Donald Trump Calls for Barring Muslims From Entering U.S

[Good_Tidings]

Thank you, Gilliam and Murmurs, for posting informative reads.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The United States is waging a proxy war against Assad, and it’s also bombing Syrian infrastructure under the guise of a war on ISIS. The Americans I described support this. That means that they are supporting a war whose sole aim is toppling a Democratic government. So what I said is entirely true and factual. It’s the same old story: the United States doesn’t like a popular, Democratically elected leader, so it uses various well-worn methods to topple that leader and install someone new. We have a history of doing this all over the globe.

If we actually wanted to destroy ISIS, we could definitely do it. The way that that would be accomplished is by supporting Assad. ISIS could be wiped out utterly. But we’re choosing to do precisely the opposite, which means things are not what they seem. Once we finally succeed in murdering Assad, the region will descend into permanent bloody chaos. The U.S. knows this and is intent on making it happen. The only way that scenario wouldn’t happen is if the United States stayed there forever. So we’re supporting terrorism and warring on Democracy - there’s really no other way to honestly analyze what’s happening. My point earlier was simply that patriotic Americans are those people who are thoroughly disgusted with American foreign policy because, among other reasons, ultimately this is as much a war on the American populace as it is on Syrians and other Middle Easterners. If Syrian terrorists are imported here, it’s purely deliberate and by design. With the money we’re wasting giving to Jihadists and warring on Assad, we could simply rebuild their country for them, so there wouldn’t even be any refugees.

Syria wasn’t, and isn’t, a democracy. I agree the U.S. could wipe out ISIS, but this administration won’t do it. Therefore, I believe it is likely going to be too late to do it after Obama is out of office. Syria and Iraq will be possessions of Russia and Iran, with perhaps a tributary de facto rump “state” of the Kurds and possibly some Sunni enclaves. It’s very late in the game, and the U.S. really isn’t even in it. The big question is whether Turkey is going to do something to stop its enemy, Iran.

 

[gilliam]

Syria wasn’t, and isn’t, a democracy. I agree the U.S. could wipe out ISIS, but this administration won’t do it. Therefore, I believe it is likely going to be too late to do it after Obama is out of office. Syria and Iraq will be possessions of Russia and Iran, with perhaps a tributary de facto rump “state” of the Kurds and possibly some Sunni enclaves. It’s very late in the game, and the U.S. really isn’t even in it. The big question is whether Turkey is going to do something to stop its enemy, Iran.

I’m not sure the US leaders really wanted to turn Syria into a democracy. I think they just wanted Assad out because he was killing civilian protesters. However now getting Assad out may not be as much a priority as ending the civil war.

 

[sarah_j]

A little more of what Trump said in his own defense:

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump double-downed today on his proposal to temporarily bar all Muslims from entering the United States.

“Something has to be done,” Trump told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos during an interview on “Good Morning America.” “What I’m doing is calling very simply for Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Trump’s plan would block all Muslims from entering the United States, with an exception for U.S. citizens who are Muslim, who would come and go as they wish.** He hopes the ban “will go quickly,” as soon as “our leaders figure out what the hell is going on,**” Trump said.

“If a person is a Muslim, goes overseas and comes back, they can come back. They’re a citizen. That’s different,” Trump said. “But we have to figure things out.”

abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-stands-barring-muslims-criticism/story?id=35640361

I don’t see anything wrong with TEMPORARILY banning possible terrrorists
from entering the country.
Under the current circumstances, I think it’s pure insanity to allow masses of people
who may have terrorist ties to have entry to the country.
Trump isn’t talking about a permanent ban on Muslims. He’s talking about
temporarily stopping immigration until the Feds can get a handle on the situation.
It’s crazy to keep letting more and more people into the country without properly
vetting them. Give the Feds a breather for goodness sake. We’ve seen in San
Bernardino the damage caused when ONE person slips through the cracks
in the vetting process.

And if it’s illegal to stop only Muslims from entering the country, let the Feds
stop issuing ALL visas.
I heard on the radio that we issue over 150,000 student visas to Saudi Arabians.
Some of the 911 terrorists came here on student visas, didn’t they?

Trump isn’t my favorite candidate, but I will say that he does appear to have as
his number 1 interest the protection of the U.S. I think that’s what people
respond to. We have had a president for the past 7 years who is more interested
in apologizing for America instead of protecting it.

 

[Saints_Alive]

A little more of what Trump said in his own defense:

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump double-downed today on his proposal to temporarily bar all Muslims from entering the United States.

“Something has to be done,” Trump told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos during an interview on “Good Morning America.” “What I’m doing is calling very simply for Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Trump’s plan would block all Muslims from entering the United States, with an exception for U.S. citizens who are Muslim, who would come and go as they wish. He hopes the ban “will go quickly,” as soon as “our leaders figure out what the hell is going on,” Trump said.

“If a person is a Muslim, goes overseas and comes back, they can come back. They’re a citizen. That’s different,” Trump said. “But we have to figure things out.”

He said his plan has been met with praise despite his opponents’ coming out overnight slamming it.

The plan has been compared to Japanese internment camps used by President Franklin Roosevelt during World War II, but Trump says he has no interest in internment camps. "This is a president highly respected by all, he did the same thing,” Trump said. “If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. I mean, he was talking about the Germans because we’re at war.

“We are now at war,” Trump added. "We have a president that doesn’t want to say that, but we are now at war.”

abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-stands-barring-muslims-criticism/story?id=35640361

:clapping:

Bravo Mr. Trump

 

[Saints_Alive]

I’m nearing 60 years old and for the first time in my life I’m hearing lifelong Democrats saying they will vote Republican - if Trump is the nominee.

 

[exnihilo]

This country has been inundated by immigration for some time now. The myth of the melting pot has been promoted as never before. The reality is multicultural societies never last. We have no duty to destroy our culture. In fact we have a duty to save it.

It is a fatal flaw to think that Secular Humanism is a natural ideology. In fact it is just Christian ethics without Christianity. You won’t find it in the rest of the world since it wasn’t Christian or hasn’t been recently. You won’t even find the great pagan cultures of the Greeks and Romans which were receptive to Christianity thanks to good, rational thinking.

What you’ll find in much of the world is a ideology that is incompatible with the notions of tolerance and justice we have in the West. What you’ll find are ideologies that promotes nothingness or raw power. One destroys thoughts by a worldview that all is illusion. The other destroys thought by saying God is pure, arbitrary power and that in service to God anything is justified. These ideologies are incompatible with our culture. They can’t be absorbed into our culture. We can tolerate some small amount of them but must be careful. Too much of these ideologies will disrupt our culture. As evidenced among other things by our promotion of war, divorce, abortion and homosexuality our culture is already gravely wounded from within. If we are to save it the last thing we want to do is further destabilize society intentionally.

I forget where I read it (might have been NYT?), but someone recently described Trump as a fascist. Not necessarily meaning it in a Nazi-like pejorative way, but his combination of populism, nationalism, intolerance of analytical nuanced thinking about problems, and celebrating a kind of violent masculinity, rather fits a standard description of it. I wouldn’t for a moment suggest Trump is anything like as ‘evil’ as the historical figure you were thinking of, Good Tidings, but he does at least seem to operate in a slightly similar way (albeit thankfully without the brownshirts).

It seems to me almost all politicians promote nationalism and, like the people they represent, avoid any nuanced thinking. Most politicians are in favor of a political system that promotes corporate power to be used in coordination with the state. This is basic fascism. The word has a negative connotation, as it should, but for what are perceived wrongly as excesses rather than essential characteristics of the ideology. It is like how some insist that communism will work it just hasn’t been tried when it very much has been tried and the results are always an evil, repressive state just as you’d expect.

 

[Vouthon]

The Republican Party is conservative in the American sense of the term, which is to say “classically liberal” in European terms - think John Locke and his philosophical justification for the rights to life, liberty and property.

Surely what Trump is suggesting is the total inversion of this political philosophy? Since when was freedom measured by internment camps for a whole group of people, holus bolus, depriving them of the rights guaranteed by natural law, international humanitarian law and in the case of Muslim US citizens by the constitution and Bill of rights? Or excluding an entire group of people based simply on their religion, which most of them were likely brought up in?

Trump praises FDR’s internment of Japanese Americans, one of the darkest episodes in modern US history.

How sad to see how Republican voters have become, if this man is supposedly still ascendant in the polls.

During WWII it was a Republican senator who questioned the morality and legality of interning Japanese Americans:

**Colorado Governor Ralph L. Carr welcomed the Japanese-American internees into his state, embracing them as citizens who deserved dignified and just treatment during their incarceration. Governor Carr served from 1939-1943, but his relatively short tenure produced heaps of documents that testify to his compassion for and genuine interest in the Japanese families conscripted to his state.

Governor Carr spoke out stridently against the internment of Japanese-Americans as “inhumane and unconstitutional.” He compiled numerous documents consisting of his personal communications with Japanese inmates at the Amache facility, their family members, and other citizens who were concerned about their treatment. A Republican, Carr supported Roosevelt’s war efforts, but he openly questioned the internment of Japanese-American citizens. In his speeches and writings he opposed measures that stripped Japanese-Americans of their civil rights, not to mention their personal property, and which treated them as war criminals.

He pressed against the popular tide of racism and fear that produced things like highway billboards that screamed “Japs Keep Going!” Though unable to override the military’s authority to imprison innocent Japanese-Americans in his state, Carr worked tirelessly as an advocate, not to mention to help them retain their status as American citizens.**

americanthinker.com/2011/12/the_lone_politician_who_stood_against_japanese_internment.html#ixzz3tjoilgfj

Thank God Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham have condemned these palpably illiberal, unconstitutional and inhumane statements by Donald Trump.

I don’t think for a minute that he represents or even understands the values of the Republican Party. Foreigner though I am, I know for a fact that it wasn’t founded on the values he holds.

 

[sarah_j]

Trump is NOT talking about internment camps.

But Trump also insisted that he is not proposing “internment camps” like those that held Japanese Americans during World War II.
“We’re not talking about internment. This is a whole different thing,”

nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-defends-muslim-ban-common-sense-n476086

 

[Vouthon]

I’m nearing 60 years old and for the first time in my life I’m hearing lifelong Democrats saying they will vote Republican - if Trump is the nominee.

Well, it was a democrat president who ordered the internment of Japanese Americans and the deprivation of their citizenship rights, so perhaps the democrats you mention are fond of the idea of a government discriminating against its own citizens and denying them fundamental freedoms.

Anyone right or left, republican or democrat who believes in the need for a constitutional government, individual liberty and equality under the law for all people irespective of their race, colour, religion, gender, social class et all- will likely not be supporting him, I should imagine.

I don’t think for a minute that Trump could implement, realistically, even half of what he is claiming but the fact that he is stating this at all and that people are backing him is terribly worrying for democracy. If his views were actually implemented, they would represent the complete inversion of the liberal (in the classical Lockean sense) constitutional republic found in the Declaration of Independence.

 

[Vouthon]

Trump is NOT talking about internment camps.

But Trump also insisted that he is not proposing “internment camps” like those that held Japanese Americans during World War II.
“We’re not talking about internment. This is a whole different thing,”

nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-defends-muslim-ban-common-sense-n476086

Trump stated:

The Republican presidential candidate said what he is proposing is “no different” to the actions of president Franklin Roosevelt, “who was highly respected by all” despite his wartime measures that included putting Japanese-Americans in internment camps in the US.

So in other words, he thinks that FDR’s actions were legitimate. Sorry Donald but they weren’t and neither are yours. We can and should support FDR’s war ideals but his domestic order to intern Japanese Americans was shocking for a liberal democracy, as with similar measures brought in by Britain and other allied countries.

He justifies his unjustifiable proposals by comparing them favourably to a totally unjustifiable historical decision.

 

[gilliam]

Trump stated:

So in other words, he thinks that FDR’s actions were legitimate. Sorry Donald but they weren’t and neither are yours. We can and should support FDR’s war ideals but his domestic order to intern Japanese Americans was shocking for a liberal democracy, as with similar measures brought in by Britain and other allied countries.

He justifies his unjustifiable proposals by comparing them favourably to a totally unjustifiable historical decision.

Trump has stated that he is not proposing interment camps. And today he said US citizens who go abroad on vacation can return.

I know he is shooting from the hip, but we shouldn’t respond with knee jerk reactions either.

 

[Vouthon]

What I do know is that Trump has given ISIS, Islamists and believers in Political Islam the world over excellent propaganda material.

 

[Vouthon]

Trump has stated that he is not proposing interment camps. And today he said US citizens who go abroad on vacation can return.

I know he is shooting from the hip, but we shouldn’t respond with knee jerk reactions either.

Well, I am glad he has moderated his statement regarding tourists but come on, the very fact that he is even having to say that US citizens “can” return from a vacation…I mean, to think their liberty in that regard could theoretically be curtailed and that a viable presidential candidate could even be seen to suggest such…It’s entirely ludicrous.

I apologize if I’m being knee-jerk but I doubt I’m the only one. The British media is agog and open-mouthed about this yet again. David Cameron has even weighed in:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35037553

**David Cameron criticises Donald Trump ‘Muslim ban’ call

David Cameron regards comments made by US presidential hopeful Donald Trump as “divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong”, Downing Street has said.

Mr Trump called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States following a mass shooting in San Bernadino.

A Muslim couple, believed to have been radicalised, killed 14 people at a health centre.
The prime minister’s official spokeswoman said Mr Cameron “completely disagrees with Donald Trump”.

British prime ministers normally avoid commenting on contenders in the US presidential race**.

 

[Tbrightson]

Immigration is not a fundamental personal right.

Exactly. Given the current situation, a ban on entry seems reasonable.

 

[gilliam]

The British media is agog and open-mouthed about this yet again. David Cameron has even weighed in:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35037553

I don’t think most US citizens care

 

[SHANTARAM]

What I do know is that Trump has given ISIS, Islamists and believers in Political Islam the world over excellent propaganda material.

We must be nice and charitable and let Muslims into our country or else they’ll use it against us and kill us.

 

[Vouthon]

I don’t think most US citizens care

Why not? This man is running a campaign to be the Republican candidate for the presidency and has apparently had high poll ratings. I should think everyone on the planet should care since if he ever did get close (impossible as I hope it is) to the top job, everyone would be impacted by his decision-making, first of all among them being Americans themselves, perish the thought.

 

[Vouthon]

We must be nice and charitable and let Muslims into our country or else they’ll use it against us and kill us.

I’m not even going to write a meaningful response to this statement.

The threat of terrorism should not force us to abandon our cherished values. We do not rise to the challenge by losing who we are.

 

[Vouthon]

Agreed.

I cannot imagine the vast bulk of the populace voting for him on election day but those polls have worried me. Let’s hope it is just “protest voting” and that they’ll all get over it in the end and go for a more sensible, mainstream candidate.

If not, then I’d get pretty scared.