that even hint at any “spell”. By the way, what do you mean by “spell”.
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This is the very root of this question. To me (and probably most of the other “no” voters), to be under a “spell” connotes a removal of free will. Think of Prince Eric choosing to marry the evil sea witch Ursula while under her spell (I have young daughters, ok?). That is an unacceptable proposition because, as others have noted: 1) it removes our culpability for everything we do, 2) it removes or negates a God-given gift or faculty both of which 3) make Satan (at least seem) more powerful than God, which is logically impossible.

Now, I 100% agree that the Enemy’s influence in this world is very great. But he has no power apart from God (in fact, Satan, as a creature, would not exist if God didn’t will it through His creative action) and works through whispers in our minds.

As to the question of the relative proportion of saved souls, we cannot know this and are commanded not to judge others’ salvation status. Who knows what will happen at our particular judgments or at the end of time? Perhaps God, in His mercy, will give us a peek at our lives as He saw them and a final opportunity to embrace Him. The way may be narrow, but as anyone who drives in Southern California knows, that doesn’t mean it can’t accommodate an infinite line of people. We just may need to spend a very long time in Purgatory to get there.
 
Cicero_NOLA said:
This is the very root of this question. To me (and probably most of the other “no” voters), to be under a “spell” connotes a removal of free will. Think of Prince Eric choosing to marry the evil sea witch Ursula while under her spell (I have young daughters, ok?). That is an unacceptable proposition because, as others have noted: 1) it removes our culpability for everything we do, 2) it removes or negates a God-given gift or faculty both of which 3) make Satan (at least seem) more powerful than God, which is logically impossible.

Now, I 100% agree that the Enemy’s influence in this world is very great. But he has no power apart from God (in fact, Satan, as a creature, would not exist if God didn’t will it through His creative action) and works through whispers in our minds.

As to the question of the relative proportion of saved souls, we cannot know this and are commanded not to judge others’ salvation status. Who knows what will happen at our particular judgments or at the end of time? Perhaps God, in His mercy, will give us a peek at our lives as He saw them and a final opportunity to embrace Him. The way may be narrow, but as anyone who drives in Southern California knows, that doesn’t mean it can’t accommodate an infinite line of people. We just may need to spend a very long time in Purgatory to get there.
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:clapping: A superb analysis which really gets to the root of the matter.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Yes, I strongly agree that God gives us the grace to resist temptation, but I do not believe that our world being under a spell is inconsistent with this fact. I believe that we live in an illusion, where nothing is real except the illusion. I believe that this is well within God’s will.

LOVE! 🙂
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Are you saying therefore that our free will, our conscience, our religious faith, and our belief in G-d are also part of the illusion of this world, which is manipulated by Satan and condoned by G-d?
 
tonyrey said:
No! To think Satan has our world under a strong spell is to underestimate the power of Jesus whose love has redeemed everyone without exception. Even if we are not Christians the vast majority of civilised people believe in the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity due to the impact of His teaching that we are all children of the same Father. Most of us are weak but not vicious - and certainly not diabolical…
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I cannot fail to observe that you are with the few who do not see how we get closer and closer to the end days, but believe in liberty, equality, fraternity…It was an joke, wasn’t?

I think it is reasonable to expect to see those days…
 
Ion said:
I cannot fail to observe that you are with the few who do not see how we get closer and closer to the end days, but believe in liberty, equality, fraternity…It was an joke, wasn’t?

I think it is reasonable to expect to see those days…
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That’s what the early Christians were thinking, no? Killing Christians for sport was a more visible sign of end days.

You may be right. We don’t know when the end days are coming.

That is why, as Pascal urged, we should all live as if we had eight hours left to live.

God bless.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
That’s what the early Christians were thinking, no? Killing Christians for sport was a more visible sign of end days.

You may be right. We don’t know when the end days are coming.

That is why, as Pascal urged, we should all live as if we had eight hours left to live.

God bless.
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TY for reminding me…
 
Charlemagne_III said:
That’s what the early Christians were thinking, no? Killing Christians for sport was a more visible sign of end days.

You may be right. We don’t know when the end days are coming.

That is why, as Pascal urged, we should all live as if we had eight hours left to live.

God bless.
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I wonder why Pascal said eight hours left to live? Eight hours left to sleep sounds more like it.
 
Cicero_NOLA said:
This is the very root of this question. To me (and probably most of the other “no” voters), to be under a “spell” connotes a removal of free will. Think of Prince Eric choosing to marry the evil sea witch Ursula while under her spell (I have young daughters, ok?). That is an unacceptable proposition because, as others have noted: 1) it removes our culpability for everything we do, 2) it removes or negates a God-given gift or faculty both of which 3) make Satan (at least seem) more powerful than God, which is logically impossible.

Now, I 100% agree that the Enemy’s influence in this world is very great. But he has no power apart from God (in fact, Satan, as a creature, would not exist if God didn’t will it through His creative action) and works through whispers in our minds.

As to the question of the relative proportion of saved souls, we cannot know this and are commanded not to judge others’ salvation status. Who knows what will happen at our particular judgments or at the end of time? Perhaps God, in His mercy, will give us a peek at our lives as He saw them and a final opportunity to embrace Him. The way may be narrow, but as anyone who drives in Southern California knows, that doesn’t mean it can’t accommodate an infinite line of people. We just may need to spend a very long time in Purgatory to get there.
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People who have a strict adherence to free will are strongly errant in their thinking. For example, we know that young children operate based on operant conditioning. In other words, rewards and punishment, which severely undermines free will. The same with adults, who often act according to the principles of operant and classical conditioning.

As for the spell of Satan, yes I believe it lessens our culpability in certain ways. But I also believe that we are tested by God in other situations, where free will remains unhindered.

The CCC implicitly acknowledges that we are sometimes not culpable for our actions.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

The CCC doesn’t directly attribute habits of masturbation to Satan’s spell, but it certainly recognizes that free will may not always come into play.
 
davidv said:
There are no words in this quote that even hint at any “spell”. By the way, what do you mean by “spell”.
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By the spell of Satan I mean a grand illusion that most all of us assume is reality, and trance-like states that keep us in tune to the illusion, all within the will of God.
 
davidv said:
Satan has completely separated himself from God. He will not work for God. That is his sin. He has refused to serve. Satan does not control our sexuality. Our respective wills control our expression of our sexuality.
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Remember Job? Didn’t Satan collaborate with God?

I believe that Satan has much control over our sexuality, and can bombard us with endless sexual impulses and images until we unwittingly give in to sex.
 
tonyrey said:
Robert, once again you have taken no notice whatsoever of what I have written. 🤷

This has become a monologue not a discussion!
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My apology for not interpreting your post in the manner you wished. But I saw your argument, that Christ redeemed everyone, to hold water only if redemption was completely achieved in this world.

Listen and win!

LOVE! 🙂
 
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