Does the study of religion and philosophy contradict each other?

[Joe_5859]

hopefully, he won’t return! i don’t think what he has to offer is pertinent
to my question.

the philosophy he is promoting doesn’t seem appealing to me.

Nor is it appealing to anyone else, I imagine.

It doesn’t seem like he’s basing his thoughts on any philosopher I’ve ever heard of. It seems like he’s making it up as he goes along.

 

[WindyHair]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Deborah! I’m not sure what WindyHair’s purpose on this thread is. He’s probably just trying to make waves. It’s probably best to just ignore him.

the reason u want to ignore me is the same reason
muslim extremists ignore others. it feels better to
just stick your head in the sand, because if you
were ever to take it out, you might find the world
very different from what you assumed.

and that, is the difference between religion and philosophy
my friend. religion wants to stick your head in it’s version
of sand, philosophy wants you to stick your head out.

 

[Joe_5859]

the reason u want to ignore me is the same reason
muslim extremists ignore others. it feels better to
just stick your head in the sand, because if you
were ever to take it out, you might find the world
very different from what you assumed.

and that, is the difference between religion and philosophy
my friend. religion wants to stick your head in it’s version
of sand, philosophy wants you to stick your head out.

You still haven’t given any evidence of that, nor explained your train of thought. You’ll have to do better if you want us to take you seriously.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please refrain from making personal comments within threads, everyone. Thank you.

 

[WindyHair]

You still haven’t given any evidence of that, nor explained your train of thought. You’ll have to do better if you want us to take you seriously.

the reason i don’t explain everything to you is because
that is another difference between judaism and philosophy.
judaism gives you answers,
philosophy gives you questions.
unlike judaism where they teach you
to be a playback tape recorder,
philosophy requires that you think
for yourself. being a sheep is not good enough.
it’s time to be human.

philosophy will not necessarily make u a non-believer of god.
i think it makes you have a better understanding of god.

but if you want to stay at the fire and brimstone level of
your religion, be my guest.

 

[anon52328184]

so are you saying that by studying philosophy you do not believe in religion as a whole?

i myself am catholic and i feel i don’t feel like it has stopped me from thinking for myself.

also, neither catholicism nor judaism are known as fire and brimstone religions.
that might be more baptist or pentecostal or some evangelical non-denominational.

 

[Psychotheosophy]

the reason i don’t explain everything to you is because
that is another difference between judaism and philosophy.
judaism gives you answers,
philosophy gives you questions.
unlike judaism where they teach you
to be a playback tape recorder,
philosophy requires that you think
for yourself. being a sheep is not good enough.
it’s time to be human.

philosophy will not necessarily make u a non-believer of god.
i think it makes you have a better understanding of god.

but if you want to stay at the fire and brimstone level of
your religion, be my guest.

How did you arrive at the answer,
“philosophy gives you questions?”

 

[Joe_5859]

so are you saying that by studying philosophy you do not believe in religion as a whole?

i myself am catholic and i feel i don’t feel like it has stopped me from thinking for myself.

also, neither catholicism nor judaism are known as fire and brimstone religions.
that might be more baptist or pentecostal or some evangelical non-denominational.

Exactly. I haven’t seen anyone here (on this thread or any other here at CAF) advocating that we keep our faith on the “fire and brimstone level” and not think about anything. All I keep seeing from WindyHair is strange platitudes like “religion gives us answers, philosophy gives us questions” with nothing that would demonstrate that that is indeed the case (or what that even means, or why questions are better than answers, etc., etc.)

 

[anon52328184]

i see my second sentence in my post is kind of confusing. i definitely mean to say that even though i am catholic, i can still think for myself.

the posts from windy hair seem as though they are one liners quoted from a book about philosophy, but they don’t mean anything standing alone.

even though i am catholic, i feel i can still have both questions and answers.

 

[Joe_5859]

i see my second sentence in my post is kind of confusing. i definitely mean to say that even though i am catholic, i can still think for myself.

the posts from windy hair seem as though they are one liners quoted from a book about philosophy, but they don’t mean anything standing alone.

even though i am catholic, i feel i can still have both questions and answers.

Many people seem to emphasize “questioning” so much that they foregt what the purpose of a question is: to find an answer!

Yes, it’s okay to ask questions, but it’s also okay to find some answers.

 

[edward_george]

I can’t believe what I am hearing. Tell Thomas Aquinas that philosophy teaches “untruths” or that it contradicts Christianity. Thomas Aquinas was the greatest Christian Theologian who ever lived–and he drew heavily on the work of Plato and Aristotle. Ask any seminarian–the first few years of seminary are spent earning the equivalent of a bachelor’s in philosophy, simply because learning to think logically and carefully are essential to studying Theology–which is itself a branch of philosophy. To say that philosophy contradicts Christianity is pure silliness. Modern Philosophy is sometimes anti-Christian or else damaging to the Christian worldview, but Classical Philosophy is the foundation of Christian thought. I’d also say that it’s no small coincidence (in fact, no coincidence at all) that at a certain point in history Philosophy started to grow and develop–a few centuries before Christ.

-ACEGC

 

[WindyHair]

i see my second sentence in my post is kind of confusing. i definitely mean to say that even though i am catholic, i can still think for myself.

the posts from windy hair seem as though they are one liners quoted from a book about philosophy, but they don’t mean anything standing alone.

even though i am catholic, i feel i can still have both questions and answers.

you fail to see the irony in your own words.

 

[WindyHair]

I can’t believe what I am hearing. Tell Thomas Aquinas that philosophy teaches “untruths” or that it contradicts Christianity. Thomas Aquinas was the greatest Christian Theologian who ever lived–and he drew heavily on the work of Plato and Aristotle. Ask any seminarian–the first few years of seminary are spent earning the equivalent of a bachelor’s in philosophy, simply because learning to think logically and carefully are essential to studying Theology–which is itself a branch of philosophy. To say that philosophy contradicts Christianity is pure silliness. Modern Philosophy is sometimes anti-Christian or else damaging to the Christian worldview, but Classical Philosophy is the foundation of Christian thought. I’d also say that it’s no small coincidence (in fact, no coincidence at all) that at a certain point in history Philosophy started to grow and develop–a few centuries before Christ.

-ACEGC

i never knew theology to be a branch of philosophy.
i think it’s more correct to say it is a born from ethics/epistemology,
which are branches of philo.

philosophy is the foundation to logic, psychology, ethics,
science, reason, sociology… on and on. philosophy existed long before christianity. it’s just the greeks were able to make western philosophy into a system.

explain how theology is equivalant to philosophy.

in one sentence u say philo contradicts christianity is silly, yet
in the very next you say it’s sometimes anti-christian?
now that’s silly.

 

[WindyHair]

Many people seem to emphasize “questioning” so much that they foregt what the purpose of a question is: to find an answer!

Yes, it’s okay to ask questions, but it’s also okay to find some answers.

finding answers for one self is a great thing.
the problem is when one applies it as the absolute truth
and everyone else is wrong, which is basicaly a form of
aggression and domination.

 

[Joe_5859]

finding answers for one self is a great thing.
the problem is when one applies it as the absolute truth
and everyone else is wrong, which is basicaly a form of
aggression and domination.

Is this statement of yours an absolute truth?

If it is, then that means that you are making an act of aggression and are trying to dominate us by forcing us to submit to this “truth”.

If it is not, then that means that we can basically ignore it because it is only your opinion.

 

[WindyHair]

Is this statement of yours an absolute truth?

If it is, then that means that you are making an act of aggression and are trying to dominate us by forcing us to submit to this “truth”.

If it is not, then that means that we can basically ignore it because it is only your opinion.

ahhh… NOW you’re getting it.
now imagine if we had millions of people and weapons.
see how wars can get started?

but i’m not forcing or condemning you to believe in my opinion.
if you don’t want to, you won’t go to hell. but it sounds to me
like you don’t believe that when one group claims the only truth
for everyone, that is not a form of domination?

i think that is naive, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Joe_5859]

ahhh… NOW you’re getting it.
now imagine if we had millions of people and weapons.
see how wars can get started?

but i’m not forcing or condemning you to believe in my opinion.
if you don’t want to, you won’t go to hell. but it sounds to me
like you don’t believe that when one group claims the only truth
for everyone, that is not a form of domination?

i think that is naive, but that’s just my opinion.

Getting what? I was pointing out that your statement is self-defeating. To say that there’s no such thing as absolute, objective truth is a logical contradiction. In order for that statement to be true, there has to be at least one objective truth: that there is no objective truth. But if it is true, then that means it is false.

So if I say that torturing toddlers for fun is objectively wrong, then that means that I am making an act of agression and domination towards those who would otherwise enjoy torturing toddlers for fun?

 

[WindyHair]

Getting what? I was pointing out that your statement is self-defeating. To say that there’s no such thing as absolute, objective truth is a logical contradiction. In order for that statement to be true, there has to be at least one objective truth: that there is no objective truth. But if it is true, then that means it is false.

So if I say that torturing toddlers for fun is objectively wrong, then that means that I am making an act of agression and domination towards those who would otherwise enjoy torturing toddlers for fun?

from a human perspective, torturing toddlers for fun is seen as
wrong by most people. biologically, we all want our offspring
to grow up healthy.

now, there are species that do kill their young. is that morally wrong?
also the greeks did torture their young in a fashion because that
was the environment they were living in. the boys that couldn’t
handle the torture and training either died or became something
else, not a warrior. is that wrong?

 

[Joe_5859]

from a human perspective, torturing toddlers for fun is seen as
wrong by most people. biologically, we all want our offspring
to grow up healthy.

now, there are species that do kill their young. is that morally wrong?
also the greeks did torture their young in a fashion because that
was the environment they were living in. the boys that couldn’t
handle the torture and training either died or became something
else, not a warrior. is that wrong?

In regards to the first question, that raises a whole separate issue: are ethics applied equally to humans and non-humans? That would have to be answered first.

In regards to the second question, I’m not sure what you are referring to. Are you referring to intense training sessions or the practice of “exposing” unwanted children? An intense training session is something a bit different fro torture. Either way, I have no problem saying that they are wrong.

So let me ask you a question: Would you say that, if most people agreed it was okay and if the laws were changed, there’d be no moral problem with kicking a toddler down a flight of stairs just for the heck of it?

 

[edward_george]

i never knew theology to be a branch of philosophy.
i think it’s more correct to say it is a born from ethics/epistemology,
which are branches of philo.

philosophy is the foundation to logic, psychology, ethics,
science, reason, sociology… on and on. philosophy existed long before christianity. it’s just the greeks were able to make western philosophy into a system.

explain how theology is equivalant to philosophy.

in one sentence u say philo contradicts christianity is silly, yet
in the very next you say it’s sometimes anti-christian?
now that’s silly.

In one sentence I said that MODERN philosophy sometimes contradicts Christianity. It is clear from a reading of Kant or Nietzsche that both of them held some exceptionally unorthodox ideals–Nietzsche was even violently opposed to Christianity. However, Aristotle reads almost like a Catholic if you look at him carefully. Aquinas did just that–and so we get his philosophy out of that.

Besides, you contradict yourself–you say that Theology is not a branch of philosophy, then you say it is born out of ethics and epistemology, which are themselves branches of philosophy. It’s not really born out of those things though, although an understanding of the two of them are essential to understanding Theology more deeply. Theology is born out of dogmatic revelation and then the way we systematically understand it.

If philosophy is so opposed to Theology as you say, then why does my Catholic college require all Theology majors to take enough philosophy credits so that they minor in Philosophy by majoring in Theology? (I’m majoring in both, by the way)

-ACEGC