Dominican Third Order?

[JReducation]

Verrrry Interesting.

Being welcoming always attracts and retains folks.

It’s funny that you should say that. As we get ready for the separation of the two communities, I have been meeting with the brothers who are staying. Just this morning I said to them, “Remember, the first face that a person sees when the door is answered, must always be the face of Christ.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Melchior_1]

Re-read the entire thread, seems I missed a few pages. I’ve been praying for you Jason, and will continue to do so (now with the current situation in mind).

I told my wife about the Secular Franciscans and attending their meeting, and she was a bit down on the idea. Previously I explained the differences between the Dominicans and Franciscans, she loved the Dominicans (namely the studying). She of course knows of the great Franciscan scholars, and has great admiration of Francis himself. I think the big thing she has an issue with is that she is worried that we’d have to live very simply and not get “wants”. My wife isn’t materialistic, but she doesn’t share my love of voluntary poverty. She’s going to the meeting with an open mind though.

So much about both Orders I love, and they do have similarities. That’s what always had made this difficult, and I must admit I’m having a difficult time separating how one group is communicating versus the other.

 

[Marauder]

I told my wife about the Secular Franciscans and attending their meeting, and she was a bit down on the idea. Previously I explained the differences between the Dominicans and Franciscans, she loved the Dominicans (namely the studying). She of course knows of the great Franciscan scholars, and has great admiration of Francis himself. I think the big thing she has an issue with is that she is worried that we’d have to live very simply and not get “wants”. My wife isn’t materialistic, but she doesn’t share my love of voluntary poverty. She’s going to the meeting with an open mind though.

Remember that joining an Order is a calling, not like joining a social club. Just because you may feel called to joining doesn’t mean your wife may feel called. It is entirely possible she may feel more called to the Dominicans and you more called to the Franciscans. Each person should investigate their own path. Like you said both groups, especially in their secular groups, allow for enough variance in your personal spiritual life that you can still have Dominican study habits or Franciscan detachment in the other Order. Another thing to think about is that joining a secular Order does not mean you are taking a vow of poverty. It also doesn’t mean that you are forcing others in your life to do the same thing. I am a husband and a father to two young kids. They did not join the Secular Franciscans and I cannot bind them to that life. I have to look at all purchases both as a Franciscan and as a father.

 

[Melchior_1]

Remember that joining an Order is a calling, not like joining a social club. Just because you may feel called to joining doesn’t mean your wife may feel called. It is entirely possible she may feel more called to the Dominicans and you more called to the Franciscans. Each person should investigate their own path. Like you said both groups, especially in their secular groups, allow for enough variance in your personal spiritual life that you can still have Dominican study habits or Franciscan detachment in the other Order. Another thing to think about is that joining a secular Order does not mean you are taking a vow of poverty. It also doesn’t mean that you are forcing others in your life to do the same thing. I am a husband and a father to two young kids. They did not join the Secular Franciscans and I cannot bind them to that life. I have to look at all purchases both as a Franciscan and as a father.

All very true. If she isn’t called, she isn’t called. As much as we want to do something like this together, that might not be what happens.

 

[jwinch2]

Re-read the entire thread, seems I missed a few pages. I’ve been praying for you Jason, and will continue to do so (now with the current situation in mind).

Thanks. I appreciate that a great deal.

My wife and I looked into the Lay Dominicans together as well. She went to two meetings and figured out pretty quick that it was not for her. That’s OK, not much you can do about it.

Cheers,

 

[Melchior_1]

Thanks. I appreciate that a great deal.

My wife and I looked into the Lay Dominicans together as well. She went to two meetings and figured out pretty quick that it was not for her. That’s OK, not much you can do about it.

Cheers,

Agreed, it’s very much a personal thing. But I’m glad she’ll go with me, and she’s been incredibly patient with me with this process.

Maybe I should flip a coin! It doesn’t help that my Salesian buddy told me “either one will bring you closer to holiness!”. Thanks Brother Jim, but that doesn’t help, I wanted concrete evidence directed towards one!

This will still take time to discern. I’m mendicant through and through, so my choice is a bit different than yours is currently (although like Brother JR said, Dominicans to have a bit of a monastic streak).

Then again…maybe I’m over-thinking the entire process. Like you, Jason, perhaps I was drawn to the Dominicans for the same reasons you were. Perhaps Occam’s Razor should be applied; my birthday is October 4th, I came back to the Church at a Franciscan conference.

Either way, I know Dominic and Francis are watching over me. I ask both for help constantly. They will both be my fathers regardless, and despite formation not being started yet they are both my fathers currently. At some point, I will be a member of the family. And like any son, all I want to do is make them proud. I want to do the right thing by them, and the right thing for them.

Am I approaching this wrong?

 

[jwinch2]

Am I approaching this wrong?

I don’t think so. You are approaching it openly, honestly, and sincerely.

 

[Marauder]

Am I approaching this wrong?

The key is to let God do his “magic”. Let him guide you. Yes you have to do your research. Yes you have to be pro-active. Above all pray about it. The best solution will eventually feel like a glove or shoe fitting you perfectly. Do not try to force it. It is natural to have doubts and feel you may not be worthy and things like that, that is part of the human condition. But it will feel right if you are doing the right thing. You will not let little obstacles get in the way. If you feel called to both the Dominicans and the Franciscans, check out both. Any investigation of your spirituality should be seen as a win/win scenario.

For all you know, during you discernment your path may take you to something totally different, neither Franciscan or Dominican, the key is trying to be open to wherever God takes you.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Agreed, it’s very much a personal thing. But I’m glad she’ll go with me, and she’s been incredibly patient with me with this process.

Maybe I should flip a coin! It doesn’t help that my Salesian buddy told me “either one will bring you closer to holiness!”. Thanks Brother Jim, but that doesn’t help, I wanted concrete evidence directed towards one!

This will still take time to discern. I’m mendicant through and through, so my choice is a bit different than yours is currently (although like Brother JR said, Dominicans to have a bit of a monastic streak).

Then again…maybe I’m over-thinking the entire process. Like you, Jason, perhaps I was drawn to the Dominicans for the same reasons you were. Perhaps Occam’s Razor should be applied; my birthday is October 4th, I came back to the Church at a Franciscan conference.

Either way, I know Dominic and Francis are watching over me. I ask both for help constantly. They will both be my fathers regardless, and despite formation not being started yet they are both my fathers currently. At some point, I will be a member of the family. And like any son, all I want to do is make them proud. I want to do the right thing by them, and the right thing for them.

Am I approaching this wrong?

Go to a quiet place (before the Blessed Sacrament would be perfect) and ask Him what to do. He’ll tell you

 

[Melchior_1]

Go to a quiet place (before the Blessed Sacrament would be perfect) and ask Him what to do. He’ll tell you

A capital idea! I’ve been doing this, but it never hurts to do more. I might fast an extra day a week as well.

Like I said, big conference coming up that I’m doing music at. I’m thinking that will provide some guidance.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

A capital idea! I’ve been doing this, but it never hurts to do more. I might fast an extra day a week as well.

Like I said, big conference coming up that I’m doing music at. I’m thinking that will provide some guidance.

Prayers offered that you make the right choice

 

[JReducation]

The key is to let God do his “magic”. Let him guide you. Yes you have to do your research. Yes you have to be pro-active. Above all pray about it. The best solution will eventually feel like a glove or shoe fitting you perfectly. Do not try to force it. It is natural to have doubts and feel you may not be worthy and things like that, that is part of the human condition. But it will feel right if you are doing the right thing. You will not let little obstacles get in the way. If you feel called to both the Dominicans and the Franciscans, check out both. Any investigation of your spirituality should be seen as a win/win scenario.

For all you know, during you discernment your path may take you to something totally different, neither Franciscan or Dominican, the key is trying to be open to wherever God takes you.

You reminded me of an experience from my past. When I was in college, I had a roommate who felt the call to be a Capuchin Franciscan Friar. He did everything that they required. At the end of the day, the admission team turned him down. He went to the Observant Franciscans (OFM) and again went through the same things. Again, he was turned down. One day, he was talking to me and I suggested that we go to mass and pray about it.

There was a Dominican priory within walking distance of the university so we wen there. After mass, we got to talking to some friars and they invited us back. I never went back. I should say, I went back 12 years later. My friend, Jim, went back. He visited and visited, but was hesitant to make a move until I finally told him that he had nothing to lose. He applied. It’s been 30 years since. He’s a very happy Dominican Friar.

God walks us down very strange roads to get us home.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Fantastic story, brother

 

[Captain_America]

Just let God do with you as he wishes; for some guys, it’s a quick bolt of lightning, for others it’s a different signal. Me, I just growed into it. It fits who I am.

 

[jwinch2]

Hello everyone,

I don’t want to derail the thread any further, but I do want to give a follow-up to my earlier posts about the possibility of exploring Benedictine Spirituality and perhaps becoming an Oblate. I have been doing quite a bit of reading and speaking with others for the past couple of months and remain very interested. At this time, which you can probably tell by my choice of avatar, I feel fairly strongly that God is calling me that direction. Though, to be fair, it is still very early in the process.

I will be attending an Oblate retreat at Subiaco Abbey late this summer. After that, I should have much better idea if that is the correct direction or not. I have contacted several monasteries to see which ones might be a good fit for what I am looking for and where I might be a good fit for them as well and which are within reasonable driving distance. Frankly, that is not as easy as I originally thought. Regardless, by the time the retreat rolls around I will have done quite a bit more reading and a whole bunch more prayer, so I should be in good position to learn and hopefully open to the workings of the Holy Spirit while I am at the Abbey.

Thanks to everyone for their prayers!

Peace,

Jason

 

[JReducation]

Hello everyone,

I don’t want to derail the thread any further, but I do want to give a follow-up to my earlier posts about the possibility of exploring Benedictine Spirituality and perhaps becoming an Oblate. I have been doing quite a bit of reading and speaking with others for the past couple of months and remain very interested. At this time, which you can probably tell by my choice of avatar, I feel fairly strongly that God is calling me that direction. Though, to be fair, it is still very early in the process.

I will be attending an Oblate retreat at Subiaco Abbey late this summer. After that, I should have much better idea if that is the correct direction or not. I have contacted several monasteries to see which ones might be a good fit for what I am looking for and where I might be a good fit for them as well and which are within reasonable driving distance. Frankly, that is not as easy as I originally thought. Regardless, by the time the retreat rolls around I will have done quite a bit more reading and a whole bunch more prayer, so I should be in good position to learn and hopefully open to the workings of the Holy Spirit while I am at the Abbey.

Thanks to everyone for their prayers!

Peace,

Jason

Well Jason, I will continue to pray for you. If you can get your hands on it, read a book by Benedict Groeschel, CFR called Everyday Encounters With God, especially chapters 3 and 5.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

Well Jason, I will continue to pray for you. If you can get your hands on it, read a book by Benedict Groeschel, CFR called Everyday Encounters With God, especially chapters 3 and 5.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thanks for the prayers and for the recommendation on the book. I will check it out!

Peace,

 

[Melchior_1]

We’re sitting at eighteen pages now for this thread, and it’s incredible how God leads people to where they are supposed to be. And it turns out for two people now, what started as a “shazam, Lay Dominicans!” has become “I think God is calling me some place else”. Although in my case, it’s not a large leap.

It seems as if that my good friend Brother Jim’s idea of “the spirituality of geography” is coming into play once more. Brother Jim told me that due to there being zero Saelisian co-operators in the area, I could rule them out. Using that logic, the constant disorganization and total lack of meetings/contact from those in the Priory is probably a good indicator that perhaps that place shouldn’t be in the running either. The fact the the other group contacted me ON THE SAME DAY was a big plus. That and something else…

What Jason said before, that his job involved teaching/thinking/research, and that his personality was like that…it made sense. The intellectual side of Dominicans appealed to me, the contemplative did too. However a couple things I couldn’t shake;

1. Fraternity and fellowship is critical, and I felt as if I wouldn’t get that from the local Dominican group.
2. I feel drawn to what I call the “lunchbox” Catholicism. You grab your lunchbox, and do what needs to be done to get the job done.
3. The nagging feeling that I was over thinking things. By a lot. Some things just line up perfectly, but too perfectly, so you start doubting if it’s really all that perfect. Things like having ones life saved at a conference being run by a religious order, and happening to be born on the founder of said order’s feast day. It seemed too neat’n’tidy.

But sometimes…I guess the easiest answer is the right one. The right one all along. A few years ago I’d be angry at myself for “wasting this time”, but no time was wasted. It’s a learning process, a journey we take in our walk with God.

Talking things through with my wife has helped out, as had discussing things with others. Several posters here have helped. Specifically TrueLight, Marauder, Timothy, you’ve all been wonderful. And of course Brother JR, who I can’t thank enough for his wisdom and patience.

And of course Jason. Our respective vocational paths are in this thread! Crazy stuff.

Anyway, the group I’m looking at is taking two months off for the summer, which gives me some time to read up on a few things. Maybe actually finishing a book for once! But the group seems established, and I can easily fit it into my schedule.

Plus, interestingly enough…they’re trying to start a young adults ministry. Which dovetails nicely into the aposolate I’ve been doing for nine years.

 

[Captain_America]

M., as you note, it’s interesting reading the different takes on it. I DO think this is a subject that can be OVER-analyzed (more likely than under-analyzed), and of course, when this happens, many people will tend to fence-sit wavering endlessly.

And our culture doesn’t really much prize long-term commitment and definitional acts of personhood.

It’s likely that just as there are other women who would have been a good spouse for me, there are other associations, third orders, etc., that would have worked for me. Adding spice to the mix is that the various orders have their charisms, which endure and have appeal because they DO connect with deeply important aspects of human life. So it can all look good.

For me, I think actually DOING it, making the commitment, is what’s valuable. And of course in this life, not anything is perfect.

 

[Melchior_1]

M., as you note, it’s interesting reading the different takes on it. I DO think this is a subject that can be OVER-analyzed (more likely than under-analyzed), and of course, when this happens, many people will tend to fence-sit wavering endlessly.

And our culture doesn’t really much prize long-term commitment and definitional acts of personhood.

It’s likely that just as there are other women who would have been a good spouse for me, there are other associations, third orders, etc., that would have worked for me. Adding spice to the mix is that the various orders have their charisms, which endure and have appeal because they DO connect with deeply important aspects of human life. So it can all look good.

For me, I think actually DOING it, making the commitment, is what’s valuable. And of course in this life, not anything is perfect.

Very astute, Mr. Rogers.