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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Those believers were only exposed to Johns Baptism. They may have believed in Jesus[like satan did] but they had not recieved His Spirit yet.
God Bless.
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God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
As you correctly pointed out, those men in Acts had repented, since they were baptised with John’s baptism, which was a baptism of repentence. These men also believed because the Bible specifically refers to these men as “believers.”
Also, you did indicate that we need to “repent and believe,” but you also said that in order to allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, we need to change our actions. I quoted you in my previous post. Because you say that the Holy Spirit does not come to us until we change our ACTIONS, then you clearly suggest that salvation becomes a work on our part. If this is not what you meant to suggest, then how do you reconcile your positions?
In faith,
Fiat
As you correctly pointed out, those men in Acts had repented, since they were baptised with John’s baptism, which was a baptism of repentence. These men also believed because the Bible specifically refers to these men as “believers.”
Also, you did indicate that we need to “repent and believe,” but you also said that in order to allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, we need to change our actions. I quoted you in my previous post. Because you say that the Holy Spirit does not come to us until we change our ACTIONS, then you clearly suggest that salvation becomes a work on our part. If this is not what you meant to suggest, then how do you reconcile your positions?
In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Those believers believed what they heard but they had not recieved. Can you believe without recieving? YES. You see the problem is our understanding. When we recieve Christ we recieve the Fullness of His Spirit,just like in pentacost,they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. After we recieve the Holy Spirit,it will begin to transform our lives by the actions we take. We cant just recieve it and not change.This is the problem with the body of Christ today. If I give you an apple as a gift
and you do not eat it,it has no value, but the fact that it was a gift… It requires an action and that is that you eat it for you to gain the benifits of the apple.God Bless.
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AmyS
Guest
isn’t action works?
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
Thank you for your response. I especially liked the following:
But the point is that when I hear a non-catholic say that all we need to do is “believe,” the fact of the matter is that statement falls far short of what Scripture tells us about Salvation.
Finally, you initially pointed out that all we need to do to receive the Holy Spirit is believe. Now you state the following:
In Faith,
Fiat
Thank you for your response. I especially liked the following:
I have heard many, many of my faithful Catholic brothers and sisters say the same thing. We believe that at Baptism, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, but we need to cooperate with that Gift by actually opening it and leting the Spirit move in our life.
But the point is that when I hear a non-catholic say that all we need to do is “believe,” the fact of the matter is that statement falls far short of what Scripture tells us about Salvation.
Finally, you initially pointed out that all we need to do to receive the Holy Spirit is believe. Now you state the following:
So, do I correctly understand you to say that in order to receive the Holy Spirit, we have to RECEIVE? This is a little circular for me. What do you now mean by “receive”?
In Faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Wow.It must be my catholic backround. I made that up while I was typing.
I hope we have come to a better understanding in our conversations even though we might not agree with each other 
. God Bless
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Jesus then breathed on them,and said RECIEVE the Holy Spirit. YES, we have to recieve.We have to allow the Holy Spirit into our souls. God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
Okay, good…so how do we “allow the holy spirit into our souls?” For us Catholics, we do it sacramentally, coupled with our cooperation. Since noncatholics don’t have the sacraments, how do you allow the holy spirit into your soul. At this point, most noncatholics will answer “through belief.” However, that brings us back to where we started, and you now agree that belief is not enough.
In faith,
Fiat
Okay, good…so how do we “allow the holy spirit into our souls?” For us Catholics, we do it sacramentally, coupled with our cooperation. Since noncatholics don’t have the sacraments, how do you allow the holy spirit into your soul. At this point, most noncatholics will answer “through belief.” However, that brings us back to where we started, and you now agree that belief is not enough.
In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
How does anyone come in your house? By opening the DOOR. So easy isnt it.
God Bless. I hope I dont keep you going in circles for eventually you will become silly.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
You said:
The Holy Spirit awaits you in the Sacraments, just as He was waiting for those believers in Acts 19!!!
In faith,
Fiat
You said:
Yes!! And the Doors of the Holy Catholic Church are open to you today!!!How does anyone come in your house? By opening the DOOR. So easy isnt it.
The Holy Spirit awaits you in the Sacraments, just as He was waiting for those believers in Acts 19!!!In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Nice Try, BUT no church is going to save you Only in your own TEMPLE BODY}will salvation take place. Dont be decieved.Dear SPOKENWORD:
You said:
Yes!! And the Doors of the Holy Catholic Church are open to you today!!!
In faith,
Fiat
God Bless. p/s By the way EXRC made it very clear in defining BORN AGAIN in appoligetics forum.All that is needed now is Godly wisdom and understanding on your part. Use these Gifts God gave you.
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AmyS
Guest
It is all about the Holy Spirit… The Church is just an instrument the Holy Spirit works through.Nice Try, BUT no church is going to save you Only in your own TEMPLE [BODY}will salvation take place. Dont be decieved.
[/quote]
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
I think I’m as equally confused by Exrc’s definition of “born again” as I am by yours. First, you state that when Jesus says we need to be born again, He means that we need to be “baptized in the Spirit.” You then said that to be baptized in the Spirit comes about through belief. You then said that “belief” isn’t enough, but that we bring about the Holy Spirit by our “actions.” You then said that we receive the Holy Spirit by receiving the Holy Spirit.
If your concept of salvation is “so easy,” as you indicated, then why is it so difficult for you to explain what it means to believe? Likewise, why is Exrc having a difficult time explaining what it means to believe?
In faith,
Fiat
I think I’m as equally confused by Exrc’s definition of “born again” as I am by yours. First, you state that when Jesus says we need to be born again, He means that we need to be “baptized in the Spirit.” You then said that to be baptized in the Spirit comes about through belief. You then said that “belief” isn’t enough, but that we bring about the Holy Spirit by our “actions.” You then said that we receive the Holy Spirit by receiving the Holy Spirit.
If your concept of salvation is “so easy,” as you indicated, then why is it so difficult for you to explain what it means to believe? Likewise, why is Exrc having a difficult time explaining what it means to believe?
In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
You sound just like Nicodemos. Yes I agree you are in a state of confussion.Thats why you need Godly wisdom and understanding. Seek His face and you will recieve it for that is Gods promise. It is difficult when you are taught one way . God Bless
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Yes, The church is there to help us. We do need the support of the Body of Christians, We are to help each other by encouraging,and building up one another,and praying together and worshipping together. But like I said the CHURCH does not save us.It is all about the Holy Spirit… The Church is just an instrument the Holy Spirit works through.
God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
You said:
Thank you for pointing out that I need Godly wisdom. I’ll be the first to admit that. Thankfully I know where to find that Godly wisdom…in the sacraments of the Holy Catholic Church and through Her magisterium.
You said “it is difficult when you are taught one way.” I disagree. You see, I was raised to believe what you are trying to teach us here. Fortunately, Godly wisdom pierced through the deception and the Holy Spirit led me to His Holy Church.
We are digressing, though. Do you have an answer as to how we receive the Spirit? If you don’t have an answer, I won’t think any less of you or doubt your sincerity. I’m just interested in seeing whether any Noncatholic can at all explain what they mean when they say things like, “all you have to do is believe.”
In faith,
Fiat
You said:
I am not at all in a state of confusion about my salvation and my love for the Holy Catholic Church. My confusion relates only to how you are trying to define “born again” and how you come to an understanding of “baptism in the Spirit.”
Thank you for pointing out that I need Godly wisdom. I’ll be the first to admit that. Thankfully I know where to find that Godly wisdom…in the sacraments of the Holy Catholic Church and through Her magisterium.
You said “it is difficult when you are taught one way.” I disagree. You see, I was raised to believe what you are trying to teach us here. Fortunately, Godly wisdom pierced through the deception and the Holy Spirit led me to His Holy Church.
We are digressing, though. Do you have an answer as to how we receive the Spirit? If you don’t have an answer, I won’t think any less of you or doubt your sincerity. I’m just interested in seeing whether any Noncatholic can at all explain what they mean when they say things like, “all you have to do is believe.”
In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Ok, Fiat,Lets see how you do with this one. Prove to me that the Eucharist is the Body of Christ? I want to see the Flesh you are talking about that you are eating.
God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
I think you may be misunderstanding my intentions. I’m not trying to back you into a corner or put you on the defensive. I’m trying to come to an understanding as to why you think water baptism does not equate itself with Jesus’ definition of born again.
In Faith,
Fiat
I think you may be misunderstanding my intentions. I’m not trying to back you into a corner or put you on the defensive. I’m trying to come to an understanding as to why you think water baptism does not equate itself with Jesus’ definition of born again.
In Faith,
Fiat
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RNRobert
Guest
St Peter describes in third chapter of his first epistle how Noah and his family being saved during the Flood prefigured Baptism, and concludes in verse 21 by saying that “Baptism now saves you.” Seems to me St Peter felt that baptism was not merely symbolic.
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RNRobert
Guest
As Fiat pointed out, the paralytic man was healed of his body as well as having his sins forgiven, through the faith of his friends.
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