Don Lemon: Even Most Skeptical Black, ‘Gay Folks’ Wanted to Believe Smollett

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Cathoholic said:
just saw the same motif with the innocent Covington Catholic boy being used by leftists to demonize other innocent people too
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Slight correction…we are STILL seeing this tactic by leftists, some on these very boards.
 
dvdjs . . .
The data that we have indicates it.
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No it doesn’t. At least as far as I can tell.

Why not just show me “data” that factors out hoaxes, shows criminal convictions, and takes into account local DA biases?

Jussie’s story was being touted as a “hate crime” too.

But nobody now thinks it was (had not this hoax been uncovered, it would have gone into your “hate crimes” catagory).

We still don’t know for sure what it was, it may be Jussie is having issues with reality. But we have very good evidence it WASN’T a “hate crime” (unless of course you can see that it is Jussie that is the one committing the hate crime).
 
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Cathoholic said:
Why not just show me “data” that factors out hoaxes, shows criminal convictions , and takes into account local DA biases?
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The FBI data reports crimes.
You may be skpetical of the methodology, but that is the data that we have,
I am open to you producing data that that clarifies issues of hidden proprietorial misconduct and the like.
But I am not interested in discussing such matters without foundation.
 
Cathoholic said:
It suggests (to me anyway) that there are some people who WANT bad race relations.
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Of course there are “some”…but, to you, perhaps what you think it suggests might be jaundiced…especially if you want to believe there are (more than some) people who want bad race relations; but that’s only a question you can answer…its not a matter of those who wanted to believe Smollett wanted bad race relations…that’s a preposterous stretch…wanting to believe that there is enough hatred in the world, is far different from wanting their to be that hatred to have an excuse to perpetuate more.
 
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Theo520 said:
Read the article I quoted.
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For the article and links, I see about 400 hate-crime hoaxes over a period of at least 30 years, and 7000 hate crimes in 2017 alone. So hate-crime hoaxes are very rare (~500:1) as compared to hate-crimes.

And 7000 is said to be smaller the number of incidents of other types of crimes, but it does average to ~20 incidents per day. That might be considered common place. As common as major league professional sports events.
Theo520 said:
What does “hate crime” mean in your analysis?
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What the FBI reports, by law, as “hate crimes”
 
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Read what I actually said, not what you wish.

Violent racism is very rare in the US.

The article doesn’t dispute this, nor do your sources.
 
Theo520 said:
Violent racism
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Your article talked of brutally violent racism , and segued to murder.
There is very little brutally violent racism in the modern USA. …
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But the number of crimes against persons - for intimidation, assault, aggravated assault, rape, and killing was over 5000 in the 2017 FBI report. This is far more common that hoaxes, this the headline says are “more common than you think”.
 
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Theo520 said:
exercise your grey cells
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Disagreement is fair play, but as a someone having experienced (and still, from time to time experiencing) transient ischemic attack, I find this extremely offensive…I wish you would rethink it, and consider removing it on your own.
 
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dvdjs said:
But the number of crimes against persons - for intimidation, assault, aggravated assault, rape, and killing was over 5000 in the 2017 FBI report. This is far more common that hoaxes, this the headline says are “more common than you think”.
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I think you misrepresent your source.

How many rapes and killings were classified as hate crimes? How many aggravated assaults (violent)?

Then let’s compare that to white on white, and black on black killings.
It’ll help you prioritize.
 
Theo520 said:
I think you misrepresent your source.
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What are you accusing me of misrepresenting?

You seem to think that it is somehow appropriate to make a comparison of hate-crime rates to rates all crimes that do not have the component of hate? I am not sure why you think that that is the important comparison, rather that looking at the number of hate crimes and putting thatinto a context that shows that they are more common than some may think.
Theo520 said:
It’ll help you prioritize.
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I have already expressed that this case is much ado about nothing.
I attach far greater priority to the Hasson case.
 
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Here is what your source says
Of the 8,437 reported hate crime offenses in 2017:
  • 27.6 percent were destruction/damage/vandalism
  • 27.1 percent were intimidation.
  • 20.7 percent were simple assault.
  • 11.7 percent were aggravated assault.
  • The remaining offenses included additional crimes against persons, property, and society.

Offenses by crime category (Based on [Table 2]​

Among the 8,437 hate crime offenses reported:
  • 60.3 percent were crimes against persons.
  • 36.9 percent were crimes against property.
  • The remaining offenses were crimes against society. (See Data Collection in [Methodology]

Crimes against persons (Based on [Table 2])​

Law enforcement reported 5,084 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:
  • 44.9 percent were intimidation.
  • 34.3 percent were simple assault.
  • 19.5 percent were aggravated assault.
  • 0.7 percent consisted of 15 murders and 23 rapes. (See [Methodology] for more details about changes in the definition of rape in the UCR Program.)
  • 1 offense was reported as human trafficking, commercial sex acts.
  • 0.5 percent involved the offense category other , which is collected only in NIBRS.
So aggravated assault is significant but ‘murder and rape’ are combined well below 1% of the reported hate crime offenses.

For comparison, we had over 17,000 total murders in 2017 (vs 15 tagged as hate crimes). That’s less than a tenth of 1%.

Hate crimes in the US are tagged as vandalism, intimidation, and simple assault (also intimidation). That is where the focus should be.

for reference to all,
Assaults that do not involve the use of a firearm, knife or cutting instrument, or other dangerous weapon and in which the victim did not sustain serious or aggravated injuries are reported as Other Assaults–Simple, Not Aggravated.
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Theo520 said:
Here is what your source says
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Yes. That is what it says.
What, specifically, justifies your accusation of misrepresentation?
How many hate-crimes of violence - which include assault and arguably intimidation - need to occur before they are not thought of as being "very rare’?
 
Matthew Sheppard is another great example of Faux Hate Crimes.

His death was horrible, but wasn’t a homophobic hate crime. The media rode that one all the way to Congress to implement greater penalties for a crime that didn’t happen.

James Byrd was an actual victim of a hate crime and unfortunately must share billing with Shepard for more stringent penalties. Even without the new law his assailants are being executed or facing life in prison.

Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr., Hate Crimes Prevention Act. I don’t see how this law will prevent crimes from people already facing death or life in prison in all the states.

If we want to make a difference, put in more stringent penalties for vandalism motivated by racism
 
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