Donald Trump Presidential Campaign Thread

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So do you think there is something wrong with pointing out when someone makes racist, misogynistic or other offensive kinds of statements? Trump has the freedom of speech to be as offensive as he wants, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong in believing that anyone who says these kinds of things is not fit to be president.
Trump employs more women executives than men. Has done so for years. Why? Why does his daughter defend him? How did she come out so well? Why do women who have had previous relationships with him thwart the New York Times? I am aware that Trump has said really horrible, offensive things about women - I am not convinced he is a misogynist, based on all of the evidence. In fact, I think to conclude that takes a deliberate leap of faith.

Likewise, I don’t believe he is a racist. He is crude and willing to fight dirty to take his opponents down - nothing is off the table and you can’t shut him up. It is a strategy that has served him well, and continues to. It is not personal - against anyone. Again, Trump’s comments about Hispanics and blacks and women make me want to crawl under a rug. I don’t think they’re cool or “telling it like it is.” I think it is Trump being a jerk - but not David Duke. Trump doesn’t have time or the interest or the disposition to develop a system or philosophy of hate toward anyone.

I will say this - he gives people such as yourself (people on the left I mean), great gifts in this way. But the furor, and frankly, monotony of the “sexist, racist” bigot attack gets really old - it is incredibly limited and in the end untrue. And it may very well be past its sell by date for those who don’t drink the KoolAid.
 
Trump employs more women executives than men. Has done so for years. Why? Why does his daughter defend him? How did she come out so well? Why do women who have had previous relationships with him thwart the New York Times? I am aware that Trump has said really horrible, offensive things about women - I am not convinced he is a misogynist, based on all of the evidence. In fact, I think to conclude that takes a deliberate leap of faith.

Likewise, I don’t believe he is a racist. He is crude and willing to fight dirty to take his opponents down - nothing is off the table and you can’t shut him up. It is a strategy that has served him well, and continues to. It is not personal - against anyone. Again, Trump’s comments about Hispanics and blacks and women make me want to crawl under a rug. I don’t think they’re cool or “telling it like it is.” I think it is Trump being a jerk - but not David Duke. Trump doesn’t have time or the interest or the disposition to develop a system or philosophy of hate toward anyone.

I will say this - he gives people such as yourself (people on the left I mean), great gifts in this way. But the furor, and frankly, monotony of the “sexist, racist” bigot attack gets really old - it is incredibly limited and in the end untrue. And it may very well be past its sell by date for those who don’t drink the KoolAid.
Exceptionally well said.
 
Wow , how quick conservatives leave their people.
The fact is, the leaders of the GOP, left conservatism over the past two decades. No conservative thinks Paul Ryan, Jeb, or Mitt are conservatives. They are very moderate republicans it not starting to enter into being moderate liberals.
 
She would not be close to the nomination without the Votes of the House of Lords. 15% of the desolates in the Democrat party are handed out to the Party elite-basically thwy have the last say on any nominee. But then of course the core of liberalism is that people are too stupid to know what is best for them. They need the elite to make the decisions for them
Careful. I wouldn’t get too close to calling those who believe in liberalism, “stupid”.
 
Careful. I wouldn’t get too close to calling those who believe in liberalism, “stupid”.
Is that anything like being called a “racist” if one is a Republican or supports Trump?
 
I don’t know that theres a box you can put social conservative in either. I do think in the US there are a handful of core principles. I think social progressivism is also a ill advised label. I’m progressive for example with migrants. I mean how long are the dem and rep going to allow these families to aimlessly travel this country for slave labor dying early with entire families living off 15G a year…etc? So I say I can be both progressive and conservative. Obviously I don’t think killing children is either, its just wrong period not progressive or conservative but may be associated as a core principle. And if we don’t stop it then who?

I think we have to many labels, like racist, terribly abused like calling wolf. I do think the social democrats have become the bearers of double standards.
 
Is that anything like being called a “racist” if one is a Republican or supports Trump?
At the very least, he says racist things. Whether or not he is an actual racist or saying racist things because they gain him a political and business advantage is unknown. That said, I don’t think there can be any doubt that he is trying to draw in voters, so I would guess that the people he are trying to get to come out and vote for him by saying the things he does are racists. That doesn’t mean all his supporters are racists. It’s just the group he’s trying to appeal to at the moment.
 
At the very least, he says racist things. Whether or not he is an actual racist or saying racist things because they gain him a political and business advantage is unknown.
Maybe he hasn’t received the democrat PC memo of banished words on the list. Imho he is just being a nuisance with the Obama arguments of the past 7-years. You would think at any moment a period of growth would start by both parties. But nope we have to hear the rhetoric of both sides with mud wallowing. My only question is when will everyone wake-up and realize how dangerously divisive all this is and work together to reject it. Its coming out of left field just like systemic racism and the idea of jury of peers and fair trial etc? We are all gonna have to accept that means “americans”. Thats the bigger point but still I have my doubts about the entire Trump approach here. Bad taste I would say.
 
Trump employs more women executives than men. Has done so for years. Why? Why does his daughter defend him? How did she come out so well? Why do women who have had previous relationships with him thwart the New York Times? I am aware that Trump has said really horrible, offensive things about women - I am not convinced he is a misogynist, based on all of the evidence. In fact, I think to conclude that takes a deliberate leap of faith.

Likewise, I don’t believe he is a racist. He is crude and willing to fight dirty to take his opponents down - nothing is off the table and you can’t shut him up. It is a strategy that has served him well, and continues to. It is not personal - against anyone. Again, Trump’s comments about Hispanics and blacks and women make me want to crawl under a rug. I don’t think they’re cool or “telling it like it is.” I think it is Trump being a jerk - but not David Duke. Trump doesn’t have time or the interest or the disposition to develop a system or philosophy of hate toward anyone.

I will say this - he gives people such as yourself (people on the left I mean), great gifts in this way. But the furor, and frankly, monotony of the “sexist, racist” bigot attack gets really old - it is incredibly limited and in the end untrue. And it may very well be past its sell by date for those who don’t drink the KoolAid.
But don’t you find it odd, to say the least, that Trump’s supporters defend him by saying that he is lying about his real views? It seems that, for many (most?), supporting Trump means believing he is misrepresenting himself in some very basic ways.
 
Trump employs more women executives than men. Has done so for years. Why? Why does his daughter defend him? How did she come out so well? Why do women who have had previous relationships with him thwart the New York Times? I am aware that Trump has said really horrible, offensive things about women - I am not convinced he is a misogynist, based on all of the evidence. In fact, I think to conclude that takes a deliberate leap of faith.

Likewise, I don’t believe he is a racist. He is crude and willing to fight dirty to take his opponents down - nothing is off the table and you can’t shut him up. It is a strategy that has served him well, and continues to. It is not personal - against anyone. Again, Trump’s comments about Hispanics and blacks and women make me want to crawl under a rug. I don’t think they’re cool or “telling it like it is.” I think it is Trump being a jerk - but not David Duke. Trump doesn’t have time or the interest or the disposition to develop a system or philosophy of hate toward anyone.

I will say this - he gives people such as yourself (people on the left I mean), great gifts in this way. But the furor, and frankly, monotony of the “sexist, racist” bigot attack gets really old - it is incredibly limited and in the end untrue. And it may very well be past its sell by date for those who don’t drink the KoolAid.
Personally, I think that anyone who talks about women and Mexicans and Muslims the way Trump does probably is a little misogynistic and racist. It might not rise to a David Duke level of racism, for example, and be as blatant and unconcealed, but it’s probably there nonetheless. A lot of people are probably more racist than they realize and think they are. A white person who crosses the street to steer clear of a black person they meet on the sidewalk at night because they think in the back of their mind that this black person might be a criminal based on nothing but their skin color but don’t do the same with a white person are probably a little racist even if they don’t want to admit it.
 
At the very least, he says racist things. Whether or not he is an actual racist or saying racist things because they gain him a political and business advantage is unknown. That said, I don’t think there can be any doubt that he is trying to draw in voters, so I would guess that the people he are trying to get to come out and vote for him by saying the things he does are racists. That doesn’t mean all his supporters are racists. It’s just the group he’s trying to appeal to at the moment.
I think it’s more that he is just pissed off at someone (pardon my vulgarity but we are talking about Trump here). He wants to undercut them in every way possible - he doesn’t seem to have a politically correct filter whatsoever. If he is mad at a German, he calls him/her a Nazi,
if he is mad at an Irishman, he calls him a lazy drunk, possibly a Catholic. If he is mad at a woman, he says she is on her period and a bimbo. If he is mad at a judge he says it is because the guy is Mexican and therefore against him because of his stance on illegal immigration. Marco Rubio has big ears; Carly Fiorina is ugly.

I don’t think anyone is trying argue Trump is good at diplomacy or subtle argumentation. But it is equally tenuous to accuse him of real racism or sexism. I guess the even better argument is that he is a loose cannon - so he should not be in the White House. Hot head, finger on the nuke button. Trump just does this as a strategy to take out his opponents; he is not out of control as he does it. It’s a mind game. JFK - Bay of Pigs.

Power and politics are often nasty and contentious. I don’t think this no holds barred kind of warfare eliminates him as a candidate for the White House, especially when compared to Hillary Clinton, whom I don’t see as particularly well-qualified or skilled as a diplomat either.

I also believe as a country and in the West in general, we have become hypersensitive with respect to political correctness - we are so afraid to speak our mind or to even make a joke that is out of line. This mentality closes minds - it doesn’t open them. And it doesn’t change people’s hearts; it creates superficial conformism. I would like to see us move past this, once again have more freedom in our discourse and thinking. This would help us honestly discuss the problems facing the country, social, moral, cultural, economic, everything.
 
Maybe he hasn’t received the democrat PC memo of banished words on the list. Imho he is just being a nuisance with the Obama arguments of the past 7-years. You would think at any moment a period of growth would start by both parties. But nope we have to hear the rhetoric of both sides with mud wallowing. My only question is when will everyone wake-up and realize how dangerously divisive all this is and work together to reject it. Its coming out of left field just like systemic racism and the idea of jury of peers and fair trial etc? We are all gonna have to accept that means “americans”. Thats the bigger point but still I have my doubts about the entire Trump approach here. Bad taste I would say.
Sure, the problem is both sides when it’s Trump that’s doing all the racist comments.
 
Whether or not he’s sexist in the business world, I’m surprised he has a lot of support on CAF considering his history with women in his personal life: three marriages, affairs, divorces…I know we’re not electing a pope, but…
 
Most of the time what we’re really talking about when we say something’s “racist” or "misogynistic or “misanthropic”, for that matter, is really just defying conventions. There are simply things that have achieved a level of “official” unacceptability because someone (usually some kind of elite or other) has declared it so often that people take it for granted.

I recall reading, for example, that at one time it was “conventionally unacceptable” to refer to a woman’s leg as a “leg”. One had to say “limb” or one was thought vulgar and disrespectful. Stranger still, it was once the fashion to cover table legs, it being thought vulgar not to do it. But likely the majority continued to say “leg” all the same unless they were in a context that required they conform to convention.

Some of us of a certain age (and white) went from the “N” word to “Darky” to “Negro” to “Black” to “Afro American” to “African American” in all innocence and all in one generation, because it was the convention and it took awhile to decide what the convention was to be. Might change again. Blacks, on the other hand, throw the “N” word around with abandon because the convention regarding it is not deemed to apply to them.

Perhaps fifty years from now, upon reading old books or viewing ancient films, people will wonder why in the world there were so many people from India in the Old West, the former use of the word “Indian” having been obliterated by convention.

When it comes to “misogynist” terms, the convention is that nobody can refer to a woman’s appearance or body parts publicly, notwithstanding that they’re pervasive in ordinary conversation that a lot of “misanthropic” equivalents are a commonplace even in public discourse and without a fair number of users even knowing their origin.

When it comes to “bigotry”, I daresay nobody is immune from it. It can be positive as well as negative, but bigotry is bigotry. I recall, upon joining the college Glee Club expecting that a black member would have a good voice. I was astonished when I heard him sing and learned that he absolutely did not. That was a benign sort of bigotry, but it was still bigotry in the sense of a prejudgment about someone simply based on his race.

But true racism is what we intend and what we do. There are, in my opinion, few real racists in this society, but there are a lot of bigots. Sometimes it’s very mild, as with the glee club member, and sometimes it’s serious as in assuming a woman can’t be a good CPA just because she’s a woman, and refusing to use her services based solely on that.

Sometimes certain kinds of bigotry are justified. Should I be more concerned for my safety in walking through parts of North County in St. Louis at night than I would be walking around on “The Hill”? Absolutely, and it’s exactly because bigotry (prejudgment) protects me in those cases. North County is black and as a white person I would be in peril walking around there at night, whereas “The Hill” is Italian and (some say, probably rightly) that the Mob keeps the peace there in order to protect the restaurants and bars under their protection.
 
Most of the time what we’re really talking about when we say something’s “racist” or "misogynistic or “misanthropic”, for that matter, is really just defying conventions. There are simply things that have achieved a level of “official” unacceptability because someone (usually some kind of elite or other) has declared it so often that people take it for granted.

I recall reading, for example, that at one time it was “conventionally unacceptable” to refer to a woman’s leg as a “leg”. One had to say “limb” or one was thought vulgar and disrespectful. Stranger still, it was once the fashion to cover table legs, it being thought vulgar not to do it. But likely the majority continued to say “leg” all the same unless they were in a context that required they conform to convention.

Some of us of a certain age (and white) went from the “N” word to “Darky” to “Negro” to “Black” to “Afro American” to “African American” in all innocence and all in one generation, because it was the convention and it took awhile to decide what the convention was to be. Might change again. Blacks, on the other hand, throw the “N” word around with abandon because the convention regarding it is not deemed to apply to them.

Perhaps fifty years from now, upon reading old books or viewing ancient films, people will wonder why in the world there were so many people from India in the Old West, the former use of the word “Indian” having been obliterated by convention.

When it comes to “misogynist” terms, the convention is that nobody can refer to a woman’s appearance or body parts publicly, notwithstanding that they’re pervasive in ordinary conversation that a lot of “misanthropic” equivalents are a commonplace even in public discourse and without a fair number of users even knowing their origin.

When it comes to “bigotry”, I daresay nobody is immune from it. It can be positive as well as negative, but bigotry is bigotry. I recall, upon joining the college Glee Club expecting that a black member would have a good voice. I was astonished when I heard him sing and learned that he absolutely did not. That was a benign sort of bigotry, but it was still bigotry in the sense of a prejudgment about someone simply based on his race.

But true racism is what we intend and what we do. There are, in my opinion, few real racists in this society, but there are a lot of bigots. Sometimes it’s very mild, as with the glee club member, and sometimes it’s serious as in assuming a woman can’t be a good CPA just because she’s a woman, and refusing to use her services based solely on that.

Sometimes certain kinds of bigotry are justified. Should I be more concerned for my safety in walking through parts of North County in St. Louis at night than I would be walking around on “The Hill”? Absolutely, and it’s exactly because bigotry (prejudgment) protects me in those cases. North County is black and as a white person I would be in peril walking around there at night, whereas “The Hill” is Italian and (some say, probably rightly) that the Mob keeps the peace there in order to protect the restaurants and bars under their protection.
We have gotten to the "boy who cried wolf "stage with these terms. We can’t even distinguish between the wild charges made at everyone left and right and the real thing. The irony is if we undercut the prevalence of this nonsense in our culture, the real offenders will stand out like sore thumbs.
 
Most of the time what we’re really talking about when we say something’s “racist” or "misogynistic or “misanthropic”, for that matter, is really just defying conventions. There are simply things that have achieved a level of “official” unacceptability because someone (usually some kind of elite or other) has declared it so often that people take it for granted.

I recall reading, for example, that at one time it was “conventionally unacceptable” to refer to a woman’s leg as a “leg”. One had to say “limb” or one was thought vulgar and disrespectful. Stranger still, it was once the fashion to cover table legs, it being thought vulgar not to do it. But likely the majority continued to say “leg” all the same unless they were in a context that required they conform to convention.

Some of us of a certain age (and white) went from the “N” word to “Darky” to “Negro” to “Black” to “Afro American” to “African American” in all innocence and all in one generation, because it was the convention and it took awhile to decide what the convention was to be. Might change again. Blacks, on the other hand, throw the “N” word around with abandon because the convention regarding it is not deemed to apply to them.

Perhaps fifty years from now, upon reading old books or viewing ancient films, people will wonder why in the world there were so many people from India in the Old West, the former use of the word “Indian” having been obliterated by convention.

When it comes to “misogynist” terms, the convention is that nobody can refer to a woman’s appearance or body parts publicly, notwithstanding that they’re pervasive in ordinary conversation that a lot of “misanthropic” equivalents are a commonplace even in public discourse and without a fair number of users even knowing their origin.

When it comes to “bigotry”, I daresay nobody is immune from it. It can be positive as well as negative, but bigotry is bigotry. I recall, upon joining the college Glee Club expecting that a black member would have a good voice. I was astonished when I heard him sing and learned that he absolutely did not. That was a benign sort of bigotry, but it was still bigotry in the sense of a prejudgment about someone simply based on his race.

But true racism is what we intend and what we do. There are, in my opinion, few real racists in this society, but there are a lot of bigots. Sometimes it’s very mild, as with the glee club member, and sometimes it’s serious as in assuming a woman can’t be a good CPA just because she’s a woman, and refusing to use her services based solely on that.

Sometimes certain kinds of bigotry are justified. Should I be more concerned for my safety in walking through parts of North County in St. Louis at night than I would be walking around on “The Hill”? Absolutely, and it’s exactly because bigotry (prejudgment) protects me in those cases. North County is black and as a white person I would be in peril walking around there at night, whereas “The Hill” is Italian and (some say, probably rightly) that the Mob keeps the peace there in order to protect the restaurants and bars under their protection.
I’m sure that saying that someone who is Hispanic cannot be a judge over his case because he might be bias because he is Hispanic is racism. But we’ll keep raising the bar so that unless he starts using racial epitaphs, he isn’t be racist.
 
I’m sure that saying that someone who is Hispanic cannot be a judge over his case because he might be bias because he is Hispanic is racism. But we’ll keep raising the bar so that unless he starts using racial epitaphs, he isn’t be racist.
Careful with the terms - Hispanics are Caucasians. 🙂 (there is increasingly sloppiness and inattention to detail in the slander of others with this stuff)
 
I’m sure that saying that someone who is Hispanic cannot be a judge over his case because he might be bias because he is Hispanic is racism. But we’ll keep raising the bar so that unless he starts using racial epitaphs, he isn’t be racist.
I don’t think Trump said it at all well, but I think he has reason to question the impartiality of this judge.

I’ll admit I’m probably spoiled by the fact that in my state judges are not supposed to engage in politics at all, other than their own re-election campaigns. They have to be very careful in avoiding even the appearance of it. That’s the rule so they wouldn’t be questioned as to politically-based biases. Also, in my state, you can disqualify one judge just because you want to, without giving any reason for it. You can’t do that with federal judges. If you want to disqualify one of them, you have to ask them to disqualify and state your reasons. If the federal judge doesn’t do it, you have criticized him without having any remedy at all.

It’s very common for judges who don’t want a biased jury to keep evidence sealed until trial. In this case, there was no good reason for the judge to release it to the public, but he did, despite Trump’s lawyers asking him not to do it. And he did it even though he, himself declared the testimony of the initiating plaintiff unworthy of belief.

Once Judge Curiel released all of the unproven allegations against Trump, that posed two problems for Trump. One is that it will provide campaign material for Hillary Clinton which will undoubtedly be used as if it was undeniably true. The bigger problem ultimately is that the political use of it will make it hard to find an unbiased jury that hasn’t seen any of the spin the Clinton campaign will put on the unproven allegations, including the ones the judge determined unworthy of belief.

There’s not much Trump can do about either problem other than discount it in some way and in advance. So, Trump, as he is wont to do, decided to get out in front of it. I’m not saying he did it well, but that’s what he does when he sees what’s ahead of him in the campaign.
 
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