Does your non-Catholic Christian church teach you about Catholicism?

[guanophore]

Are infants who are baptized considered christian since they have never repented or believed in Christ?

This is a very good question. I think there are way too many infants baptized into Catholic families that are then not discipled. Catechesis is sadly lacking, and they grow up attending Church, but still have never even been evangelized. This parallels several examples in the OT of whole generations of Israelites who were circumcised but did not know their faith. Were they still God’s chosen people? Did they still bear the sign of the covenant?

On another note, baptism of infants is primarily for the purpose of washing away original sin. Once slavery to sin is broken, the soul can be oriented toward God, and can receive the Teaching of Jesus. Babies who are baptized must make a profession of faith when they have reached the age of reason. Repentance and profession of faith happen at every Mass, and baptismal vows are repeated in Confession in the Latin Rite (infants are confirmed and communed in the Eastern Rites). Baptismal vows are also repeated whenever the community baptizes an infant, and annually during the Easter Triduum.

 

[Huguenot]

Same old. Same old. But then this is the Non Christian forum.

CDL

“same old” what ? isn’t this supposed to be a discussion forum ? so everybody has a right to say what she or he believes, why should it be different for me because I don’t agree with infant baptism ?

for me it is very dangerous to make somebody believe he is a Christian because he / she was baptized as an infant …
I don’t know if such cases exist in your country, but in France there are many Catholics ( and Protestants,compared to the total number of Protestants, which can’t be “many” anyhow ) who don’t believe in God at all, or who are totally “indifferent” ; some are declared atheists ; can a declared atheist be a Christian at the same time because he/ she “officially” belongs to the Catholic church or to a Protestant one ?

 

[Huguenot]

I agree with you. It is much more accurate to say that all Christians are Catholic. They may be separated brethren, but since there is only ONE CHURCH and only ONE BODY, it is clear that all validly baptized persons are members of it.

I also agree that there are many (I would say most) persons who call themselves “catholic” who are Catholic in name only, and do not behave according to the Teachings. I think all “cafeteria catholics” are actually Protestants, but don’t realize it. I say that because that is what I was for many years.

Catholics believe that baptism is the rite of initiation into the New Covenant, and replaces circumcision, so we also baptize thise who may not be able to make a profession of faith. We do not see that baptism is withheld from these persons.

I’m not sure “cafeteria Catholics” are necessarily Protestants, in fact I don’t know what you mean by cafeteria Catholics ( are there cafeteria Protestants too ??? and they have a drink together ? )

I don’t think that all “validly baptized” persons are necessarily Christians : what about those who don’t believe in God at all ? In France ( see my preceding answer ) many people who are officially Catholics or Protestants ( compared to the total number of Protestants of course : anyway there aren’t many ! ) are declared atheists : are they Christians because they have been baptised as infants ?
For Evangelicals baptism DOES NOT replace circumcision…
Well if all Christians are Catholics I must be a very heretical one

 

[krissy343]

My non Catholic church doesn’t give a hoot about Catholics or what they believe. My church is only concerned with ministering to Christians and about salvation of souls.

Wow! I know I’m coming in a bit late in the game, but I HAD to respond to this one! Aren’t Christians supposed to love one another? Whether or not you believe that Catholics ARE Christians is besides the point… Actually, it’s not… If you truly believed that we weren’t and were going to be damned to hell if we weren’t “saved”, shouldn’t you be trying to guide us to salvation? Saying that you don’t give a hoot about Catholics sure doesn’t sound like it should be coming from a Christian. You’re in my prayers. God Bless!

 

[guanophore]

for me it is very dangerous to make somebody believe he is a Christian because he / she was baptized as an infant …

I agree. It is just as dangerous as it was for the Jews to think that they belonged to God because they were circumcised. In fact, I think this is one of the main points Paul is making in Rom. 3, when he says that the Jews are not any better off than the Gentiles.

I don’t know if such cases exist in your country, but in France there are many Catholics ( and Protestants,compared to the total number of Protestants, which can’t be “many” anyhow ) who don’t believe in God at all, or who are totally “indifferent” ; some are declared atheists ; can a declared atheist be a Christian at the same time because he/ she “officially” belongs to the Catholic church or to a Protestant one ?

Such persons excommunicate themselves.

I’m not sure “cafeteria Catholics” are necessarily Protestants, in fact I don’t know what you mean by cafeteria Catholics ( are there cafeteria Protestants too ??? and they have a drink together ? )

It means that they pick and choose which Teachings they want to believe and live by, rather than observing “all” as Jesus commanded. So there are many here in the States who rationalize birth control and abortion, but still call themselves “catholic”. Some even sport bumper stickers that say “Catholic and Pro-Choice”. Which is really a way of saying they believe in the “right to abort”.

I don’t think that all “validly baptized” persons are necessarily Christians : what about those who don’t believe in God at all ? In France ( see my preceding answer ) many people who are officially Catholics or Protestants ( compared to the total number of Protestants of course : anyway there aren’t many ! ) are declared atheists : are they Christians because they have been baptised as infants ?

Certainly not, I agree with you. During the baptismal ceremony for the infant, the parents and godparents take vows before God to raise the child in the faith. Many fail to do so.

For Evangelicals baptism DOES NOT replace circumcision…
Well if all Christians are Catholics I must be a very heretical one

I understand about “believers baptism”. I had a couple of them myself, even after I was baptized as an infant, because I was led to believe it did not “count”. Later I learned that this is apostolic teaching.

The Catholic Church teaches that all Christians are Catholic, because there is only ONE CHURCH, therefore, all who are members of Christ are members of His ONE BODY. Most of those who hold heretical doctrines cannot be charged with the sin of heresy, because they were never taught the truth in the first place.

 

[tbuley]

Yes it does, we believe in one Holy catholic (little “c”) and apostolic church.

 

[Huguenot]

I agree. It is just as dangerous as it was for the Jews to think that they belonged to God because they were circumcised. In fact, I think this is one of the main points Paul is making in Rom. 3, when he says that the Jews are not any better off than the Gentiles.

Such persons excommunicate themselves.

It means that they pick and choose which Teachings they want to believe and live by, rather than observing “all” as Jesus commanded. So there are many here in the States who rationalize birth control and abortion, but still call themselves “catholic”. Some even sport bumper stickers that say “Catholic and Pro-Choice”. Which is really a way of saying they believe in the “right to abort”.

Certainly not, I agree with you. During the baptismal ceremony for the infant, the parents and godparents take vows before God to raise the child in the faith. Many fail to do so.

I understand about “believers baptism”. I had a couple of them myself, even after I was baptized as an infant, because I was led to believe it did not “count”. Later I learned that this is apostolic teaching.

The Catholic Church teaches that all Christians are Catholic, because there is only ONE CHURCH, therefore, all who are members of Christ are members of His ONE BODY. Most of those who hold heretical doctrines cannot be charged with the sin of heresy, because they were never taught the truth in the first place.

Thank you for your interesting comments … as far as believer’s baptism is concerned, you said you had “a couple of them” yourself, do you mean you have been baptized several times after you believe ???
I don’t think this practice exists among French Evangelicals : you are baptized after becoming a believer, but only once …

Thanks for your explanations about “cafeteria Catholics”, I didn’t know it …

I still remember the answer you gave me after a message in which I explained all the things I associate myself with when attending Mass, I think that from now on whenever I go to Mass I’ll think of you …your reaction was really encouraging for me …

 

[Jimmy_B]

Catholic Priest HAVE and probably will again said absurd things against Protestants in homilies. I have attended Masses where this happened. Why it IS ridiculous that they do, it’s not unheard of. I have heard why all Protestants will go to hell, and much about the lack of training of Protestant ministers during Homilies. So yes, it has happened that they have talked about us there. But jsut as not all Portestant Ministers preach against Catholics not all Priests behave that way either.

I have never heard talk like this during a Catholic Mass…

 

[Huguenot]

I have never heard talk like this during a Catholic Mass…

Well I haven’t either but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist …I haven’t heard it the other way round either, I mean Protestant ministers preaching against Catholicism … and apparently in your country some do …

 

[justasking4]

This is a very good question. I think there are way too many infants baptized into Catholic families that are then not discipled. Catechesis is sadly lacking, and they grow up attending Church, but still have never even been evangelized. This parallels several examples in the OT of whole generations of Israelites who were circumcised but did not know their faith. Were they still God’s chosen people? Did they still bear the sign of the covenant?

On another note, baptism of infants is primarily for the purpose of washing away original sin. Once slavery to sin is broken, the soul can be oriented toward God, and can receive the Teaching of Jesus. Babies who are baptized must make a profession of faith when they have reached the age of reason. Repentance and profession of faith happen at every Mass, and baptismal vows are repeated in Confession in the Latin Rite (infants are confirmed and communed in the Eastern Rites). Baptismal vows are also repeated whenever the community baptizes an infant, and annually during the Easter Triduum.

Are babies who are baptized still in slavery or are they free?

 

[guanophore]

Thank you for your interesting comments … as far as believer’s baptism is concerned, you said you had “a couple of them” yourself, do you mean you have been baptized several times after you believe ???
I don’t think this practice exists among French Evangelicals : you are baptized after becoming a believer, but only once …

I was young, and ignorant.

Thanks for your explanations about “cafeteria Catholics”, I didn’t know it …

I still remember the answer you gave me after a message in which I explained all the things I associate myself with when attending Mass, I think that from now on whenever I go to Mass I’ll think of you …your reaction was really encouraging for me …

I hope that you will keep me in prayer while you are there.

 

[guanophore]

Are babies who are baptized still in slavery or are they free?

This is an interesting question, since they have not reached a point to be able to make decisions about sinning. All we can say is that they are free from the bondage of original sin. In order to maintain that state of grace, they have to be raised in the faith, and make choices that will not return them again to slavery.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Does your non-Catholic Christian church teach you about Catholicism?

What have you heard? Is it a secret, or can you share it with us?

What does your non-Catholic Christian Church teach you about Catholicism? Be honest and don’t pull any punches, we Catholics can handle it.

Are there any specific things about Catholicism that are keeping you from ever becoming Catholic?

Please share with us Catholics a summary of what it is that you are actually taught or what it is that you believe about Catholicism.

No, they don’t. Why would they? It’s a Lutheran church that is focused on the message of the Bible and on social programs we have going on. It seems silly for a Lutheran church (or any other) to teach a contrary denominations beliefs.

Peace…

MW

 

[guanophore]

No, they don’t. Why would they? It’s a Lutheran church that is focused on the message of the Bible and on social programs we have going on. It seems silly for a Lutheran church (or any other) to teach a contrary denominations beliefs.

Peace…

MW

In light of this, I guess my question would be, how did you come to learn that Catholics have “contrary beliefs”? It seems like a person would have to, in some extent, be taught what they are.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

In light of this, I guess my question would be, how did you come to learn that Catholics have “contrary beliefs”? It seems like a person would have to, in some extent, be taught what they are.

One’s personal treading of the path and discovery is different than being taught in a Lutheran church on Sunday about what Catholics believe. We are taught Lutheran doctrines and Bible doctrines, not Catholic doctrines. We would be Catholics if we taught about Catholicism I would think.

For me, when I became an adult I began to search out what others believe, including Mormons, Catholics, and even various other religions. I went through them all and found they were all imperfect like my own faith. We’re all in the same boat, in my opinion. We all miss the boat on some things, but we all get some things right

Peace…

MW

 

[Anthony02]

I like a little lively debate. It’s good for the education of everyone involved (including me sometimes )
It might be wrong in your eyes, but my church does not recognize all baptisms. Catholics do recognize any “Father, Son, Holy Spirit” baptisms from other faiths, as I am aware.
It would be after the child’s profession of faith, if they desire to do so. If the child doesn’t want it, then that is perfectly fine. I did my best. It’s going to be a hard road, but if I don’t convert…my sig. other has approved of bringing the child up in both faiths. Well, she says that now. I get the feeling that will change in a few years. Between now and then, she may finally realize what the Catholic Church believes (she is a reed in the wind, being blown around by a lack of being properly catechized in the Catholic faith)…or she will just grow to dislike attending both churches. I made this topic into a new thread, btw. I’m trying not to take this thread too far off-topic

-Mark

What are you doing to keep her from despising either church? It sounds as though she is willing to jump through hoops for you, but you won’t meet her half way. Why don’t you both study about each others religious beliefs. By the way, your plan sucks and is going to confuse the hell out of your kid if you raise them in both faiths. Both churches cannot be the one true church.

 

[Huguenot]

I was young, and ignorant.

I hope that you will keep me in prayer while you are there.

I’ll pray for you even when I’m not “there” ( on the forum ) …
Once you said maybe I’m more Catholic than I think …
Are you sure you’re not more Protestant than you think ? :hug1:

 

[peary]

I can only attest to what Southern Baptists/Landmarkist do. I grew up in a small church in the Upstate of South Carolina that commonly mentioned “the whore of Babylon” and went to great pains to make the congregation aware of Catholicism. I remember when Pope John Paul II came to Columbia, S.C. back in the '80’s. Our pastor gave an entire sermon on how the anti-Christ was visiting our state.

Add in the Bob Jones University factor. Nestled in between two large highways in Greenville (Pleasantburg Dr. and Wade Hampton Blvd.), the school the runs from preschool all the way through post-grad. It’s notoriously anti-Catholic.

It’s sad that people can be so gullible, stupid, and just downright ignorant to believe such nonsense. But, as a Baptist once told me, “If the KJV was good enuff fer St. Paul, then it’s good enuff for me!” Go figure.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

I have grown up as a Southern Baptist, only in two different churches. In my first church I remember a Sunday School teacher, that I still care a lot about and admire, speaking about Catholics in a lesson one morning, saying they weren’t Christians ect. I spoke up and asked in a sincere and respectful tone, “so what about the people before the reformation for about 1500 years, did they all go to Hell?”

He didn’t have an answer, nor could he answer about how the Biblical Canon could have been formed by these “Pagan Roman imposter Christians”.

My current pastor once mentioned when giving a sermon on the reliability of scripture about why we don’t accept the Old Testament books that Catholics do, but he was very brief on that as well.

My pastor has actually quoted G.K. Chesterton before in a sermon, also many Anglican writers as well, so I think he’s still pretty open minded when it comes to denominations. I don’t think I could stay in a church that started talking about the Whore of Babylon being the Catholic Church and the Pope being the anti-Christ and all that garbage.

I love and respect my Catholic friends, and have learned so much from Catholic teachers and writers about my own Faith and walk with Christ. Which of course is a big reason why I’m here, and wanting to keep learning about the Faith.

Most SBC’s will vary a whole lot on the level of “fundamentalism” present. That’s been my experience anyways.

~Josh

 

[peary]

I grew up Baptist and know very well that many Baptists DO preach anti-Catholicism. It’s their bread-and-butter it seems. Bob Jones University in Greenville, S.C. is fervantly anti-Catholic and trains its students – from preschool to grad school – in such beliefs. Heck, most of the Baptist churches in the Upstate of South Carolina are anti-Catholic and generally hold interchurch anti-Catholic conferences every few years to teach their flocks about how to “deal” with Catholics.

By chance might there be someone out there to teach the flocks how to deal with “stupidity”?