N
nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
DaddyGirl, I would appreciate it if you would answer out of quotes, as it would be much easier to answer.
CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
DaddyGirl, I would appreciate it if you would answer out of quotes, as it would be much easier to answer.
Yes it would affect church doctrine subjectively (how it applies to a person), not objectively (what those doctrines are exactly).So…are you saying if a person does feel or think they are another gender, it will affect church doctrine? I was saying that would not affect it as far as I can see. But you are saying it will indeed affect it?
Your exact words were: “For example, if you marry one person in the church when you are very young and you don’t make a wise choice.” If the Church finds that the parties involved in a marriage were of insufficient maturity to have fully consented to a marriage, then she would declare the marriage “annulled” (that is, there actually wasn’t a valid marriage in the first place).I believe your are incorrect here.
From what I have read here and in the catechism about annulments, you can’t just get an annulment because you don’t “feel” in love with someone or you don’t “feel” attracted to them or you don’t “think” you are in love with them.
(Others, correct me if I’m wrong here).
You have to meet the grounds that the marriage was not “valid” from the start…and those grounds don’t mention anything about feelings or thoughts or physical attraction. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard people, including apologists, say on this forum that “love is not a feeling, it’s a choice.”
We are not privy to the FULL details of that case so I do not think that is a good example to use.If that were the case, (name removed by moderator)my–the poster last week who was refused an annulment of her first marriage-- would not be in so much anguish and have to now leave the Catholic church for Greek Orthodox just so that she can be married to the man she loves and has children with.
It would, again, change the subjectivity of the doctrine, not objectivity. Case in point: masturbation.I think you are incorrect here as well.
Apologists and priests have said many times that even if, for example, homosexuality is proven to be genetic/DNA based…it still would not change church doctrine that same sex marriages can be performed in the Catholic church or that same-sex would not be considered “an abomination”.
The medical findings would not change how a person is supposed to behave, according to doctrine.
Are you saying…it would?
CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
Addiction also changes the brain structure of a person, but does that lessen the objective moral depravity of it? And if pedophilia was shown to have an organic cause (i.e. there is a difference in the brain structures of pedophiles compared to other people), will that lessen its moral depravity?So by the same token, even if what the OP is posting about transgenders is correct and proven by medical experts…are you saying it would change Church doctrine? That the Church would embrace sex change operations? I am saying it would not. Are you saying it would?
I thought one of the the main points about the religion is that the doctrine stays the same.